Not Deaf, just a fan of ASL...

CliffJones

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Hi, I'm a linguist living in El Paso Texas. I haven't really had much interaction with the Deaf community, but my brother is severely autistic and semi-verbal, and we've tried some signing with him. Mostly, I just love language, and I'm particularly fascinated by the phonology of signed languages (i.e., the system of rules that govern handshapes, movements, etc.).

I am of the opinion that signing is a very natural way for humans to communicate and probably predates spoken language by quite a bit. It was probably the book Original Signs, by David F. Armstrong, that got me interested in devising a writing system for ASL (which could then be adapted for other signed languages). What I've come up with, after years of tinkering off and on, is RomaSign. Please check it out and let me know what you think. Not being much of a signer, I can use all the help I can get!

By the way, my name is Cliff Jones, and I've chosen "Kufyon" as my name sign (for now at least). In the RomaSign system, that indicates a flat hand ("k") facing out ("y") from the chest ("o") pushing away ("n") a fist ("uf"). I chose it mostly for the phonetic similarity to "Cliff Jones". I'm wondering A) is it bad form to name yourself, and B) what impression does the gesture I've described give you? I wouldn't want to name myself something terrible! :ty: Thanks for your help!
 
Other systems

Yes, I'm familiar with si5s, and several other systems, but I don't believe they address the problems I tackled with RomaSign. The system I found to be the most user-friendly was ASLphabet, but it requires a special font and yields way too many homographs for my liking.
 
By the way, my name is Cliff Jones, and I've chosen "Kufyon" as my name sign (for now at least). In the RomaSign system, that indicates a flat hand ("k") facing out ("y") from the chest ("o") pushing away ("n") a fist ("uf"). I chose it mostly for the phonetic similarity to "Cliff Jones". I'm wondering A) is it bad form to name yourself, and B) what impression does the gesture I've described give you? I wouldn't want to name myself something terrible! :ty: Thanks for your help!

A) Yes.
B) That you don't understand at all how Name Signs work.


(P.S. I do realise that this post is from a while back)
 
I think....O.P. giving himself Name sign - cultural misappropriation :(
also..hearing playing around with ASL like that.... :|

Deaf give Name Signs.....

Regarding date...yes, I know too, but thought as it seems we have many new people....
 
It wouldn't be so bad if that actually was a name sign... it's just a mushing of various shapes and movements together!!
 
Sorry.

I certainly didn't intend any cultural misappropriation. I'm just a busy guy with no time for a social life, and I haven't happened to receive a name sign yet. RomaSign is the only system of its kind that I'm aware of, and as a naive non-Deaf person, I feel that it has value.

Forget my proposed name sign though. That obviously won't fly.

@dogmom: If you see what I've done as just "playing around", then feel free to disregard it. Romanization schemes are a hobby of mine, and ASL has been a puzzle that's taken me some time to crack. What I have at RomaSign.com is a first draft (well, more like third), and if you feel it wouldn't work, I'd appreciate some commentary as to why not. If the reason is simply because I'm not Deaf, then that's disheartening. I certainly wouldn't discount an English spelling reform proposal because its author was Deaf.

@ceptxj: Yep, still in El Paso.

@hoichi: Thanks!
 
I live in El Paso as well. Have you gotten involved in the Deaf community in El Paso?
 
I think....O.P. giving himself Name sign - cultural misappropriation :(
also..hearing playing around with ASL like that.... :|

Deaf give Name Signs.....

Regarding date...yes, I know too, but thought as it seems we have many new people....

It really is not doing anyone any harm .
 
I certainly didn't intend any cultural misappropriation. I'm just a busy guy with no time for a social life, and I haven't happened to receive a name sign yet. RomaSign is the only system of its kind that I'm aware of, and as a naive non-Deaf person, I feel that it has value.

There are plenty of systems for writing ASL (They're all only "ok" at best. Writing ASL is like trying to describe a colour in text, without referencing other colours... it just doesn't work the way a picture/video does.)

