Observation

[jillio]

My take on HOH's post is that when we state our thoughts or experiences, we get shot down, et. al. So basically YOUR perspective is the one that's allowed, acknowledged and valued. Not ours.

Bingo!

 

[jillio]

Do you really have the stats to show what would be considered the "majority" or the "minority"? Sometime we come to that conclusion simply based on the people we're surrounded with.

I do, yes. Staying current on the research is a part of my job. Using that research to advocate is also a part of my job.

 

[shel90]

Do you really have the stats to show what would be considered the "majority" or the "minority"? Sometime we come to that conclusion simply based on the people we're surrounded with.

She has shown them but people still refuse to acknowledge them so why should she show them again?

 

[deafdyke]

Maybe it's also a question of that some of you may be underestimating that the "past does not equal to the future". And that the "HA's of the past weren't as good as the CI's of the current, especially for the profoundly deaf".

I also get the impression that some of you that are harping on about how difficult it was to grow up deaf and all that may actually be in their 30's, 40's, 50's or even 60's, etc... Just to put it in perspective.

Hohtopics, I am "only" audilogically hoh (moderately severe sloping to profound loss) I can hear REALLY well with hearing aids. According to pedagogal thinking I am "more hearing then deaf" Yet, I experianced virtually ALL of the downsides of mainstreaming and oral only that a severe or profoundly deaf kid did.
Technology is AMAZING, yes.....but it cannot make a dhh person functionally hearing!
Even late deaf folks complain about how they don't fit into the hearing world! (and they are ex hearing!) I am on a ton of listservs for parents of dhh kids, I see the same shit that shel and I and MANY others went through being repeated day in and day out. Besides, if technology and minimal accomondations at a mainstream school, is all that's needed then how come we have parents of dhh kids in this very forum, who were told " Oh just mainstream them, they just need minimal accomondations" Then circumstances conspired so that they got sent to deaf school or deaf program......(and these were kids who were pretty much oral sucesses...not oral failures or kids who were visably struggling...they were dogpaddling basicly) and the parents are now amazed at how well their kids are doing!

 

[Miss-Delectable]

Guess what? Hohtopics is profoundly deaf from my understanding and yet he labels himself as HOH. Methinks it is to make him feel superior to little old us.

My mother thinks Hohtopics is in denial and a idiot to boot. Sorry to be harsh but it has to be said.

So I suggest from now on we don't pay any attention to hohtopics or anyone like him.

By the way, deaf kids in the 80s, 90s and 2000s, they're still being denied appropriate accommodations in schools and discriminated. So it's not old news, it's still current and ongoing.

 

[Hohtopics]

Guess what? Hohtopics is profoundly deaf from my understanding and yet he labels himself as HOH. Methinks it is to make him feel superior to little old us.

Just for the record, it's actually some of the deaf that have told me that I shouldn't call myself "hearing-impaired". And instead should call myself hard of hearing. Sometime it depends on who I'm talking to or what the situation calls for.

 

[Hohtopics]

I do, yes. Staying current on the research is a part of my job. Using that research to advocate is also a part of my job.

Well, you just mentioned in another thread that you only knew 35 CI users. That's not many. Sometime we do get a bit influenced by who we're surrounded with. And that even as an hearing person that if you're basically "culturally deaf oriented", you're more likely to be surrounded with mostly just the culturally deaf.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I haven't been actively involved in this forum for a while and it is because of some members' superior attitudes towards the Deaf Community here. It sickens me.

I won't name any names and it's not allowed anyhow. Those people know who I am talking about.

I find it terribly sad that a hearing mother of a Deaf child with a CI has to spend a lot of her time boasting about her child's accomplishments to the point she is gloating when she can spend the same amount of time with her daughter.

It was at a time I mentioned to her when she spent over 12 hours in this forum in a panic-mode replying to threads, creating threads and so on. I made the comment to her where her daughter was and if she had been paying attention to her daughter as well. Apparently some hard-core patterns are so ingrained, they just don't realise the damage they inflect upon others.

Research is not meant to be used for back-pedalling retorts, "in your face" evidence, it's meant to help us with the past-present-future.

I learned about research in college and it is a LOT of work, it's made me appreciate the researchers' position when they dedicate their time and energy into researching.

Please remember when you are stepping into the Deaf Community, there are long-standing unspoken courtesies meant to be respected. Stepping over your boundaries here makes you instantly our frenemy. Trust is so easy to lose YET so hard to gain.

Now some of you wonder why we are just so hesitant to even take your word, it's because your hearing community abused us over and over. A vicious cycle that jillio, an honourary Deafie, is trying to break yet you have others who just replies right next to her over and over again which makes a lot of us wary of the hearing community.

This thread started with research via jillio's opinion and experience only to have a certain member projecting her issues again and again.

