Oral school

[Jiro]

In this video (ask someone who can hear and ask his/her opinion) and listen and watch this videa and see which of the three kids is a deaf child. Only one of the three in this video is a deaf student while the other two are hearing students. This deaf child wears bi-lateral cochlear implants. Maybe you can find out by their demeanor? Their actions? Or by their voices? Is there a "deaf voice" you can detect?
http://www.tmos.org/Kelsi MPEG.mpg

when I saw the video - I think cruelty and injustice. It's cruel to subject this child with CI in a hearing environment. You can easily see what's she missing out and that will lead to delayed development.

I know because I was like her. I'm just an erratic outlier because I came out just fine.

 

[Daredevel7]

isn't it frustrating when they don't realize that the deaf accent is no different from foreign accent? I mean.... come on... have they ever try to talk with Indian immigrants? Chinese immigrants?

Haha, many people at my college would say that they understand me so much better than their own professors (who are usually either Chinese or Indian).

I find that hilarious.

 

[Jiro]

Haha, many people at my college would say that they understand me so much better than their own professors (who are usually either Chinese or Indian).

I find that hilarious.

I think I misspoke in my previous post. I don't mean to say that deaf accent is AS TERRIBLE as Indian/Chinese professors' accents. I meant to say that deaf accent is as same as foreign accent (but better than foreigner )

and good lord.... when i was freshman.... handful of my classes especially math, physics, and chem were taught by professors who speak english with terrible accent. The classmates around me had to peek at my CART screen to see what the hell professor was saying

 

[Lighthouse77]

and good lord.... when i was freshman.... handful of my classes especially math, physics, and chem were taught by professors who speak english with terrible accent. The classmates around me had to peek at my CART screen to see what the hell professor was saying :laugh2:

Does that sound familiar? Seeing that they all went straight for CART for some assistance because they couldn't understand... Sounds like what we do everyday.

 

[shel90]

I am not too crazy about this video. Most of you know I was raised orally and am perfectly fine with it, but.... this video implies that if you don't sound or look JUST like a hearing person, that is something to be disappointed about.

One of the things several people ask me, upon hearing my news about getting the CI, is "Will it make you speak better?" And I just respond with "Oh, you can't understand me then?" and they respond "No, I can understand you, but to be honest, you do have some accent." and I say "Well, it may be a priority to you, but I'd prefer worrying about hearing more rather than speaking perfectly." That usually shuts them up.

They just don't know better. But stuff like video above seems to add fuel to the fire.

I agree with u.

 

[deafbajagal]

Many oral programs are more concerned about perfecting speech than anything else. Perfect speech is the ultimate goal. And that is very, very sad.

 

[dreama]

My son who is deaf and wears implants, isn't afraid of going up to people, starting conversations, and isn't embarassed as to who he is. I keep seeing the same thread going round and round, that implanted kids that do well socially are the exception not the rule and I don't see it that way. My son is just like any of his peers- except he cannot hear. He also, was taught ASL from an early age (as soon as we found out he was deaf, we started to sign to him)

That just goes to prove my point. Your son has a CI. Your son has sign language. He has a full set of tools and it seems he is really benifiting from that.

He's not the kind of person I'm refering to. I'm talking strictly ORAL ONLY. People who were banned from using sign language like Shel was. Sometimes they fail and they are really very language deprived. They don't have problems reading and don't use proper english. Then oralists point at them and say they are the result of someone being exposed to sign language. That's what I object to since if They really had been exposed from day one, not after years of language delays, they wouldn't have been in the possition they are in.

Yes I agree that all children are bound to have some problems of ome kind or another. My brother once broke both his arms and suffered concoussion.

However Deaf children have specifically hearing related problems. Has your hearing daughter ever had to pull out of a subject completely because the teacher basically just spoke and pupils were expected to take notes without any support except an FM system? I was fine with teachers who wrote on the blackboard a lot and gave us books to read but if they didn't (and some didn't) I was completely at a loss.

 

[kokonut]

I am not too crazy about this video. Most of you know I was raised orally and am perfectly fine with it, but.... this video implies that if you don't sound or look JUST like a hearing person, that is something to be disappointed about.

One of the things several people ask me, upon hearing my news about getting the CI, is "Will it make you speak better?" And I just respond with "Oh, you can't understand me then?" and they respond "No, I can understand you, but to be honest, you do have some accent." and I say "Well, it may be a priority to you, but I'd prefer worrying about hearing more rather than speaking perfectly." That usually shuts them up.

They just don't know better. But stuff like video above seems to add fuel to the fire.

Not really. It's just the fact that early intervention (as babies/toddlers/children) with a hearing aid or cochlear implant makes a world of difference along with the needed support that they turn out that way. They just simply speak and even hear well. It's not about that they speak (or god forbid act) like a hearing person but able to communicate clearly. That's the goal. If you can understand the enuciated words then that's all it matters along with their aural abilities. There are, as I reiterate, some gray areas but you have technology today that now changes this whole approach. And it is still a parental right on how to approach these things but it's not just a teacher's job anymore, parents have to become lovingly involved as well to make it a success.

And that girl in the blue shirt spoke just fine and quite clearly, too. A deaf voice? Hardly. One wouldn't tell just by listening to it. The other two girls are in fact hearing.