Forget my proposed name sign though. That obviously won't fly.!

Not everyone (even in the Deaf Community) has a Name Sign.

Cliff is short, and flows so well, it doesn't really need a Name Sign at all, even if you were involved heavily in the Community.

(P.S. If you aren't actively involved with the Deaf/Signing Community there is absolutely no point in having a Name Sign at all anyway.)
 
@ceptxj: No, I'm not currently involved in any community whatsoever (unless you count the Internet). I work from home as a developer and spend my free time with my wife and daughter.

@Anij: Are you saying I'd just fingerspell "Cliff"? Mostly I want to know how to refer to myself in ASL so I know how to do it using RomaSign.
 
@ceptxj: No, I'm not currently involved in any community whatsoever (unless you count the Internet). I work from home as a developer and spend my free time with my wife and daughter.

@Anij: Are you saying I'd just fingerspell "Cliff"? Mostly I want to know how to refer to myself in ASL so I know how to do it using RomaSign.

First bold, if you are interest in signing ASL instead of RomaSign (which on 3rd bold), then you need to get into the ASL class and learn how to use ASL properly and learn about Deaf Culture. If you are not in the Deaf community or Deaf events, the Deaf person would give you ASL sign for your name otherwise you just have to spell "Cliff" when being introduced to Deaf people.

I don't understand why you are interest in RomaSign which has nothing to do here in USA. If you want to know about Deaf and Hard Of Hearing (HOH) people, then use the proper way to communicate with ASL, not RomaSign.

If you want to communicate with your autistic brother in ASL instead of RomaSign, then he will be able to communicate with other autistic or Deaf person otherwise he will confuse them with not familiar sign for RomaSign. So use your thinking cap what you are doing to your brother.
 
Yep, Cliff Jones is here. Sorry about my mistake on looking at the month and date of 2014 and he is presently here. Pardon me. **bow in apology**
 
Hello, Cliff!!

I'm looking to improve my signing and it would be so good to practice. You can find me on skype as monievargas.

:)
 
@Bebonang: Who said anything about me using RomaSign with my brother? My brother can't read, so that wouldn't make any sense. RomaSign is simply a written form of ASL, not a different language.
 
@monievargas: I'm 'mrcliffjones' on Skype, but I'm not sure how much help I'd be as a conversation partner right now. I would probably make your signing worse. :) Still, I plan to improve once my work situation calms down a bit, so yeah, let's be in touch.
 
I googled to see what RomaSign is as I have never see this before. So here it is that you had invented, I think.

How to Spell a Sign
Components of a Sign
Primary Handshape
Secondary Handshape
Orientation
Location
Movement Direction
Movement Type
Compounds and Fingerspelling
Contrary to the assumptions of many, "sign language" is not some sort of universal pantomime, and American Sign Language is in no way a manual code for English. ASL is a language in its own right, not always used where English is spoken (e.g., England) and used in many places where English is not (e.g., Thailand). So no, written English is not the same thing as written ASL.

The RomaSign system was designed to solve a couple of related problems, namely how to record ASL production and how to deal with it in a computer-friendly way. Recording video captures the language in detail, but it doesn't lend itself well to technology like search engines, email, and text messaging. Besides, it's not always convenient to record and play back video.

As the name suggests, RomaSign makes use of the Roman alphabet. It could be considered a Romanization scheme for ASL. Just as languages like Japanese and Russian can be written using the Roman alphabet, so can ASL. What really makes RomaSign unique is that it can actually be spoken as well as signed. This gives hearing learners a much-needed foothold, allowing them to remember signs more easily and even talk about them in English.

Now that we've got the basic introduction out of the way, let's move on to the fun part: writing in ASL!

Components of a Sign:
A sign in ASL (or any other signed language) can be broken down into a few distinct components that convey its meaning: handshape, orientation, location, movement, and non-manual signals such as facial expression. While non-manual signals are important, RomaSign treats them a bit like intonation in English, leaving it to the reader to make use of punctuation and context. The four remaining components (in the order given here) determine the spelling of each sign.

