Questions answered and answered and ....

[Cloggy]

Just wanted to lift this part out of another topic.
Mookie asked me some questions, and I think the flow of the conversation can be very informative.

Questions by Mookie,
Answers by Cloggy,
Mookie again,
Cloggy replying

How does gesture work for you to understand? Can regular people understand gestures even thought they never learnt about deaf culture?
No answer?
I missed it... (I'm sure you and your friend will think of a nice remark on that...) Yes

Facial expression? "Everyone uses these. With ASL more than speech only"
Come on, Cloggy. Don't you forgotton the opera singers use their facial expression? I watched the facial expression of the actors quoting from william shakespeare play on TV program. Why do you blame whole deafie about using facial expression? I think you have forgotten that your own child with CI does have facial expression. You need to see yours in mirror....Uh, didn't I say everyone uses it? When I learned sign, I had to get used to using MORE facial expression.

Body language? "Everyone uses these. With ASL more than speech only"
Don't you ever see any professional athletes, coaches, and umpires do their own body language? Time out? Foul? "Go that way"? Why do you assume about using ASL more than speech? Did your boss shows his/her finger that one? Come on, Cloggy. You can do better than that. I thought you only speak several languages?Again, didn't I say EVERYONE uses it? Is it your reading skills - or your understanding skills that are lacking?

What is differenet between sign language and oralism? Sign language is a language, Oralism is a method
Come on, Cloggy...don't you know that oralism method allow to use fingerspelling?I know... What's wrong with my answer

Would CI people accept hearing impaired status? If they do not accept HI status, are they losing their identify in deaf culture/deaf soceity? They do. Read the topics and posts of Neecy, R2D2, etc. And if they were connected to Deaf culture. They remain so. It happens that Deaf culture rejects them!
So what. There are so small number of CI people espeically Neecy and R2D2 to accept deaf culture/deaf society. Don't you know that there are lots of people with CI who lost their hearing in their late adult that they do not bother to accept the deaf status. Naturally, there are high percentage in that category. Cloggy, I am gladly that you are with deaf society. But you have forgotten that there are others with CI do not get along with deafies...There's a difference between "getting along with deafies" and "being with deaf society". I'll leave it to someone else to explain... (again)


Why would CI society enjoy getting free CC on tv or using Internet relay service that they do not want to be misunderstood commmuniation? Because when I watch norwegian television, I enjoy subtitles on english films. When communication is not 100% in one language, then CC wil help.
Oh boy, you are a hearie. Maybe you have not found any people with CI in your area.You see, there is something wrong with your memory. Just 1 minute before you wrote this, you mentioned my daughter with CI... "Is there a doctor in this messageboard?"

How comes CI society does not get along with deafies with ASL? Are they ingoring them so that they could climb rapidly in their careers? They do. From what I have read in the topics it's Deaf culture that rejects people that choose for CI. Plenty of examples here, but I guess you reject these.
How do you know if I reject? I do not need CI for the rest of my own life so it is my choice.
I have met some people with CI and I have not provided them any negatives...You see, you have reading and understanding problems.... I said "I guess" which is totally different from "I know". Ask your buddy sitting next to you.... if that would help.



Cloggy, I do not think you have much to explain whole Deaf Culture/Society....
Still need more...I'm sure....

To be continued.. I'm sure.

 

[neecy]

Who is having a heartattack? I will wait for your response while performing CPR on your keyboard.
Come on, Cloggy. How do you know if people with CI depend on CC? I thought they do not need CC anymore.

I have a CI and yes I still depend on CC. Why? Because there are many instances where a CI doesn't pick up everything. Background music, environmental sounds overpowering what somebody is saying, etc. Hearing somebody in person is very different from hearing somebody on TV. It requires much more concentration and sometimes speech moves so fast you can't follow. In addition there are often things said by people "offscreen" which can make following a conversation on the TV confusing. There are some shows I am able to watch without closed captioning - but those are usually news programs or shows narrated by one or 2 people who speak clearly. Even I recognize there are limitations to CI's. They're not perfect - and each person will have their own benefits/limitations.

