Oral Deaf Education Schools of today

[Lillys dad]

http://www.cid.wustl.edu/deaf home/soundeffectsspring06.pdf

I have read some real horror stories of how oral schools treated deaf kids in the past. I cannot imagine being put through some of the things that the students had to do.
I was reading the summer issue of Sound Effects on line today. Sound Effects is the school paper for Central Institute for the Deaf. I read an article about called "Introducing the new auditory oral preschool". As I was reading this, I beagan thingking of all the stories I had heard about oral ed. in the past. I then thought some here may take a little comfort in the philosophy of modern oral deaf ad, and the changes that have taken place. I do realize that they do not openly teach sign, but you must understand that they dont tell parents not to teach it. I was actually encouraged to teach Lilly sign. Theysay, as long as the emphasis is on speech, you can teach them anything you want.
There is another very good article about modern teaching in oral schools on the next page called "the whole child and the community"

BTW, if you are interested, the is a small picture of Lilly and I on page 3. it is next to the article about the St.Louis symphony coming to and playing at CID. It is the top left pic. She is sitting on my lap, while listening to the orchestra play a peice of music written specifically for the students at CID, they wrote a musical story for deaf kids.

 

[deafdyke]

I do realize that they do not openly teach sign, but you must understand that they dont tell parents not to teach it

That's somewhat better then the old days. Back in the old days Sign was totally and completly verboten. Unfortunatly they STILL have the attitude that Sign is somewhat "speshal needs" I (and many other dhh adults) would support oral deaf education MORE, if instead of promoting oral skills as the be all and end all, they subscribed more to the full toolbox/ ASL fluency would make them BILINGAL approach. Unfortunatly, too many oral deaf places and therapists and experts tend to push the oral skills as the be all and end all approach.

 

[Lillys dad]

I disagree. I have never even heard an employee there refer to sign as "special needs". You are correcct that the emphasis is on oral, afterall that is why they are an "Oral Deaf" Education facility. It is quite obvious why there is an emphasis on the oral aspect. This is stated in the school name. Are you aware that grad students at CID HAVE to take ASL classes? Why is that if they frown on it as you describe?
I am merely attempting to let people know that the oral schools of today are alot different than they were "back it the day" so to speak.

 

[Banjo]

Well, from what I know... it wasn't that long ago that students were being punished for signing in classrooms. In fact, they were still doing it in some places in the early 80s.

But a lot has changed since then.

 

[jag]

Well, from what I know... it wasn't that long ago that students were being punished for signing in classrooms. In fact, they were still doing it in some places in the early 80s.

But a lot has changed since then.

Oh lots has changed in deaf education, one really really NICE thing is the kids actually spend their vacations and weekends with their families now rather then only seeing them a couple times a year. and I believe that change happened about 15 yrs or so in this state. Really good, finally the families have someone to practice signing with on a regular basis. Also many schools where ASL is used for teaching ALSO have teachers and staff who talk to the kids who are also relient on thier voice or whatever hearing they have.

 

[Banjo]

Oh lots has changed in deaf education, one really really NICE thing is the kids actually spend their vacations and weekends with their families now rather then only seeing them a couple times a year. and I believe that change happened about 15 yrs or so in this state. Really good, finally the families have someone to practice signing with on a regular basis. Also many schools where ASL is used for teaching ALSO have teachers and staff who talk to the kids who are also relient on thier voice or whatever hearing they have.

Yeah, that's true. I used to attend a school for the deaf as a day student, but they had a lot of residential students. They get to go home on the weekends and holidays. I remember some teachers telling me that it was different back then, students only went home on holidays. I'm not sure, but I think they changed it at my school in the late 70s or early 80s.

 

[SJCSue]

There are two schools for the Deaf on Long Island (Mill Neck Manor in Nassau and Cleary in Suffolk) which teaches sign language as the language of instruction but they have an auditory-oral preschool for children with cochlear implants. I do not know if the children are allowed to sign outside of the classroom.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Well, from what I know... it wasn't that long ago that students were being punished for signing in classrooms. In fact, they were still doing it in some places in the early 80s.

But a lot has changed since then.

Yep, I remember. I was in a oral dhh program at a local public school for about 2 years for kindergarten, and one teacher would tape my fingers together in an attempt to prevent me from signing (the program didn't exactly prohibit signing but they didn't encourage it very much - she was a sub for my teacher who went on maternity leave, and what a bitch!) and I didnt learn worth shit there. My hearing loss was too profound for me to really learn anything without using sign, and by the time I was 6 years old I was functioning at the level of a 2 year old. My mother had to make a hard decision to send me to the state school for the deaf for 1 year just so I could catch up with other kids my age, learn to sign, and gain the necessary foundation for English language skills. At the school for the deaf I was placed in a preschool classroom (even tho I was 6!) and I learned so much in the first 2 weeks that they actually moved me up to the first grade! It was mostly a struggle that year, though, but after that 1 year I was able to go back to public school and I did pretty good after that point.

