'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

[jillio]

I think it shows that even law enforcement officials believe that they can't adequately protect women from violence. Part of the problem is the guilty guys get released without changing their ways.

On another TV interview, the sheriff emphasized how repeat offenders, especially rapists, are let out only to offend again.

I think he was more frustrated with the justice system.

Now that this has gotten back to a decent discussion, I'll get back in.

You have good points. Law enforcement can't, nor have they ever been able to, keep all violent crime from happening and protect all people from being victims. Therefore, we are responsible for doing some things that reduce our risk of becoming a victim. Is that to say the victim is responsible when they are attacked? No it isn't. It is simply saying that there are wise things to do and then, there are some things that aren't so wise.

Is the answer carrying a gun and going armed? I don't think so. Violence only creates more violence. The answer is in justice system reform, and instead of simply locking criminals up and allowing the anger and other issues that put them in the position of becoming criminals to fester, provide those services that will rehabilitate and make them better able to reinter society. That is the only thing that will create long term changes in the level of crime in this country. Retalliation doesn't bring the rate down, vindictive actions don't bring the rate down, killing doesn't bring the rate down. Ideally, we should be proactive enough in a civilized society that we seek to change the societal conditions that contribute to crime before we create a criminal instead of trying to correct the individual after we have already created those conditions. But, hey, I'm not going to ask for perfection, just improvement.

We also need to keep in mind that stranger rape accounts for a small minority of all reported rapes in this country.

 

[TXgolfer]

Correct.


Yes, but the saying itself has been around a lot longer.

Oh, no doubt. But imitating Connery when you say it makes it more fun

 

[naisho]

lol how often do you hear about gang war in America? No organized gang is stupid enough to cause bunch of gun battles or they'll risk RICO and massive clampdown/beatdown by bunch of 3-letters agencies plus local/state LEOs. That's bad for their businesses. very bad

and guess what? you as a law-abiding citizen can't pack a heat in LA or Oakland. California is one of 6 states that rarely or do not issue CCW permit.

gang turf disputes are really around, it is scary but us native Angelós we know to avoid those places if we can help it. I think regular people living around they just leave it to the law to settle it, nobody is vigilante enough to go around killing gangsters.

Those heavy gang areas are isolated to places like inglewood, or those mexican dudes up in central calif somewhere (I forgot main city). We stay out of them.

It's sort of like you know how the crappy areas in Baltimore can get, you will avoid going there at certain times if you can help it.
We sorta carry that same idea with our dangerous cities.

If we talk a place like El Paso, Las Cruces on the other hand... gang dispute or not you can get shot over anything, lots of fear about cartels and chicanos. There is a stretch of the I-10 highway around texas areas where it's just 100-200 miles of nothing but desert. A lot of drivers get held up by random thugs so it's not safe to drive around there during the evening.

 

[Jiro]

gang turf disputes are really around, it is scary but us native Angelós we know to avoid those places if we can help it. I think regular people living around they just leave it to the law to settle it, nobody is vigilante enough to go around killing gangsters.

Those heavy gang areas are isolated to places like inglewood, or those mexican dudes up in central calif somewhere (I forgot main city). We stay out of them.

It's sort of like you know how the crappy areas in Baltimore can get, you will avoid going there at certain times if you can help it.
We sorta carry that same idea with our dangerous cities.

If we talk a place like El Paso, Las Cruces on the other hand... gang dispute or not you can get shot over anything, lots of fear about cartels and chicanos. There is a stretch of the I-10 highway around texas areas where it's just 100-200 miles of nothing but desert. A lot of drivers get held up by random thugs so it's not safe to drive around there during the evening.

I'm talking about gang vs gang war. not civilians getting involved.

 

[jillio]

gang turf disputes are really around, it is scary but us native Angelós we know to avoid those places if we can help it. I think regular people living around they just leave it to the law to settle it, nobody is vigilante enough to go around killing gangsters.

Those heavy gang areas are isolated to places like inglewood, or those mexican dudes up in central calif somewhere (I forgot main city). We stay out of them.

It's sort of like you know how the crappy areas in Baltimore can get, you will avoid going there at certain times if you can help it.
We sorta carry that same idea with our dangerous cities.