 

[deafdyke]

neecy, ditto!!!! CIs and hearing aids DO NOT generally allow for 100% access to hearing society. That is why people with it should learn other tools, for the times when hearing assistance is inssufuicent!

 

[Cloggy]

Mookie is still not satisfied with the answers...

Thanks Neecy for your reply above.
Mookie hadn't replied in this topic so I'll do that for him. Your post is an answer to one of his remarks

As I expected, the story continues. I've taken the liberty of highlighting the new remarks.....
(And for those who don't know - like me a week ago - "258" means "very interesting". Why that is used like that - I don't know.)

Questions by Mookie,
Answers by Cloggy
Reply by Mookie
Reply by Cloggy
Reply by Mookie

How does gesture work for you to understand? Can regular people understand gestures even thought they never learnt about deaf culture?
No answer?
I missed it... (I'm sure you and your friend will think of a nice remark on that...) Yes
I thought you are the expert in hearing world. Do any babies develop gesture before the spoken language? Come on, what's matter with your IQ?

Facial expression?
"Everyone uses these. With ASL more than speech only"
Come on, Cloggy. Don't you forgotton the opera singers use their facial expression? I watched the facial expression of the actors quoting from william shakespeare play on TV program. Why do you blame whole deafie about using facial expression? I think you have forgotten that your own child with CI does have facial expression. You need to see yours in mirror....
Uh, didn't I say everyone uses it? When I learned sign, I had to get used to using MORE facial expression.
Really?...you need to use more facial expression with your kid. 258, I wonder why people with CI easily cheat for recognizing any hearie's facial expression. Isn't that a part of deaf culture? If so, it is a part of ASL?

Body language?
"Everyone uses these. With ASL more than speech only"
Don't you ever see any professional athletes, coaches, and umpires do their own body language? Time out? Foul? "Go that way"? Why do you assume about using ASL more than speech? Did your boss shows his/her finger that one? Come on, Cloggy. You can do better than that. I thought you only speak several languages?
Again, didn't I say EVERYONE uses it? Is it your reading skills - or your understanding skills that are lacking?
No, you already wrote your own fragment clause which that you broke the English grammer rule. See your first answer. Quit the freking blaming me for misunderstanding.

What is differenet between sign language and oralism?
Sign language is a language, Oralism is a method
Come on, Cloggy...don't you know that oralism method allow to use fingerspelling?
I know... What's wrong with my answer
If you already knew, why are you so lazy to input? What is different between frog and fuck?

Would CI people accept hearing impaired status?
If they do not accept HI status, are they losing their identify in deaf culture/deaf soceity? They do. Read the topics and posts of Neecy, R2D2, etc. And if they were connected to Deaf culture. They remain so. It happens that Deaf culture rejects them!
So what. There are so small number of CI people espeically Neecy and R2D2 to accept deaf culture/deaf society. Don't you know that there are lots of people with CI who lost their hearing in their late adult that they do not bother to accept the deaf status. Naturally, there are high percentage in that category. Cloggy, I am gladly that you are with deaf society. But you have forgotten that there are others with CI do not get along with deafies...
There's a difference between "getting along with deafies" and "being with deaf society". I'll leave it to someone else to explain... (again)
Oh I see, you like to flame whole deafies with ASL who doe not want to accept CI. Deal with it.


Why would CI society enjoy getting free CC on tv or using Internet relay service that they do not want to be misunderstood commmuniation?
Because when I watch norwegian television, I enjoy subtitles on english films. When communication is not 100% in one language, then CC wil help.
Oh boy, you are a hearie. Maybe you have not found any people with CI in your area.
You see, there is something wrong with your memory. Just 1 minute before you wrote this, you mentioned my daughter with CI... "Is there a doctor in this messageboard?"
Who is having a heartattack? I will wait for your response while performing CPR on your keyboard.
Come on, Cloggy. How do you know if people with CI depend on CC? I thought they do not need CC anymore.