Please.. stop. It's getting cumbersome. This is our community; Deaf community. Respect it or leave it.

 

[Beowulf]

I haven't been actively involved in this forum for a while and it is because of some members' superior attitudes towards the Deaf Community here. It sickens me.

I won't name any names and it's not allowed anyhow. Those people know who I am talking about.

I find it terribly sad that a hearing mother of a Deaf child with a CI has to spend a lot of her time boasting about her child's accomplishments to the point she is gloating when she can spend the same amount of time with her daughter.

It was at a time I mentioned to her when she spent over 12 hours in this forum in a panic-mode replying to threads, creating threads and so on. I made the comment to her where her daughter was and if she had been paying attention to her daughter as well. Apparently some hard-core patterns are so ingrained, they just don't realise the damage they inflect upon others.

Research is not meant to be used for back-pedalling retorts, "in your face" evidence, it's meant to help us with the past-present-future.

I learned about research in college and it is a LOT of work, it's made me appreciate the researchers' position when they dedicate their time and energy into researching.

Please remember when you are stepping into the Deaf Community, there are long-standing unspoken courtesies meant to be respected. Stepping over your boundaries here makes you instantly our frenemy. Trust is so easy to lose YET so hard to gain.

Now some of you wonder why we are just so hesitant to even take your word, it's because your hearing community abused us over and over. A vicious cycle that jillio, an honourary Deafie, is trying to break yet you have others who just replies right next to her over and over again which makes a lot of us wary of the hearing community.

This thread started with research via jillio's opinion and experience only to have a certain member projecting her issues again and again.

Please.. stop. It's getting cumbersome. This is our community; Deaf community. Respect it or leave it.

You need to stop stealing our words.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

You need to stop stealing our words.

Beo!!

 

[posts from hell]

Well, you just mentioned in another thread that you only knew 35 CI users. That's not many. Sometime we do get a bit influenced by who we're surrounded with. And that even as an hearing person that if you're basically "culturally deaf oriented", you're more likely to be surrounded with mostly just the culturally deaf.

Learn to read, again. She said "personally know" - I do not even know that many personally.

 

[jillio]

Well, you just mentioned in another thread that you only knew 35 CI users. That's not many. Sometime we do get a bit influenced by who we're surrounded with. And that even as an hearing person that if you're basically "culturally deaf oriented", you're more likely to be surrounded with mostly just the culturally deaf.

Correction: I stated that I personally knew 35 unilateral CI users. I have contact with many more than I can claim to personally know. Take a little more time to read and comprehend my posts. And when you attempt to quote me, do not take it out of context and omit word.

 

[jillio]

I haven't been actively involved in this forum for a while and it is because of some members' superior attitudes towards the Deaf Community here. It sickens me.

I won't name any names and it's not allowed anyhow. Those people know who I am talking about.

I find it terribly sad that a hearing mother of a Deaf child with a CI has to spend a lot of her time boasting about her child's accomplishments to the point she is gloating when she can spend the same amount of time with her daughter.

It was at a time I mentioned to her when she spent over 12 hours in this forum in a panic-mode replying to threads, creating threads and so on. I made the comment to her where her daughter was and if she had been paying attention to her daughter as well. Apparently some hard-core patterns are so ingrained, they just don't realise the damage they inflect upon others.

Research is not meant to be used for back-pedalling retorts, "in your face" evidence, it's meant to help us with the past-present-future.

I learned about research in college and it is a LOT of work, it's made me appreciate the researchers' position when they dedicate their time and energy into researching.

Please remember when you are stepping into the Deaf Community, there are long-standing unspoken courtesies meant to be respected. Stepping over your boundaries here makes you instantly our frenemy. Trust is so easy to lose YET so hard to gain.

Now some of you wonder why we are just so hesitant to even take your word, it's because your hearing community abused us over and over. A vicious cycle that jillio, an honourary Deafie, is trying to break yet you have others who just replies right next to her over and over again which makes a lot of us wary of the hearing community.

This thread started with research via jillio's opinion and experience only to have a certain member projecting her issues again and again.

Please.. stop. It's getting cumbersome. This is our community; Deaf community. Respect it or leave it.

Very eloquent Mrs. B. And I sincerely thank you.

 

[BecLak]

Yea, I need to work on being objective when it comes to Deaf education. It gets hard when I feel as if my experiences in the Deaf ed field gets dismissed such as for example, "your views are skewed because you only see kids who have failed so and so." Then, I take it personal because it is something I feel strongly about. Just a sensitive topic for me because of what I am seeing out there.

Shel, the world needs more passionate people like you. There is too much 'political correctness' flying around so much so that people are numbing themselves to the real issues that pertain to basic human rights. The object of 'political correctness' is that everyone is supposed to be in a win-win situation but there is always someone who loses out.

