Putting your deaf children in which schools...and why?

deafskeptic said:
I can relate to you and natty. I feel like I have to teach myself everything as the hearing aren't going to be too helpful.
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It's like Getting GED, isn't it?
 
So many parents don't know what we go through when we are mainstreamed with no accommodations
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To anyone lurking........natty feels this way and she was a pretty good "standout" acheiver.
That should tell you something!
natty, do you think you would have benifited from attending a dhh academic program?
 
jillio said:
Sadly, I know because I have seen it happen over and over and over again. Sadly, I know because I deal with deaf adolescents in a therapy group. And, sadly, I know because I see hearing parents continuing down the same road right this minute.
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A question or two.

When you had those deaf adolescents in therapy group. Were their parents in denial about their specialised needs regarding appropriate educational placement, communication etc?

Are their parents transformed for the better after their kid ended up in therapy regarding the choices parents made for the kid that led them to this stage?

Sorry if my questions are a tad generalised or leading.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
A question or two.

When you had those deaf adolescents in therapy group. Were their parents in denial about their specialised needs regarding appropriate educational placement, communication etc?

Are their parents transformed for the better after their kid ended up in therapy regarding the choices parents made for the kid that led them to this stage?

Sorry if my questions are a tad generalised or leading.
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I don't mind answering at all. Yes, the parents were in severe denial regarding specialized educational needs. They were also in denial about the social struggles their child endures, and hold a strong belief that their child is functioning very well and is very well adjusted. BTW, all of these kids were raised in an oral only environment and sent to orally based mainstream programs. The parents want their child to be a reasonable facsimile of a hearing child, and they convince themselves that the child has succeeded in doing so. But they are blind to the reality of what the child is going through. These kids don't feel that they can even talk to their parents about their difficulties, because the parents have given them the message all of their life that the only acceptable way is the hearing way. They fear they will be judged as being inferior or incapable by their own families just because they have problems in an oral only environment. These kids feel their parents will only be proud of them if they are successfully oral. So the kids try to make their parents believe that they are successful. They want their parent's love and acceptance and they believe they have to be oral in order to get it. It is the message they have been given.

Some parents wake up. Unfortunately, most do not. They continue to blame deafness for their child's problems and refuse to see that deafness is not the problem. Environment and the destructive messages they are given by their family is the problem. Unfortunately, it takes a strong parent to admit what they have contributed to their child's problem, and an even stronger parent to make changes. They are few and far between. Once they have dealt with their child's deafness in a negative way for say, 15 or 16 years, they are reluctant to back up and make those changes. They generally continue in the same way. It is the very reason that so many deaf adults are estranged from their families. These are the very same parents that we hear say, "But my child is different." No, your child is not different. They will encounter the very same difficulties that deaf children in this situation have always encountered and will continue to encounter. And they will turn away from their family and toward their deaf peers for support and understanding. Hopefully, they will end up in a therapy support group that will help them work through the issues that have been created for them. Hopefully, they will get there before their low self esteem causes them lasting damage. You posted an article a short while ago about the deaf teen that took some very risky chances with her safety just to fit in and ended up murdered. We hear members here tell their stories of having developed eating disorders and anxiety disorders and depression as a result of trying to be what they weren't but what they believed their parents wanted them to be and what they were told they had to be in order to be successful. We hear of these struggles daily. We hear them from adults that have managed to conquer their demons, and we still hear them from children and adolescents whose parents hold onto that belief that "my child is different and this will never happen to him /her" above all else. Is it any wonder that the deaf community feels protective of deaf children?
 
deafdyke said:
To anyone lurking........natty feels this way and she was a pretty good "standout" acheiver.
That should tell you something!
natty, do you think you would have benifited from attending a dhh academic program?
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I know you asked Natty this question, but I would like to answer.

First off, I did very well in school. I had no services provided as none were available that we knew of. I had one hearing aid from ages 7-10 and then did not get another even though my hearing got worse and worse. (money and insurance didn't cover them). Even tough I did very well, it was a struggle. I studied for hours every night. My brothers both helped (they were older). I had no free time to be with friends since I was doing so much studying just to do well in school.

If I had had the opportunity to have a dhh program, then I don't feel I would have had to struggle so much. It may have made things a little easier for me and my family. I'm not sure of it, but that's my opinion.
 
melissa said:
I know it's apples and oranges as I'm hoh and not deaf.
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I am sure we could have a 6 week endless and fruitless debate about where exactly the line is, but just wanted to say that during my time in school I was both. I have wild hearing, I have a cookie-bite SN hearing loss that nobody knows the cause of. EVAS is suspected but not scanned for (money, money, money) or perhaps it is part of the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, as little to nothing is known about how EDS affects hearing, it's just fairly well-documented that it does. The longest piece of information I have yet found in literature about it is a couple of sentences saying EDS sometimes causes hearing loss and hearing aids may be helpful! :roll:

On top of those things, one rare and unexplained and one fluctuating, I had very bad "glue ear" which I still have today due to the eustachian tube defect of EDS. Some days I wake up HoH and other days I wake up deaf. I am only allowed to get fitted with hearing aids according to the test I gave on the day they tested me, so they are often useless. Colds, airplane rides, etc. always make me profoundly deaf, and I never know how long it's going to last. My maximum hearing when all is going well is 60dB loss, minimum hearing is a blank audiogram! :laugh2:
 
The parents want their child to be a reasonable facsimile of a hearing child, and they convince themselves that the child has succeeded in doing so. But they are blind to the reality of what the child is going through. These kids don't feel that they can even talk to their parents about their difficulties, because the parents have given them the message all of their life that the only acceptable way is the hearing way. They fear they will be judged as being inferior or incapable by their own families just because they have problems in an oral only environment. These kids feel their parents will only be proud of them if they are successfully oral. So the kids try to make their parents believe that they are successful. They want their parent's love and acceptance and they believe they have to be oral in order to get it. It is the message they have been given.
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:shock: jillo, that's almost EXACTLY what I went through with my parents. My parents are nice and all.....and they DO now say that they should have sent me to a School or a formal school based dhh program. I'll give them that. But they just don't get it AT ALL. They really don't. They're NOT all anal about me being oral. BUT, they are SO out of touch about what it was like for me to grow up as a a kid with a disabilty. Especially in this area...god, they are SO enthralled with ...they think that I'm the only one in the world who experianced the HELL and downsides of mainstreaming. I'm shuddering remembering the hell of that....they also seem to not be able to see past superficality but that's a whole nother topic.
 
I know it's apples and oranges as I'm hoh and not deaf.
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melissa, it's not. It's truly not. Comparing a hearing typical kid with a dhh kid yes.....but the voice off ASL/Sign only kids are kind of rare. Most deaf kids get a very heavy dose of speech you know, and a lot of them have useful residual hearing.
 
deafdyke said:
.....but the voice off ASL/Sign only kids are kind of rare. Most deaf kids get a very heavy dose of speech you know, and a lot of them have useful residual hearing.
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I totally agree. This is what has been so hard for us with Katie. We got a lot of overly concerned comments when we dropped speech. The teacher who was around when the DHH program was set up said she didn't think there had been more than 4-5 "no speech" kids in the district in almost 20 years and never one from a hearing family.
 
WeeBeastie said:
I totally agree. This is what has been so hard for us with Katie. We got a lot of overly concerned comments when we dropped speech. The teacher who was around when the DHH program was set up said she didn't think there had been more than 4-5 "no speech" kids in the district in almost 20 years and never one from a hearing family.
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Does she benefit from HAs? If so, She should be fine with speech therapy once a week or so. I think most deaf people like to say " Go to hell" to Audists :D
 
A said:
Does she benefit from HAs? If so, She should be fine with speech therapy once a week or so. I think most deaf people like to say " Go to hell" to Audists :D
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not really... her aided thresholds just brush the bottom of the speech banana.

She'll learn to speak when she wants to, if at all.
 
I think alot of us deaf are just below speech banana. I never could hear "s" or soft pitches like that. I was taught how to say them. Speech therapy does help. YOu don't have to overdo though. But that's ok if you feel it is not the best thing for her.
 
A said:
I think alot of us deaf are just below speech banana. I never could hear "s" or soft pitches like that. I was taught how to say them. Speech therapy does help. YOu don't have to overdo though. But that's ok if you feel it is not the best thing for her.
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Me too. And I agree with you.
 
jillio said:
I don't mind answering at all. Yes, the parents were in severe denial regarding specialized educational needs. They were also in denial about the social struggles their child endures, and hold a strong belief that their child is functioning very well and is very well adjusted. BTW, all of these kids were raised in an oral only environment and sent to orally based mainstream programs. The parents want their child to be a reasonable facsimile of a hearing child, and they convince themselves that the child has succeeded in doing so. But they are blind to the reality of what the child is going through. These kids don't feel that they can even talk to their parents about their difficulties, because the parents have given them the message all of their life that the only acceptable way is the hearing way. They fear they will be judged as being inferior or incapable by their own families just because they have problems in an oral only environment. These kids feel their parents will only be proud of them if they are successfully oral. So the kids try to make their parents believe that they are successful. They want their parent's love and acceptance and they believe they have to be oral in order to get it. It is the message they have been given.