How comes CI society does not get along with deafies with ASL? Are they ingoring them so that they could climb rapidly in their careers?
They do. From what I have read in the topics it's Deaf culture that rejects people that choose for CI. Plenty of examples here, but I guess you reject these.
How do you know if I reject? I do not need CI for the rest of my own life so it is my choice.
I have met some people with CI and I have not provided them any negatives...You see, you have reading and understanding problems....
I said "I guess" which is totally different from "I know". Ask your buddy sitting next to you.... if that would help.
Whose buddy am I sitting? There is no buddy who would advise me to inquire you. How was your buddy while you were PMing recently? Just me and you with others. Don't forget to thank your wrestling partner.



Cloggy, I do not think you have much to explain whole Deaf Culture/Society....
Still need more...
Hello Cloggy, still need more...

Now.... as there's no doctor in the house... I'll just wait for the sedative to kick in....
(Or perhaps I'm so lost that I have to gather all my buddies and regroup.... )

 

[ismi]

Even I recognize there are limitations to CI's. They're not perfect - and each person will have their own benefits/limitations.

The irony is that Mookie's question was the exact opposite of what he and the others have been claiming (that CI's aren't perfect, and you and others have been claiming they are).

 

[sr171soars]

My spin on two of mookie's CI questions...

...
Would CI people accept hearing impaired status? If they do not accept HI status, are they losing their identify in deaf culture/deaf soceity? (again)

I had no problem accepting my former status as HI (always was HOH) and now as truly deaf due to CI. I don't see the big deal here. It is kind of difficult to ignore. Put another way, one is reminded of this every day of one's life. It is just another hurdle to overcome when you are living in the hearing world. After doing it so long, it is second nature to me and I don't think about it anymore. Funny for me, my CI actually removed many of the hurdles. Which brings up my point...I have always been in the hearing society and I used HAs and now CI to allow me to stay in it (where I'm most comfortable). I have really no clue what it is really like in deaf society. Hence my involvement with AD. I have so far found out that you have nice decent people and idiots just like hearing society. The whole gamet of humanity...

I do agree there is a difference between being in deaf society and getting along with deafies. I'm in the later category as I never have been in deaf society. This is simply because I gravitated to the hearing world from a very young age and I was able to more or less do things on their terms.

Why would CI society enjoy getting free CC on tv or using Internet relay service that they do not want to be misunderstood commmuniation?

I pretty much can watch TV without CC. Here and there I might miss something. *Shrugs* Not a big issue with me. About the only time I use it is when my CI is off like just before bedtime or first thing in morning before putting it on.

 

[neecy]

The irony is that Mookie's question was the exact opposite of what he and the others have been claiming (that CI's aren't perfect, and you and others have been claiming they are).

And yet I've never said they're perfect. I WILL say I'm perfectly happy with my CI but there are still instances where I have to ask some people to repeat things sometimes, or I miss something that's being said. I still use closed captioning. Its NOT perfect hearing but it does come closer than anything I've known since going deaf. I think the best way to explain is its the "most perfect solution available" (FOR ME - and possibly for others - I won't make that statement for them though) until newer technology is available

 

[neecy]

Would CI people accept hearing impaired status?

I am deaf. I still consider myself deaf. When I take off my CI...I'm *gasp* DEAF!!!!

When I introduce myself to new people I tell them "I am deaf, but with a CI I can understand most speech, though sometimes it takes a bit of time to get used to the way some people speak." That seems to make everybody happy and doesn't give the impression that I'm now a "perfectly normal hearing person." Because I'm not a hearing person. I'm a DEAF PERSON WITH A CI.

 

[Gemtun]

I can actually understand TV without watching CC but I prefer to watch it with CC....just because I want to RELAX while watching my favorite shows. I dont want to strain and listen hard while watching my shows.

