Political Move Cave-In

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kokonut said:
Damn it. Lost my post.

Short answer. Brine, not so much. Pennsylvannia is known for its brine/saline water in shallow groundwater. Hard to pinpoint that. PA drills 20,000 water wells a year. Methane, sure. Anytime you drill for gas, methane can be a problem.

Like I said, I advocate for more of these studies to understand better the interaction in a complex geology for a complex situation.
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Koko, if you're interested there is a report from Weston Wilson, a 20+ year employee at the EPA who talks about the short sightedness of the EPA not looking into the hydrofracking closely. It contains results from EPA peer reviewed studies.
You can see/download it here:
http://www.earthworksaction.org/pubs/Weston.pdf
 
Banjo said:
No. Our natural resources belong to us, not you. Keep your straws out of our milkshakes.
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I said, if a country wants to sell/export some of their natural resources to other countries, they are free to do so in the context of this discussion on oil and gas. :wave:

"They have recognized Canada's emergence as a global energy powerhouse - the emerging ‘energy superpower' our government intends to build."
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Canada: An energy superpower? - 20/20 Magazine

:shrug:
 
naisho said:
Koko, if you're interested there is a report from Weston Wilson, a 20+ year employee at the EPA who talks about the short sightedness of the EPA not looking into the hydrofracking closely. It contains results from EPA peer reviewed studies.
You can see/download it here:
http://www.earthworksaction.org/pubs/Weston.pdf
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I am aware of that article which is why I said on page 1:

I'm not adverse to seeing regulations improve such as introducing to Congress the Fracturing Responsibility and Awareness of Chemicals Act (FRAC Act). That Act would amend the Safe Drinking Water Act to regulate hydraulic fracturing under the same laws and regulations that are used for the Underground Injection Control (UIC) program which has its own controversy as well. Updating and improving this regulation is necessary to help protect groundwater resources. This is NOT an unregulated activity.
 
kokonut said:
I am aware of that article which is why I said on page 1:

I'm not adverse to seeing regulations improve such as introducing to Congress the Fracturing Responsibility and Awareness of Chemicals Act (FRAC Act). That Act would amend the Safe Drinking Water Act to regulate hydraulic fracturing under the same laws and regulations that are used for the Underground Injection Control (UIC) program which has its own controversy as well. Updating and improving this regulation is necessary to help protect groundwater resources. This is NOT an unregulated activity.
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kokonut, you have contributed greatly to this thread with your knowledge.
I'm sure you realize that should the pipeline be built, additional job would be created to regulate safety, just as I'm sure Obama did not give a thought to this. Think about it: jobs for Americans on our soil rather than jobs exported.
 
rolling7 said:
kokonut, you have contributed greatly to this thread with your knowledge.
I'm sure you realize that should the pipeline be built, additional job would be created to regulate safety, just as I'm sure Obama did not give a thought to this. Think about it: jobs for Americans on our soil rather than jobs exported.
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I think "K" would prefer we drill our own land for oil. Just a FYI.
 
saywhatkid said:
I think "K" would prefer we drill our own land for oil. Just a FYI.
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Yep. He knows the oil business and how safe it is, how they follow regulations. Heck, you can even eat off the oil rigs. Furthermore, there is no global warming. :wave:
 
saywhatkid said:
I think "K" would prefer we drill our own land for oil. Just a FYI.
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And we should drill for our own oil and gas and eliminate the importation of oil from unfriendly and unstable countries that can easily impact on our national security should the oil stop flowing. 80% of our oil is imported while 20% is domestically produced on our own soil. That figure should be reversed. We can easily support ourselves using our own oil and gas. In fact, we have more oil and gas than the Middle East. As we generate revenues from our own oil we can better plan to ease into and expand on alternative sources of energy while keeping a good reign on our national security without worrying it being compromised. The crux here is maintaining our national security without compromising it all the while maintaining our energy independence.
 
