more interpreter issues...UGH!

[Jiro]

Right, that's the issue. It's also the law that kids have qualified terps, but as Jillio and PFH pointed out, that's not how it really works in real life. There are a lot of substandard terps in public ed. It's actually one of the factors that led me towards the approach we are taking. But, as Csign pointed out, parents need to stand up and make certain that law is being enforced.

lol.

 

[GrendelQ]

thank you! that's why it's infuriating when us deaf people speak from experience saying 'well, the truth is..." and we get told we're wrong or we get corrected or our posts get deliberately misunderstood or overlooked. I would really appreciate it if some hearing parents just drop their hypersensitive and hyper-self-defensive egos and stop doing that.

OK. What's your perspective on the issue, deafcaroline? Do you think that parents who aren't certified terps or native ASL users themselves don't have the right to insist their children have certified terps? That since they can't expertly judge the quality of the terp, basing their decisions on credentials (or lack of), their deaf child's feedback, and their own inexpert observation is irrelevant?

 

[jillio]

lol.

Right. We need to throw all of these "shoulds" "woulds" and "coulds" out of the window and examine and correct what is.

 

[posts from hell]

OK. What's your perspective on the issue, deafcaroline? Do you think that parents who aren't certified terps or native ASL users themselves don't have the right to insist their children have certified terps? That since they can't expertly judge the quality of the terp, basing their decisions on credentials (or lack of), their deaf child's feedback, and their own inexpert observation is irrelevant?

lol, pick another time to be a try hard. we all seen what you just tried to pull.

 

[jillio]

lol, pick another time to be a try hard. we all seen what you just tried to pull.

You know, parents have a lot of rights that they are not aware of. Parents have a lot of rights that they choose not to exercise. Parents have their own motivations, and unfortunately, those motivations are often in conflict with the best environment for the deaf child. If anyone takes offense at that, I'm sorry they find it offensive. It is simply a fact of the life of the average deaf child.

 

[posts from hell]

You know, parents have a lot of rights that they are not aware of. Parents have a lot of rights that they choose not to exercise. Parents have their own motivations, and unfortunately, those motivations are often in conflict with the best environment for the deaf child. If anyone takes offense at that, I'm sorry they find it offensive. It is simply a fact of the life of the average deaf child.

I know. If one looked past their own child and see that education among the deaf is pretty dismal their statements here on the forum would be totally different.

 

[jillio]

I know. If one looked past their own child and see that education among the deaf is pretty dismal their statements here on the forum would be totally different.

Agreed. My concern is not my child...that is history at this point. My concern is now, and has been for years, the children that I continue to see being underserved and undereducated. I saw it when my son was in school, and it is one of the main things that motivated me to go back to school to gain the credentials I needed to carry some weight. I knew my son would be provided for because I was there to do it for him. My concern was the kids who were suffering because their parents either did not know what to do, or were not motivated for the fight. And I have seen far too many of them for my taste.

 

[Mountain Man]

Are you thinking that some parents don't fight against being assigned an uncertified interpreter because they are "desperate to make their child 'normal'"? Do you mean that they don't want to rock the boat and be seen as a troublemaker and are willing to let their child suffer with substandard services?

Or no services at all. Yes, it happens with unfortunate regularity.

 

[DeafCaroline]

OK. What's your perspective on the issue, deafcaroline? Do you think that parents who aren't certified terps or native ASL users themselves don't have the right to insist their children have certified terps? That since they can't expertly judge the quality of the terp, basing their decisions on credentials (or lack of), their deaf child's feedback, and their own inexpert observation is irrelevant?

My perspective is you're missing the point either intentionally or unintentionally and you do this so often that I feel no desire to try to have a discussion with you. It's futile.

 

[Mountain Man]

It was this: parents have the right to insist on qualified terps -- even if they themselves are not native users of ASL. Just as I may not know how to remove a tooth, myself, and can't eyeball a dentist's skill, I have the right to insist that my daughter's dentist is credentialed.

The problem is that most parents aren't informed enough to even know to question an interpreter's qualifications. They might observe a class and see the interpreter's hands moving quickly and smoothly and think, "Wow, she's really good," then they'll look at their son who is watching the interpreter attentively and occasionally nodding, and they'll think everything is fine. Little do they know that the interpreter was not using conceptually accurate signs, and because she was overwhelmed by the speed at which the teacher was talking, she was quickly summarizing and leaving out a great deal of crucial information. At the next IEP meeting, the parents praise the skill of the interpreter and then turn to the matter of trying to figure why their son just doesn't seem to be performing at the same level as his peers.