If we talk a place like El Paso, Las Cruces on the other hand... gang dispute or not you can get shot over anything, lots of fear about cartels and chicanos. There is a stretch of the I-10 highway around texas areas where it's just 100-200 miles of nothing but desert. A lot of drivers get held up by random thugs so it's not safe to drive around there during the evening.

It happens everywhere. To say that there are not gang wars in the U.S. is naive. And you are correct. You have a personal responsiblity to your own safety to stay away from those places unless you have a death wish, or a Charles Bronson complex.

 

[jillio]

I'm talking about gang vs gang war. not civilians getting involved.

Happens all over the U.S.

 

[Jiro]

Now that this has gotten back to a decent discussion, I'll get back in.

You have good points. Law enforcement can't, nor have they ever been able to, keep all violent crime from happening and protect all people from being victims. Therefore, we are responsible for doing some things that reduce our risk of becoming a victim. Is that to say the victim is responsible when they are attacked? No it isn't. It is simply saying that there are wise things to do and then, there are some things that aren't so wise.

Is the answer carrying a gun and going armed? I don't think so. Violence only creates more violence. The answer is in justice system reform, and instead of simply locking criminals up and allowing the anger and other issues that put them in the position of becoming criminals to fester, provide those services that will rehabilitate and make them better able to reinter society. That is the only thing that will create long term changes in the level of crime in this country. Retalliation doesn't bring the rate down, vindictive actions don't bring the rate down, killing doesn't bring the rate down. Ideally, we should be proactive enough in a civilized society that we seek to change the societal conditions that contribute to crime before we create a criminal instead of trying to correct the individual after we have already created those conditions. But, hey, I'm not going to ask for perfection, just improvement.

We also need to keep in mind that stranger rape accounts for a small minority of all reported rapes in this country.

fine by me! perfectly understandable and a logical approach and that is what we law-abiding armed citizens would love to have.

but realistically - what to do when we encounter a situation where we are in potentially grave danger? it is entirely up to ourselves on what to do. in most cases - we run away without shooting.

 

[Jiro]

Happens all over the U.S.

that often?

 

[Jiro]

It happens everywhere. To say that there are not gang wars in the U.S. is naive. And you are correct. You have a personal responsiblity to your own safety to stay away from those places unless you have a death wish, or a Charles Bronson complex.

nobody said gang war isn't happening here. just if it happened frequently or not. I don't see much of it in newspapers. just mostly poor victims and gang wars in Mexico.

 

[deafskeptic]

Happens all over the U.S.

When I first moved to Lynchburg, VA I moved into an apartment where a gang member used to live before I moved there. I found this out from my Dad who told me that a cop told him that.

 

[jillio]

fine by me! perfectly understandable and a logical approach and that is what we law-abiding armed citizens would love to have.

but realistically - what to do when we encounter a situation where we are in potentially grave danger? it is entirely up to ourselves on what to do. in most cases - we run away without shooting.

If that is what you would love to have, how much time have you spent actually working toward reform? How much time have you spent advocating for the societal stratification that actually creates the criminal element?

You yourself have admitted that you have never been in a situation of grave dangere, Jiro. So the time you spend ranting about being able to carry a gun is wasted compared to the good it could have done if spent in reform work. You would be safer in the long run, and you wouldn't need that gun that you have never had to use anyway.

 

[jillio]

nobody said gang war isn't happening here. just if it happened frequently or not. I don't see much of it in newspapers. just mostly poor victims and gang wars in Mexico.

Been in Los Angeles lately?

 

[naisho]

I think in calif it doesn't happen as like weekly because our CCW and gun permits are super strict.

However I am sure for a fact in El Paso TX, it's a whole another level. There is gang related shooting or stabbing activity at least every week on the news over there, daily if we don't talk about stuff that doesn't make it to the media. Sad cause they're so close to mexico.

I bet TXgolfer can speak up on this more.

 

[deafskeptic]

I think in calif it doesn't happen as like weekly because our CCW and gun permits are super strict.

However I am sure for a fact in El Paso TX, it's a whole another level. There is gang related shooting or stabbing activity at least every week on the news over there, daily if we don't talk about stuff that doesn't make it to the media. Sad cause they're so close to mexico.