Cochlear implants were not widely available in the early 80s, and I suspect that if it was widely available and if I had been implanted at a very young age I probably wouldn't have had much of a hard time as I did at the oral dhh program I was in.

 

[deafdyke]

Lilysdad, It's more of an unspoken attitude that they have. Yes, oral deaf places are getting a lot more Sign friendly. AG Bell must be rolling over in his grave LOL. BUT, There are STILL editoral articles in Volta Voices bashing a proposed Californian law, that all TODs in CA must be ASL fluent. There are STILL many experts and schools out there that consider ASL a "crutch" or special needs. It's like those experts think that it's better for a kid to orally ask " How many spiders have legs?" for " How many legs do spiders have?"
then to have Sign abilty at the Harvard level.
Think about it.......read Volta Voices. Analyze the language used. They don't push oral skills as a " great skill to have thing" They don't nessarily come out and bash ASL.....which I think is a good thing....BUT, the language that they use.......Like for example the motto of AG Bell is " Freedom in Listening and Speaking".......That implies that they see ASL/Sign as a "crutch" or a sign of dependancy. Read the ads.....notice how they really really push the fact that their methods aren't quote unquote "speshal needs!"

Just b/c SOME awareness and improvements in attitudes exist, it doesn't mean that everything's fine and dandy. There's still a long long way to go!
I'm not surprised that the grad students are required to take ASL.....1) most academic programs in the US are TC style. 2) They are acknowleding, (although not explictly) that not all dhh kids with oral abilty will be able to have equal oral abilty on a par with hearing kids. I mean there are very few true oral failures, BUT there are still quite a few kids who actually NEED TC.
3) Many orally trained kids will eventually learn ASL at least as a second language. Lots of those do use 'terps and might even attend school at a Deaf program, instead of being traditionally mainstreamed (regular classes, regular school)

 

[deafdyke]

I didnt learn worth shit there. My hearing loss was too profound for me to really learn anything without using sign, and by the time I was 6 years old I was functioning at the level of a 2 year old. My mother had to make a hard decision to send me to the state school for the deaf for 1 year just so I could catch up with other kids my age, learn to sign, and gain the necessary foundation for English language skills. At the school for the deaf I was placed in a preschool classroom (even tho I was 6!) and I learned so much in the first 2 weeks that they actually moved me up to the first grade

WOW!!!!! jaw:
You certainly don't write like someone who got a late start on the proper early intervention! I have a friend who was only hoh. She didn't get aided til she was a first grader. She also didn't get the proper early intervention like you did. (totally mainstreamed regular classes minmal services Her expressive written language is just really really bad. Like the other day she was trying to tell me via AIM that she was trying to smother herself at nite (sucidal depression) She kept going "Oh I was snuggling myself, oh I was smuggling myself" Her syntax and sentenaces are just very non sequitory....like she probaly couldn't write a coherent essay if she wanted to.
I think that proper early intevention and proper teachign with the properly trained teachers can really do wonders.

 

[Lillys dad]

DD, I do realize that there are the oralist only types still around. But they are not as common as you would think. Here is something that might show you how much times have changed. I have never heard of the Volta Review until I read the book I talked about a while ago "Deaf Like Me". Is that mag still around? As I said, no one ever mentioned it to me. I never knew there was a oral deaf mag of any type. As far as the AG bell is concerned with oral deaf ed. I never had it pushed on me. The day Lilyl was diagnosed, we recieived a mountain of info which consisted mostly of different pamphlets and brochures. The hospital employee that told us Lilly was deaf also gave us all of the info. She provided us with a description of every available route to take in Lillys development along with the pamphlets that coresponded with the method of chosen communication. The AG bell info was mentioned, nothing more. She told us to read it over and contact them if we had any questions.
No one has ever specifically said, ( I do not even recall anyone implying) that we should not teach Lilly sign. In the era of TC, even oral schools have to admit that there are very obvious advantages of a deaf child learning sign.

So what is your opinion of the fact that deaf ed teachers are required to learn sign? Seeing as this is a program that revolves aroung oral ed? Dont you think this in itsself is clearly acknowledging the importance of sign?

 

[Lillys dad]

Lucia, if I had a teacher taping Lillys fingers together (opr any other mean things doen) to prevent her from communicating, I think I would end up losing my job and being arrested for assaulting a teacher.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Lucia, if I had a teacher taping Lillys fingers together (opr any other mean things doen) to prevent her from communicating, I think I would end up losing my job and being arrested for assaulting a teacher.

Ah yeah. My mom told me that she had no idea the teacher was doing this to me (teacher also tied me to a chair cause I was also a hyperactive child) and I did not know how to communicate this to my mother. Fortunately, my classmates who were able to communicate, they told their parents this and their parents in turn called my mother and told her this. She was very pissed.

 

[deafskeptic]

I don't remember ever having my hands taped or tied when I was in the oral program but I certainly can believe there are oralists with this sort of mentality.