I have gone to films without open captions and films with open captions. I prefer these with open captions because I can literally sit back and relax, while watching movies.

Listening is not natural to me - despite it being there for me. For me, it takes work because my brain is not used to listening. For decades, I was trained to lipread.

When I got a CI, I was forced to listen, not lipread so it is a challenge for me but am working on it

 

[neecy]

I can actually understand TV without watching CC but I prefer to watch it with CC....just because I want to RELAX while watching my favorite shows. I dont want to strain and listen hard while watching my shows.

I have gone to films without open captions and films with open captions. I prefer these with open captions because I can literally sit back and relax, while watching movies.

Listening is not natural to me - despite it being there for me. For me, it takes work because my brain is not used to listening. For decades, I was trained to lipread.

When I got a CI, I was forced to listen, not lipread so it is a challenge for me but am working on it

I know exactly where you are coming from! A lot of people here don't seem to realize that hearing with a CI sometimes requires *TREMENDOUS* amounts of concentration. It can be exhausting in some situations. Especially if you never have "learned" to really focus on listening before. Even I, who could hear for the first 9 years of my life, find focusing intently on understanding what is being said on tv or radio tiring sometimes.

Speaking to people in person is much easier, as we naturally have learned to look for visual cues (body language, ) and I still rely on lipreading to a degree, but whereas with my hearing aids it was 90% lipreading to 10% sound, now its the opposite with my CI.

 

[R2D2]

I can actually understand TV without watching CC but I prefer to watch it with CC....just because I want to RELAX while watching my favorite shows. I dont want to strain and listen hard while watching my shows.

I have gone to films without open captions and films with open captions. I prefer these with open captions because I can literally sit back and relax, while watching movies.

Listening is not natural to me - despite it being there for me. For me, it takes work because my brain is not used to listening. For decades, I was trained to lipread.

When I got a CI, I was forced to listen, not lipread so it is a challenge for me but am working on it

Even when I did well with hearing aids I used to prefer to watch a movie without the sound and with captions on. Always in PJs and after a nice relaxing bath.

Also some of my hearing friends and even my hearing husband actually like having the captions on and they say that they find themselves reading it rather than listening. So I get the impression that captions are just easier all around.

I'm not expecting to be able to understand movies without captions with my CI but if I do it would be a bonus. It would be nice to get dolled up, go out to the movie theatre with my husband and have a night out.

 

[neecy]

.
I'm not expecting to be able to understand movies without captions with my CI but if I do it would be a bonus. It would be nice to get dolled up, go out to the movie theatre with my husband and have a night out.

I've gone to see just one movie since my CI was activated (only one I was really interested in - I'm not a huge movie-goer) and that was The Revenge of the Sith. I was able to understand a good portion of the dialogue but not all, and one of the reasons was surprising - because theaters use "surround sound", I found it to sometimes be confusing because even when there was dialogue there would be background music or other environmental sounds - I never really realized that and it made it harder to understand what was being said. I guess it would depend on the genre of the movie too (being that this was an action movie there was a LOT of background noise/explosions that kind of stuff).

A drama/romance or even a comedy might be easier to understand. I'm thinking of going to see The DaVinci Code this weekend.

 

[Cloggy]

I know exactly where you are coming from! A lot of people here don't seem to realize that hearing with a CI sometimes requires *TREMENDOUS* amounts of concentration. It can be exhausting in some situations. ........

"Funny" to hear that.
Because, I have that in a way with speaking Norwegian.
Dutch and Engligh, I can sit at a table and overhear a conversation. Not with Norwegian when I'm tired. I have to focus and strain to keep understanding. So normally I just block it out.
Same with TV. English, I don't need caption. In fact, the translation is sometimes so poor that I don't want it. (For example, sometime the caption was gone and I didn't notice...)
But Norwegian programs, I just turn them off when I'm tired.

I'm sure it's even harder with CI, but in a way it seems to be a natural thing when learning a new language.

