One simple question about ASL morphology

[me_punctured]

How do you sign "sleep" as a noun and as a verb in ASL?

I already know the answer to the question, but I'm curious to see what others have to say.

 

[Interpretrator]

Can you give some examples?

What are the English sentences in which "sleep" is used as a noun that you are thinking of?

When I come up with some (like "I need more sleep" or "I have to get some sleep,") I end up interpreting them in ASL with SLEEP as a verb.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

How do you sign "sleep" as a noun and as a verb in ASL?

I already know the answer to the question, but I'm curious to see what others have to say.

I might as well as confess to a secret fear that this is indeed a trick question. If that is the case, please do have a hearty laugh at my expense!

I would sign 'sleep', as a verb, like this;

Inverted '5' handshape on my face, the palm facing me, and my fingers go down, as if my eyelids were sleepy.

As for the noun form, I guess the same sign is applicable, or this could be used;

The 'prayer' sign, but next to one's ear, and the head tilted towards that sign a little bit, as if I were going to bed. (The usual one-handed sign for 'bed' is good enough for me!)

 

[Interpretrator]

The thing is, from what I've seen (and this is pretty standard in my area but I don't know about elsewhere), SLEEP doesn't follow the usual ASL noun-verb pattern -- one movement for verb, two for noun, like SIT/CHAIR. Once for SLEEP appears to mean verb/noun, and twice appears to mean the adjective "sleepy," or that is how I've seen it used.

I don't think I see ASL users sign "I NEED GO-TO SLEEP," but just "NEED SLEEP."

And you thought it was a simple question!

 

[me_punctured]

EEK. My cover's blown! You're right. It isn't a simple question, but rather a complicated one. I never meant to trick anyone. I was only curious about the responses.

As Interpretrator pointed out, SLEEP does not follow the usual ASL noun-verb (or verb-noun) pattern as COMPARE/COMPARISON*, MEASURE/MEASURE-MENT and SIT/CHAIR.

I'm reluctant to give out examples of sleep in different ASL fuctions due to obvious syntactical differences between ASL and English. But here it goes.

a. "I need to sleep."
b. "I need more sleep."

Eyeth, are you a native ASL signer?


*I have trouble translating the English word 'comparative' into ASL without fingerspelling it or demonstrating a comparison of literary texts as an example. As a non-native signer, I don't know all of the derivational morphology rules in ASL and keep imposing the English morphology rules instead.

 

[Interpretrator]

*I have trouble translating the English word 'comparative' into ASL

Unless the point is the word "comparative," like it's a vocabulary word in a class or something, probably it will work better to interpret the entire sentence into ASL instead of the one word out of context. (Unless you're transliterating.)

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Eyeth, are you a native ASL signer?

No.

 

[ayala920]

Unless the point is the word "comparative," like it's a vocabulary word in a class or something, probably it will work better to interpret the entire sentence into ASL instead of the one word out of context. (Unless you're transliterating.)

Me_punctured is deaf.

Though I do realize you might have mean interpret as in translate, not necessarily as "to interpret" as an interpreter would do. It's early and I'm tired. Forgive me.

 

[Sweetmind]

I might as well as confess to a secret fear that this is indeed a trick question. If that is the case, please do have a hearty laugh at my expense!

I would sign 'sleep', as a verb, like this;

Inverted '5' handshape on my face, the palm facing me, and my fingers go down, as if my eyelids were sleepy.

As for the noun form, I guess the same sign is applicable, or this could be used;

The 'prayer' sign, but next to one's ear, and the head tilted towards that sign a little bit, as if I were going to bed. (The usual one-handed sign for 'bed' is good enough for me!)

There is different way for this word of Sleepy that it shows the movement from inverted "handshape on my face, the palm facing me , and my fingers go down, as if my eyelids were sleepy (two times instead of just one time for sleep. Just a thought to share with you.

Thanks!
Sweetmind

 

[Interpretrator]

Though I do realize you might have mean interpret as in translate, not necessarily as "to interpret" as an interpreter would do.

Changing an English sentence to ASL or vice versa is interpreting, no matter the hearing status of the person doing it, because it's changing a text or utterance from one language into another. (Transliterating is moving from one form of the language to another, as in spoken English to signed English, and translating refers to written language.) It doesn't necessarily have to refer to the job of interpreting.

Also there are deaf interpreters.

(I know you know all this.)

 

[ayala920]

Changing an English sentence to ASL or vice versa is interpreting, no matter the hearing status of the person doing it, because it's changing a text or utterance from one language into another. (Transliterating is moving from one form of the language to another, as in spoken English to signed English, and translating refers to written language.) It doesn't necessarily have to refer to the job of interpreting.

Also there are deaf interpreters.

(I know you know all this.)

There are reasons why I shouldn't post when sleep-deprived.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Thanks must go to me_punctured and interpretator for indepth discussions on this topic. I now realize that my knowledge of ASL and more particularly, its grammatical structure, to be wholly superficial. I just know ASL and spout it like it was my second nature, never really thinking about how I just do it, or how I should structure my signs accordingly.

 

[Interpretrator]

There are reasons why I shouldn't post when sleep-deprived.

Ha ha...please, that was nowhere near as bad as some of the posts I've made when I'm not thinking straight.

I just know ASL and spout it like it was my second nature, never really thinking about how I just do it, or how I should structure my signs accordingly.

I'm sure you've mentioned it but I've forgotten -- how did you learn ASL? I think really the only way you would consciously sign according to the grammatical rules is if you learned it formally as a second language (as opposed to as a first language or from friends, etc.). While I am a language teacher (and grammar geek), I admit I'm not sure it's entirely necessary for all users of a language to know all the ins and outs, unless they are doing work like teaching, interpreting, translating, and so forth.

I do know that as soon as I start taking apart what I know and consciously applying rules, it completely breaks down. Like if I'm driving and I start actually thinking about what I'm doing, suddenly it all becomes very awkward. Languages are like that too.

 

[me_punctured]

Thanks must go to me_punctured and interpretator for indepth discussions on this topic. I now realize that my knowledge of ASL and more particularly, its grammatical structure, to be wholly superficial. I just know ASL and spout it like it was my second nature, never really thinking about how I just do it, or how I should structure my signs accordingly.

Don't beat yourself up for not explicitly articulating the grammatical rules of ASL! Most people already have the mental grammar of their native (or dominant) language stored in their brains, but the knowledge of the mental grammar is largely unconscious. Second nature as you just said, Eyeth. Linguists try to figure out the rules of a language and make them explicit, which is not an easy job, because the rules are not linear and straightforward.

Now I think about it, I'd never use 'comparative' itself as a vocabulary word in ASL without translating it in a whole sentence, unless I need to fingerspell it for transliterating purposes. Besides, 'comparative' isn't one of the more commonly words we use in English speech!