Some parents wake up. Unfortunately, most do not. They continue to blame deafness for their child's problems and refuse to see that deafness is not the problem. Environment and the destructive messages they are given by their family is the problem. Unfortunately, it takes a strong parent to admit what they have contributed to their child's problem, and an even stronger parent to make changes. They are few and far between. Once they have dealt with their child's deafness in a negative way for say, 15 or 16 years, they are reluctant to back up and make those changes. They generally continue in the same way. It is the very reason that so many deaf adults are estranged from their families. These are the very same parents that we hear say, "But my child is different." No, your child is not different. They will encounter the very same difficulties that deaf children in this situation have always encountered and will continue to encounter. And they will turn away from their family and toward their deaf peers for support and understanding. Hopefully, they will end up in a therapy support group that will help them work through the issues that have been created for them. Hopefully, they will get there before their low self esteem causes them lasting damage. You posted an article a short while ago about the deaf teen that took some very risky chances with her safety just to fit in and ended up murdered. We hear members here tell their stories of having developed eating disorders and anxiety disorders and depression as a result of trying to be what they weren't but what they believed their parents wanted them to be and what they were told they had to be in order to be successful. We hear of these struggles daily. We hear them from adults that have managed to conquer their demons, and we still hear them from children and adolescents whose parents hold onto that belief that "my child is different and this will never happen to him /her" above all else. Is it any wonder that the deaf community feels protective of deaf children?
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I'm basically speechless mostly about the parents and how deep seated their denial is. No wonder many of those kids gravitate to the security within the deaf community.

Those parents missed out so much on what could be if they had accepted the simple fact their child is deaf and meet their needs. They should put the kid first and want them to be happy rather than have the kids spend their whole live working to make parents happy.

Thanks so much, Jillio, for taking the time to share your professional experiences and answering my questions. I have learned something.
 
deafdyke said:
:shock: jillo, that's almost EXACTLY what I went through with my parents. My parents are nice and all.....and they DO now say that they should have sent me to a School or a formal school based dhh program. I'll give them that. But they just don't get it AT ALL. They really don't. They're NOT all anal about me being oral. BUT, they are SO out of touch about what it was like for me to grow up as a a kid with a disabilty. Especially in this area...god, they are SO enthralled with ...they think that I'm the only one in the world who experianced the HELL and downsides of mainstreaming. I'm shuddering remembering the hell of that....they also seem to not be able to see past superficality but that's a whole nother topic.
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You know that school is often hell for kids who aren't deaf, right? Why do you thinkteen suicide happens? Or Columbine?
 
:wave: Jillio, I agree with Miss-Delectable in her :ty: for sharing the experiences and perceptions of the kids in the support group and for your thoughts on it! And Kristina, what you wrote about your schooling reminded me of my husband, who has shared his experiences with me too- he is very bright but did average in school and was not very interested in it because he couldn't hear anything and people all thought he DID hear and "wasn't interested" or was "too self-absorbed" - now it is true he can be VERY self-focused and intense but I wonder to what degree that was increased by his experiences. I think he had a body aid as a young kid for a couple of years and then for a couple of years in high school he had BTE's.

and also this reminds me - although I know many things about it are not the same - of my situation where I struggled with certain things in school for so long <LD> and people just thought I "wasn't interested" and I rememeber how hard it was being surrounded by kids who just understood something - and I didn't. As is common with LD, my dear mom just isn't able to see this part of me and will declare given the opportunity that I certainly DON'T have LD.
 
FJ, believe me, I do know that school is often hell, homelife can be too - for kids who aren't deaf....but I see something else - I see how experiencing isolation due to a language/cultural barrier, or due to an educational placement or lack thereof - can be kind of hardship - or hell- that is not the same as having other intense school or home issues. I write this in and of itself and also because a lot of times <not all> kids having severe school/home issues CAN find role models, they can find support and community outside of their circumstances which can assist them to see ways out of their situation, to see a way to improve. But when one is surrounded by people whose language or frame or reference is not one's own, or is very difficult to understand and this leads to delays or confusion that remains with the person even though they may literally move out of that stage or environment - I think that presents another challenge.
 
faire_jour said:
You know that school is often hell for kids who aren't deaf, right? Why do you thinkteen suicide happens? Or Columbine?
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Having virtually limited access to language, communication and information in an educational environment is not comparable to those kids you mentioned. They had access to all that but had other issues.

This is about deaf children who are struggling to understand what is happening around them constantly in the educational setting. That is a stress they dont need.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
I'm basically speechless mostly about the parents and how deep seated their denial is. No wonder many of those kids gravitate to the security within the deaf community.

Those parents missed out so much on what could be if they had accepted the simple fact their child is deaf and meet their needs. They should put the kid first and want them to be happy rather than have the kids spend their whole live working to make parents happy.

Thanks so much, Jillio, for taking the time to share your professional experiences and answering my questions. I have learned something.
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You are quite welcome, Miss D. And I agree...it never ceases to amaze me how deep denial can run and how destructive it can be.
 
faire_jour said:
You know that school is often hell for kids who aren't deaf, right? Why do you thinkteen suicide happens? Or Columbine?
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We are talking about the specifics related to deaf children. This post is just a way to try to justify the negative experiences that deaf children have every day in this world by pointing a finger and saying, "They did it too, and they aren't deaf."
 
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