I do remember having my hand slapped with a ruler from time to time because I tended to get in trouble for being over the place. I remember once I acted up in class and the sub teacher sent me out to sit in the hall facing the wall.

A photographer came along and took a picture of me and had it printed in the local paper. My parents saw my picture in the newspaper and I got in trouble with my parents, and then I got in trouble again with my regular teacher when I came to the class. She showed me the newspaper with my picture. That picture is on the wall in my bedroom.

A classmate of mine was my best friend in first grade and her parents were very strict about her being raised oral. When she got married, her family threatened to boycott the wedding if she invited her signing friends. I'm serious!

 

[sr171soars]

...
A classmate of mine was my best friend in first grade and her parents were very strict about her being raised oral. When she got married, her family threatened to boycott the wedding if she invited her signing friends. I'm serious!

How ignorant and pathetic! A wedding is supposed to be a celebration.

 

[Lillys dad]

SR, agreed.

Deaf skeptic, With the exception of the wedding thing, your experiences from school sound very normal. It is quite different from the horror stories I am used to hearing coming from oral schools. I am curious, how old are you? The reason I ask is it seems that the oral schools from 30-40 years ago were pretty bad. They began to get better and better after that.

 

[deafdyke]

Lilysdad, the Volta Review is still around. It's more of an academic journal now. The Volta Review of the old days has changed into Volta Voices.
I agree with you actually........I think the old style of oralism is dying. There are still totally head up their ass parents who just want a healthy normal child, and there are still experts who view oralism as some sort of grand utopia. But, I think that a hearing generation that has grown up with ASL=dhh, is going to have a much more openminded perspective on things like schooling, modes of communication etc.
It does rock that you guys got nonbiased information when Lily was ID'd as deaf. Especially since you're in the captial of oralism.
Still there needs to be HUGE changes in attitudes before we can have a victory party. Like I would love to see oral experts say that the best thing for most dhh kids is a full toolbox. Right now the unspoken assumption is still oral skills and mainstreaming are some Glorious Wonderful Utopia, and that oral skills make dhh kids totaly equal to hearing kids. That's not true. I wish so badly that I could articulate the emotional damage that Oralism as Utopia does to so many dhh kids.

 

[shel90]

Lilysdad, the Volta Review is still around. It's more of an academic journal now. The Volta Review of the old days has changed into Volta Voices.
I agree with you actually........I think the old style of oralism is dying. There are still totally head up their ass parents who just want a healthy normal child, and there are still experts who view oralism as some sort of grand utopia. But, I think that a hearing generation that has grown up with ASL=dhh, is going to have a much more openminded perspective on things like schooling, modes of communication etc.
It does rock that you guys got nonbiased information when Lily was ID'd as deaf. Especially since you're in the captial of oralism.
Still there needs to be HUGE changes in attitudes before we can have a victory party. Like I would love to see oral experts say that the best thing for most dhh kids is a full toolbox. Right now the unspoken assumption is still oral skills and mainstreaming are some Glorious Wonderful Utopia, and that oral skills make dhh kids totaly equal to hearing kids. That's not true. I wish so badly that I could articulate the emotional damage that Oralism as Utopia does to so many dhh kids.

I got emotionally damaged from that philosophy of "oral skills make dhh kids totally equal to hearing kids." I WISH the parents especially the parents of CI children would understand that and give their deaf children the full toolbox. It saddens me when I see parents who refuse to learn ASL just because they think their kids do just find with oral skills. there is nothing wrong with providing both so what is the big deal with ASL for those parents? Afraid that ASL will impede their ability to learn how to use their voices or what??

 

[deafskeptic]

SR, agreed.

Deaf skeptic, With the exception of the wedding thing, your experiences from school sound very normal. It is quite different from the horror stories I am used to hearing coming from oral schools. I am curious, how old are you? The reason I ask is it seems that the oral schools from 30-40 years ago were pretty bad. They began to get better and better after that.

I think this was because things were already changing by the time I attended first grade in the early '70s. I'm 40 years old now.

My first grade teacher was a wonderful teacher and she later learned sign a few years before her death to cancer and now the local deaf program has an award in her name that they give out to an outstanding teacher for the deaf in the area.

Even many hard core signers who were her students think she was a good teacher. I remember that one look from her was enough to silence the class or to get them to behave.

I do have some vague memories of me standing in a trashcan as a punishment in oral nursery school but for what I do not remember.

Most of my classmates could hear better than I could so learning speech and stuff wasn't hard for them. However, some of the parents were very hard core oral and my best friend's mother was badly abused as a child so that might explain some things.

 

[deafskeptic]

I must note here that not everyone had such a positive experience as I did with the oral program.

One of my ex boyfriends got in trouble for using sign on the bus and he had some trouble with the oral program due to his use of sign. I didn't learn sign till I was 13 so that may have made the difference.

Sign has never prevented him from being able to speak on the phone or speaking so I think the oralists' fears were unfounded.