 

[BecLak]

Very true but more true for the deaf. It can fill the gap they miss with speech. That's a big part how come I did so well academically.

Bingo! The cat is out of the bag. Yes, reading is one of the main survival tools of the oral-only mainstreamed deaf. That's how I have managed to learn a little of foreign language, due to learning to read in the language first. Ironically enough, it was the same with English (my first language).

 

[BecLak]

Maybe it's also a question of that when some of the deaf that you and some of the other AD'ers are insisting are the "minority" tried to state some of their thoughts, experience or opinions they get shot down and are told that they "have self esteem issues" or "should be ashamed of themselves" or "are bragging" or "have reading comprehension difficulties" or "have low standards" and so on... :roll:

I agree, in my opinion, it would serve in the best interests of everyone to re-write the dictionary on terms commonly used in relation to deaf issues to bridge better understanding and awareness.

 

[BecLak]

Very eloquent Mrs. B. And I sincerely thank you.

Thank you Mrs B

 

[deafdyke]

Unfortunately, for some kids in some mainsteam placements, the social issues are so distracting that it affects their academic performance negatively. T

jillo, stop knowing so much about my life! It's funny thou. I have a more complicated syndrome, and I KNOW my parents think that my social emotional issues are due to the syndrome. But the more I read about deaf ed research, the more I reconize myself. I actually want to write a literary journalism book like Savage Inequalities (the book about how crappy inner city education is) about special ed in the mainstream. It does seem like the ONLY reason why mainstreaming is even popular is b/c mainstream schools get extra money from the kids. They can give a kid minimal accomodnations and that is just fine and dandy for their compliance with the law. They don't generally give a shit about the education a disabled kid gets...after all (sarcasm) they're just going to end up on disabilty(/sarcasm) Things have NOT changed sadly. I mean it's pretty much a fact that if you're a solotaire you get "Resource Room" style sped accomondations. Unless you're a superstar and thrive with minimal accomondaitons, you get lumped in with kids who are mostly learning and behavorial sped. That really is a MAJOR MAJOR reason why mainstreaming hasn't worked well. Some kids have done well yes..(which is why I am a HUGE fan of continuum of placement) but overall, most solotaire mainstreamed kids fall through the cracks!
Also, good post Mrs. Bucket. Very good. I do have to add that the poster seems to be very anxious about her child's sucess. That is ANOTHER reason why I think oral only is not good. It preys too much on a parent's anxiety and adds too much to it. We KNOW the anxiety that parents have.

Guess what? Hohtopics is profoundly deaf from my understanding and yet he labels himself as HOH. Methinks it is to make him feel superior to little old us.
Just for the record, it's actually some of the deaf that have told me that I shouldn't call myself "hearing-impaired". And instead should call myself hard of hearing. Sometime it depends on who I'm talking to or what the situation calls for.

Agreed on both counts. You are hoh, but you seem to idenitfy more as HLAA style hoh rather then "best of both worlds hoh" Heck, I think I'd even call you hearing impaired.

 

[deafdyke]

I was mainstreamed back in 1967 and did just fine. My mom (no helicopter parent) just made sure that the teacher understood what they were dealing with. I did well enough hearing wise with a HA to be able to handle it. Academically it wasn't a problem. It was the social arena that was tough. I survived that...WHEW! It wasn't bullying and all that stuff (none of that really went on for me) but rather I didn't fit until college. Yeah, some scars socially but it all rounded out in later years.

Not surprised. I'm not saying that ALL kids who are sucessfully mainstreamed are the result of helicopter parenting. And as a matter of fact, it does seem like sucessful mainstreamig ad sucessful oral only tends to be a result of many different factors that have to be "just right" in order to be sucessful. Change one or two of those factors and it can turn into a student who is just dogpaddling.
And as a matter of fact, I wonder if dhh and blind/low vision kids who were mainstreamed pre 1974 may have been able to do better b/c they weren't shackled by being a "Resource Room" kid. The public school system saw the mainstreamed dhh ad blind/low vision kids as "the smart ones" rather then " oh gawd....one of those kids that we have to make "special accomondations" for (in other words treating us like we're those kids whose parents diagnosed/doctor shopped for a dx of whatever, so their kids could get an edge through untimed tests and stuff like that)
Bear in mind, I am ALL for continuum of placement. Meaning everything from solotaire mainstreaming to going to Deaf School. I just think that solotaire mainstreaming needs to be VERY VERY carefully monitored and not a kneejerk placement.

 

[shel90]

Shel, the world needs more passionate people like you. There is too much 'political correctness' flying around so much so that people are numbing themselves to the real issues that pertain to basic human rights. The object of 'political correctness' is that everyone is supposed to be in a win-win situation but there is always someone who loses out.

Thank you.