 

[sr171soars]

I know exactly where you are coming from! A lot of people here don't seem to realize that hearing with a CI sometimes requires *TREMENDOUS* amounts of concentration. It can be exhausting in some situations. Especially if you never have "learned" to really focus on listening before. Even I, who could hear for the first 9 years of my life, find focusing intently on understanding what is being said on tv or radio tiring sometimes.

Speaking to people in person is much easier, as we naturally have learned to look for visual cues (body language, ) and I still rely on lipreading to a degree, but whereas with my hearing aids it was 90% lipreading to 10% sound, now its the opposite with my CI.

Now, I'm "scratching" my head here as this kind of surprises me. It must be me or something. I actually found it with my CI so much easier to the point that I don't have to concentrate much at all to hear and listen to others. I used to have to really do that all day long in my HA days (consequently I tried to limit my listening situations for obvious reasons). With my CI, it has allowed to to listen (if you will) all day long without being exhausted. I seldom have to concentrate hard anymore. Perhaps, I'm simply a natural listener when I can "hear" the dialog without much trouble. Funny, I do pretty good in noiser environments too! Common sense and life experiences does tell me that when one is distracted and/or tired one doesn't listen as well and that still holds true even for me.

Bottomline...I always thought it was sort of proportional to the ability to hear...I guess not!

 

[neecy]

Now, I'm "scratching" my head here as this kind of surprises me. It must be me or something. I actually found it with my CI so much easier to the point that I don't have to concentrate much at all to hear and listen to others. I used to have to really do that all day long in my HA days (consequently I tried to limit my listening situations for obvious reasons). With my CI, it has allowed to to listen (if you will) all day long without being exhausted. I seldom have to concentrate hard anymore. Perhaps, I'm simply a natural listener when I can "hear" the dialog without much trouble. Funny, I do pretty good in noiser environments too! Common sense and life experiences does tell me that when one is distracted and/or tired one doesn't listen as well and that still holds true even for me.

Bottomline...I always thought it was sort of proportional to the ability to hear...I guess not!

In situations like trying to follow a television show or a movie with a lot of dialogue I find it hard to concentrate sometimes. I guess it partially depends on my state of mind (am I already tired?) and what the subject matter is. Radio sometimes is hard too - but "in person" I don't find that I get tired of listening.

 

[sr171soars]

In situations like trying to follow a television show or a movie with a lot of dialogue I find it hard to concentrate sometimes. I guess it partially depends on my state of mind (am I already tired?) and what the subject matter is. Radio sometimes is hard too - but "in person" I don't find that I get tired of listening.

I see now what you meant. You are right it just depends on different things.

BTW - I love listening to radio talk stations from time to time. It is a great way to enhance listening skills...I do it very well even in cars with windows down!

 

[greema]

Wow! Cool thread!

I am learning so much from all of you! AND no one is shooting the other down (yet)... thank you for all your input and it seems that everyone's experience is different, and thus proving that CI is not perfect which is so opposite of some people say that Cloggy "had said that the CI is perfect" -- I have yet to see anyone claiming that CI is perfect

 

[Superfroggy]

IMO, it is pointless in engaging in debate with Mookie. Why should we bother to waste our intelligence on someone like him?

Greema's quote below sums it up perfectly-- can you guess which one is Mookie?

"Wise men talk because they have something to say;
fools, because they have to say something."
Plato

 

[Cloggy]

IMO, it is pointless in engaging in debate with Mookie. Why should we bother to waste our intelligence on someone like him?
........

In a way you're right. The other side is that there are plenty of people who can be reosoned with and who do have an open mind.

I posted it as a topic to show the kind of useless "communication".
It's too easy to fall into the "trap" of explaining and discussing there were explanation is not wanted.

 

[loml]

abcdefg..........

Mookie

Come on, Cloggy...don't you know that oralism method allow to use fingerspelling?

So does ASL..... and the point being what exactly???