For example, the ASL word vranu means something like "sell". The beginning "v" indicates that both hands are making a flat O shape (O). That's the handshape component. Next is an "r", which means that the palms are facing down. That covers orientation. The main vowel, "a", indicates that the sign is located in the neutral signing space, the open area in front in the signer's chest and face. The "n" indicates movement away from the signer. Finally, the "u" indicates a curving or twisting motion. Putting it all together, a user of RomaSign can read the word vranu, "sound it out" manually as just described, and be understood by a user of ASL.



Primary Handshape:
The "primary" handshape is the one used by the dominant hand at the start of a sign. RomaSign does not record all the possible handshape distinctions made by ASL, but with a total of 36, it comes pretty close. The following table shows how to spell the various handshapes.

t/s d/z p/f b/v k/x g/j
i 1 u i d Y PD
e rR v y f I7 8
u xX VUW s TF e SEQ
o t nN m o CM w
gGL kK a O b 4
a l 3H A c B 5
For a given handshape, begin with the vowel of its row (if there is one), and follow up with the first consonant of its column ("t", "d", "p", "b", "k", or "g"). These sounds are called stops because they are pronounced with a short stoppage of airflow.

If the sign is made with two hands, both making the same shape, use the column's second consonant instead ("s", "z", "f", "v", "x", or "j"). These letters are used to represent fricatives, sounds made with continuous airflow. The letters "x" and "j" represent the middle sounds in "machine" and "measure", respectively. (These are often spelled "sh" and "zh" in other Romanization schemes.)

This arrangement is not arbitrary; it makes use of sound symbolism, a natural correspondence between handshapes and speech sounds. The basic pattern is as follows:

i, t/s = pointing
e, d/z = split
u, p/f = curled
o, b/v = grabbing
(no vowel), k/x = flat
a, g/j = open
Using this terminology, The 1 handshape (1) is "pointing", V (v) is "split", S (s) is "curled", O (o) is "grabbing", B (b) is "flat", and 5 (5) is "open". So the R handshape (r) could be described as a "split point" (spelled "et"), the U handshape (u) could be described as a "pointing split" (spelled "id"), and so on.



Secondary Handshape:
For two-handed signs where the non-dominant hand does not use the primary handshape, a secondary handshape must be specified. In this situation, however, only a limited repertoire of handshapes are used. The following table shows a bit more flexibility than the first one, which reflects the reduced importance of the secondary hand in ASL.

s z f v x j
i 1
e v
u s
o oO CM
a lgGL Aa c Bb 54
Many ASL signs (especially name signs) use the handshape of a fingerspelled letter or number to connect the sign with an English equivalent. If this is considered important, a capital letter or number can be used in place of the primary handshape, followed by a hyphen. This does not affect the representation of a secondary handshape, except in the case where both hands match. In this situation, an "h" should follow the hyphen to indicate that the secondary hand is in use, but its shape is no different from that of the primary hand.

For example, the word eswahu translates to "room" (though axwahu is more common). The beginning "es" indicates that both hands are making an R shape (r). An alternate way to write this word would be "R-hwahu". The one-handed sign etrah ("right") would simply be "R-rah", without an added "h". The two-handed etaxeru ("rule") would be "R-axeru". Of course, these are only alternative spellings. Such substitutions are normally unnecessary.



Orientation:
This is the direction that the palm of the primary hand is facing at the start of the sign. By default, it is assumed to be facing the opposite side, so no extra letter is needed to indicate this. The following letters should be pronounced with their normal English values ("light", "red", "yellow", and "water"), but it's perfectly fine to add in an extra syllable if that helps. (Vranu would sound more like "vuh-rah-noo" or "ver-rah-noo".)