rolling7 said:
kokonut, you have contributed greatly to this thread with your knowledge.
I'm sure you realize that should the pipeline be built, additional job would be created to regulate safety, just as I'm sure Obama did not give a thought to this. Think about it: jobs for Americans on our soil rather than jobs exported.
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See post 12. That has already been disputed and clarified.
 
beowulf said:
yep. He knows the oil business and how safe it is, how they follow regulations. Heck, you can even eat off the oil rigs. Furthermore, there is no global warming. :wave:
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bwaaaahhaaahaaaa.
 
jillio said:
See post 12. That has already been disputed and clarified.
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Points that were clarified in #12

a) 3500-4200 jobs is alot, why does Obama not wasn't to put people to work?

b) 11% South Dakotans is alot, for one state to get over 10% especially a small populated state is excellent

c) ATU, TWU and perhaps other unions have their own agendas and not the whole picture in consideration, I'm sure the Longshore unions would rather the oil go by ship and the Transportation unions would rather the oil go by tanker trucks.
 
rolling7 said:
Points that were clarified in #12

a) 3500-4200 jobs is alot, why does Obama not wasn't to put people to work?

b) 11% South Dakotans is alot, for one state to get over 10% especially a small populated state is excellent

c) ATU, TWU and perhaps other unions have their own agendas and not the whole picture in consideration, I'm sure the Longshore unions would rather the oil go by ship and the Transportation unions would rather the oil go by tanker trucks.
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The talk about the number of jobs that will be created is a smokescreen and greatly exaggerated. The bulk of those jobs will be going to Canadians.

The unions have more of a "big picture" perspective than do the oil companies.:roll:

You seemed to leave out the consequence of creating even higher gas prices.
 
Reba said:
That would really leave Japan up the creek without a paddle:

"with virtually no energy natural resources, Japan is the world's largest importer of coal and liquefied natural gas, as well as the second largest importer of oil"

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html
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That's true, however, they have a rich methane hydrate deposits off of their coastlines and in known nearby troughs deep below in the ocean. Methane hydrate deposits is so abundant around the world "that may exceed the combined energy of all other fossil fuels on earth, according to the Department of Energy." Japan is 3 to 5 years away from production after beginning in 2000 on such a feasibility.

http://www.netl.doe.gov/technologies/oil-gas/publications/Hydrates/Newsletter/MHNews_2011_01.pdf

US, Japan Bore Ahead To Tap Methane Hydrate - Forbes

http://web.mit.edu/mitei/research/s...-2011/Supplementary_Paper_SP_2_4_Hydrates.pdf
 
Banjo said:
What about turning their livestock and human feces into a source of energy?
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From accounts I have read, just smear feces on the walls to light up a room.
 
jillio said:
The talk about the number of jobs that will be created is a smokescreen and greatly exaggerated. The bulk of those jobs will be going to Canadians.

The unions have more of a "big picture" perspective than do the oil companies.:roll:

You seemed to leave out the consequence of creating even higher gas prices.
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Canadians working on an American pipeline in the lower 48!! Maybe a few.

More oil in the pipeline= lower prices
Less oil in the pipeline= higher prices
No pipeline = much, much higher prices
 
rolling7 said:
More oil in the pipeline= lower prices
Less oil in the pipeline= higher prices
No pipeline = much, much higher prices
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Better gas mileage = lower fuel prices
Less SUVs driven to soccer games = lower fuel prices
More mass transit use = lower fuel prices
Less fossil fuel comsumption = lower air pollution levels
 
rolling7 said:
Canadians working on an American pipeline in the lower 48!! Maybe a few.

More oil in the pipeline= lower prices
Less oil in the pipeline= higher prices
No pipeline = much, much higher prices
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Go back and read the article.
 
Banjo said:
What about turning their livestock and human feces into a source of energy?
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I don't think Japan has huge herds of livestock to sustain such a system. Besides, don't they already recycle the cow patties into fertilizer?

Do you really think using human feces (which requires other energy to process) would be enough to meet their needs?
 
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