 

[kokonut]

Many oral programs are more concerned about perfecting speech than anything else. Perfect speech is the ultimate goal. And that is very, very sad.

No such thing as perfect speech. Understandable speech, sure. Perfect speech? Try talking to a person with a heavy, southern accept or a guy with a Minnasotan accent or a New Yorker? How a bit of cajun flavor accent in the bayou of Louisanna.

Again, there is no such thing as a perfect speech. What's important is a speech that can be understood.

 

[kokonut]

I think I misspoke in my previous post. I don't mean to say that deaf accent is AS TERRIBLE as Indian/Chinese professors' accents. I meant to say that deaf accent is as same as foreign accent (but better than foreigner )

and good lord.... when i was freshman.... handful of my classes especially math, physics, and chem were taught by professors who speak english with terrible accent. The classmates around me had to peek at my CART screen to see what the hell professor was saying

I know what you mean, Jiro. When I went to George Washington University there were two classes I took. One professor had a Japanese accent and the other an Indian (India...not North America Indian) accent in my differential equation class. I understood the Japanese professor better but not the Indian professor. And I wasn't alone. In fact I asked my hearing peers if they could understand him and they said, "Not really."

 

[kokonut]

when I saw the video - I think cruelty and injustice. It's cruel to subject this child with CI in a hearing environment. You can easily see what's she missing out and that will lead to delayed development.

I know because I was like her. I'm just an erratic outlier because I came out just fine.

I see nothing cruel but you might want to expand your perspective on exactly what makes it cruel. And who. You said "I was like her." Which ones? And which videos? What I see is something that's amazing when you have a child with a cochlear implant didn't bother to look up to see the words spoken. Instead the child listened without looking and responded accordingly. For parents to see that it would simply be nothing but amazing for them.

 

[deafbajagal]

Right, no such thing as perfect speech...but tell that to the oral programs.

 

[jillio]

I see nothing cruel but you might want to expand your perspective on exactly what makes it cruel. And who. You said "I was like her." Which ones? And which videos? What I see is something that's amazing when you have a child with a cochlear implant didn't bother to look up to see the words spoken. Instead the child listened without looking and responded accordingly. For parents to see that it would simply be nothing but amazing for them.

She was looking at the teacher off camera, and at the person behind the camera the entire time. Where you got the idea that she wasn't looking for visual cues is beyond me.

 

[shel90]

I see nothing cruel but you might want to expand your perspective on exactly what makes it cruel. And who. You said "I was like her." Which ones? And which videos? What I see is something that's amazing when you have a child with a cochlear implant didn't bother to look up to see the words spoken. Instead the child listened without looking and responded accordingly. For parents to see that it would simply be nothing but amazing for them.

It is amazing to those who view deafness as a disability. To those who don't, being able to communicate with full access and freely is very important.

 

[deafbajagal]

Most oral programs actually implement visual cues to facilitate learning...fyi.

 

[deafbajagal]

Right, Shel.

You can live without speech and have a great life. You cannot live without language.

 

[jillio]

Right, Shel.

You can live without speech and have a great life. You cannot live without language.

Well said, you two!

 

[Jiro]

Not really. It's just the fact that early intervention (as babies/toddlers/children) with a hearing aid or cochlear implant makes a world of difference along with the needed support that they turn out that way. They just simply speak and even hear well. It's not about that they speak (or god forbid act) like a hearing person but able to communicate clearly. That's the goal. If you can understand the enuciated words then that's all it matters along with their aural abilities. There are, as I reiterate, some gray areas but you have technology today that now changes this whole approach. And it is still a parental right on how to approach these things but it's not just a teacher's job anymore, parents have to become lovingly involved as well to make it a success.

And that girl in the blue shirt spoke just fine and quite clearly, too. A deaf voice? Hardly. One wouldn't tell just by listening to it. The other two girls are in fact hearing.

No such thing as perfect speech. Understandable speech, sure. Perfect speech? Try talking to a person with a heavy, southern accept or a guy with a Minnasotan accent or a New Yorker? How a bit of cajun flavor accent in the bayou of Louisanna.

Again, there is no such thing as a perfect speech. What's important is a speech that can be understood.

but.... isn't that a contradiction to your post above? If the hearing people have Minnesotian/cajun/southern/NY accents... what's wrong with deaf accent?

 

[shel90]

but.... isn't that a contradiction to your post above? If the hearing people have Minnesotian/cajun/southern/NY accents... what's wrong with deaf accent?

I have a deaf voice but most hearing people understand me. Isnt that what should be the most important thing? Why do we have to talk like hearing people? We are NOT hearing, for goodness sake! :roll:

 

[Jiro]

I see nothing cruel but you might want to expand your perspective on exactly what makes it cruel. And who. You said "I was like her." Which ones? And which videos? What I see is something that's amazing when you have a child with a cochlear implant didn't bother to look up to see the words spoken. Instead the child listened without looking and responded accordingly. For parents to see that it would simply be nothing but amazing for them.

that is lovely in a controlled, quiet classroom. wait until that child grows up and is exposed to uncontrolled, chaotic environment called "real world" - like company meeting, party, big social gatherings, etc. Let's see if the child with CI can listen without looking.