I bet TXgolfer can speak up on this more.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Jiro]

If that is what you would love to have, how much time have you spent actually working toward reform? How much time have you spent advocating for the societal stratification that actually creates the criminal element?

why does it have to be me?

You yourself have admitted that you have never been in a situation of grave dangere, Jiro. So the time you spend ranting about being able to carry a gun is wasted compared to the good it could have done if spent in reform work. You would be safer in the long run, and you wouldn't need that gun that you have never had to use anyway.

Why do I have to be Father Teresa? That's your job and your passion. I do mine by telling people to take their gun out as ABSOLUTELY LAST RESORT. They should just give them money if they demand it and that will be it. Never did I say that we should take gun out like a cowboy and start shooting at any threat - small or big.

Just because I support what you speak of doesn't mean I should get down and dirty with it. That's not my passion. That's your passion. I'm not interested in it but I support it.

ranting? I'm fighting for every person's rights to make a choice. That's my job and my passion. and it's going very well. Gun rights have been increased and Supreme Court has struck down DC gun ban law, Illinois gun ban law, and now Maryland. NJ and NY's next. All that... I haven't heard of any Charles Bronson incident.

Just because I've never been in a grave danger doesn't mean it will continue to be that way forever. It only takes one incident at ANY time to ruin your life. Why be a victim because the law says too bad?

Several weeks ago, I happened to be in area where there was a school violence (possibly illegal weapons involved) occurring in NYC on my way home. Dozens of police officers just came out with guns taken out. I bolted the heck outta there. The sight of gun taken out of police officer's belt was just enough to know shit just got messy and I ain't sticking around to find out what's going on. The driver caught up to me at next red light and he had this expression on his face, talking to me - wow!!! wow!!! I only had a flat expression on my face and I just wanted to get home in one piece.

 

[Jiro]

I think in calif it doesn't happen as like weekly because our CCW and gun permits are super strict.

However I am sure for a fact in El Paso TX, it's a whole another level. There is gang related shooting or stabbing activity at least every week on the news over there, daily if we don't talk about stuff that doesn't make it to the media. Sad cause they're so close to mexico.

I bet TXgolfer can speak up on this more.

Strict CCW and gun permit have nothing to do with gangs anyway. The only contributing factor I see is victims being unable to protect themselves.

 

[Jiro]

Been in Los Angeles lately?

yes. 11 months ago.

you?

 

[Reba]

...I will say that I believe 100% that some good self-defense classes would be far more effective for a woman in a rape situation than carrying a gun. A rapist must get close in order to commit the crime. Self-defense maneuvers are highly effective in close quarters. A gun is not.

Probably knowing self-defense and being allowed to carry a weapon would be a good idea. The more options, the better.

 

[Jiro]

Probably knowing self-defense and being allowed to carry a weapon would be a good idea. The more options, the better.

the last thing I'd want as a robber is ass-chopping grannie busting my chop

 

[jillio]

why does it have to be me?


Why do I have to be Father Teresa? That's your job and your passion. I do mine by telling people to take their gun out as ABSOLUTELY LAST RESORT. They should just give them money if they demand it and that will be it. Never did I say that we should take gun out like a cowboy and start shooting at any threat - small or big.

Just because I support what you speak of doesn't mean I should get down and dirty with it. That's not my passion. That's your passion. I'm not interested in it but I support it.

ranting? I'm fighting for every person's rights to make a choice. That's my job and my passion. and it's going very well. Gun rights have been increased and Supreme Court has struck down DC gun ban law, Illinois gun ban law, and now Maryland. NJ and NY's next. All that... I haven't heard of any Charles Bronson incident.

Just because I've never been in a grave danger doesn't mean it will continue to be that way forever. It only takes one incident at ANY time to ruin your life. Why be a victim because the law says too bad?

Several weeks ago, I happened to be in area where there was a school violence (possibly illegal weapons involved) occurring in NYC on my way home. Dozens of police officers just came out with guns taken out. I bolted the heck outta there. The sight of gun taken out of police officer's belt was just enough to know shit just got messy and I ain't sticking around to find out what's going on. The driver caught up to me at next red light and he had this expression on his face, talking to me - wow!!! wow!!! I only had a flat expression on my face and I just wanted to get home in one piece.

Why not you? Are you, or are you not, dissatisfied with the crime rate and the criminal justice system?