(default) = palm sideways
l = palm facing up
r = palm facing down
y = palm outward, away from signer
w = palm inward, toward signer
To aid in committing these associations to memory, it may be helpful to learn how they were chosen. "L" and "r" are very similar sounds (known as liquids), but "l" is more light and elegant, and "r" is rougher and heavier. Therefore, "l" points up, and "r" points down. (A lowercase "l" is also taller than "r", so there's that too.) "Y" and "w" (known as semivowels) can be associated with the words you (pointing forward to the observer) and we (pointing back to the signer). Also, the Mandarin word for "me" is wǒ, so that strengthens the "w" sound's association with the first person.



Location:
The signing space is divided very roughly into five categories. "Neutral space" is distinguished from the "secondary hand" in many two-handed signs only by whether the secondary hand seems to be more mirroring the primary hand or serving passively as the location of the primary hand's movement. In all cases, the vowels should be pronounced pretty much as they are in Spanish ("father", "there", "machine", "store", and "rude").

a = neutral signing space
e = secondary hand, forearm, elbow
o = chest, torso, shoulder, upper arm, thigh
i = brow, eyes, nose, head, temple
u = mouth, chin, cheek, jaw, neck
"I" and "u" are the high vowels (made with the tongue highest in the mouth), so they are associated with the head. Since "u" is pronounced with rounded lips, it is associated with the mouth area. The mid vowels "e" and "o" are articulated a little lower in the signing space. Since "e" is a front vowel (pronounced with the tongue pushed forward in the mouth), it represents the hand/forearm location farther from the signer. The back vowel "o" represents the chest/torso location closer to the signer. "A" is the most open vowel, so it represents the signing space farthest away from the body.



Movement Direction:
This one is tricky because many signs include movement in more than one direction. This is meant to indicate the overall direction that the primary hand moves, but if the primary hand returns to its original position, it may indicate only the starting direction. The default direction indicator is "h", which may indicate horizontal movement or no movement at all. Similarly, it may be pronounced as it is in English, or it may be silent.

h = horizontal, stationary
l = up
r = down
n = outward, away from signer
m = inward, toward signer
"H" is easy enough to remember as an indicator of horizontal movement. As with orientation, "l" and "r" are again associated with up and down. "N" and "m" (known as nasals) replace the semivowels "y" and "w" in this context. "M" can be associated with the word me easily enough. If you need an association for "n", the Mandarin word for "you" is nǐ.



Movement Type:
This component is somewhat open to interpretation. A few similar movement types are considered equivalent purely for convenience. In general, "a" indicates repetition, "i" indicates sharp movement, and "u" indicates rounded movement. "E" and "o" are similar to "i" and "u", but they involve repetition. If it helps, you can imagine that they are spelled "ai" and "au", respectively.

(default) = straight, stationary
a = repeated, alternating
i = hand movement, change in handshape
e = shaken, wiggled, angled, wavy, repeated hand movement
u = curved, twisting
o = circular, looping, repeated twisting


Compounds and Fingerspelling:
If two signs are produced as a unit, perhaps with some detail left out of one or both of the signs, they should be connected in writing using a hyphen. A common example of this is the suffix -xar, meaning "person" or "agent". In its full form, "person" may be expressed as zrar, with hands in the P shape (k), but as part of a compound, flat hands (b) are used. For most compounds, no spelling adjustment is necessary, but this is a common exception.

Some signs seem to be composed of two distinct movements in sequence. For example, the sign for "deaf" (one of them, at least) involves tapping an index finger near the ear and then tapping near the mouth. Such signs may be written as hyphenated compounds to better represent their articulation. For "deaf", this would be "itih-itum". However, since the handshape component ("it") is repeated exactly, it can be omitted from the second part of the sign, leaving us with itih-um.

Fingerspelled words can be thought of as compounds, with each letter being potentially an individual word, but in this case, no hyphens are necessary. Simply write the fingerspelled word using all capital letters. So the ASL word for "ASL" is (you guessed it) ASL.

You are doing this for your benefit as a hearing person, not as a Deaf person.

We would rather have ASL as part of Deaf Culture and for communication.
 
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