 

[jillio]

The problem is that most parents aren't informed enough to even know to question an interpreter's qualifications. They might observe a class and see the interpreter's hands moving quickly and smoothly and think, "Wow, she's really good," then they'll look at their son who is watching the interpreter attentively and occasionally nodding, and they'll think everything is fine. Little do they know that the interpreter was not using conceptually accurate signs, and because she was overwhelmed by the speed at which the teacher was talking, she was quickly summarizing and leaving out a great deal of crucial information. At the next IEP meeting, the parents praise the skill of the interpreter and then turn to the matter of trying to figure why their son just doesn't seem to be performing at the same level as his peers.

Bingo! And then the child is labeled with all sorts of academic functioning difficulties that are blamed on either his IQ or his deafness. Then, once a teacher has had that experience with one child, they expect it from the next deaf child they encounter. Children pay the price for ineffective accommodation in more ways than one.

The terp's skills are rarely questioned. It is assumed that the problems originate within the child and are the result of the deafness. I mean, how can the terp be responsible...he/she is "normal".

There are many ethical and highly qualified terps in the specialization of educational interpreting. Reba happens to be one of them. Unfortunately, she is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[CSign]

would you be able to interpret for your son in classes?

I have interpreted for my son when we weren't able to get a terp provided in time. Not at school, but for his extra-curricular activities.

So to answer your question, yes.

 

[Jiro]

I have interpreted for my son when we weren't able to get a terp provided in time. Not at school, but for his extra-curricular activities.

So to answer your question, yes.

I specifically asked if you would be able to terp for your son in classes.

 

[GrendelQ]

My perspective is you're missing the point either intentionally or unintentionally and you do this so often that I feel no desire to try to have a discussion with you. It's futile.

No, that's a cop out. I think you just wanted to pile-on in an argument, but didn't actually take the time to figure out that this wasn't an argument at all, but a discussion about school interpreters from a whole range of people who interact with them (or are them), which is turning into a very informative whole as these pieces are coming together.

 

[jillio]

would you be able to interpret for your son in classes?

I would never presume to have the skills to interpret for my son, or any other student, in a classroom. And I am a fluent ASL user with an above average knowledge of specialized terminology. Interpreting is a skill that is very specialized. People think all it is is taking what is said and making it visual. It is so much more than that. I have the greatest respect for well trained and qualified interpreters. And I am realistic enough to know that it takes much more than a simple fluency in ASL and English to interpret.

The failure to understand exactly what an interpreter does leads to a great degree of misunderstanding.

And people also fail to realize that the line between terp and parent never should be blurred.

 

[DeafCaroline]

No, that's a cop out. I think you just wanted to pile-on in an argument, but didn't actually take the time to figure out that this wasn't an argument at all, but a discussion about school interpreters from a whole range of people who interact with them (or are them), which is turning into a very informative whole as these pieces are coming together.

Think whatever you want.

 

[jillio]

I specifically asked if you would be able to terp for your son in classes.

Right. Comprehension is not as important at a basketball game as it is for a math class.

 

[Jiro]

No, that's a cop out. I think you just wanted to pile-on in an argument, but didn't actually take the time to figure out that this wasn't an argument at all, but a discussion about school interpreters from a whole range of people who interact with them (or are them), which is turning into a very informative whole as these pieces are coming together.

I refer you to Forum Rules -

9.) No bashing, flaming, harassing or being rude to other members. Period.

10.) No enticing or provoking other members to cause them to get into trouble.

 

[jillio]

I feel it is important to make a point regarding interpreting here. Effective interpreting requires an individual to utilize split brain attention to two sets of equally demanding and important information simultaneously. There is a reason that most people who know sign, even those who are fluent, cannot pass a certification examination. There is a reason that the number of interpreters compared to the number of people who know ASL or one of the MCEs is so low. It is more than a matter of knowing 2 languages. It involves specialized cognitive skills.

Think how many hearing people, or even deaf who learned English first, complain about the inability to automatically parse into ASL syntax. It requires a conscious shift from one language to the other. An interpreter remains in both English modality and ASL modality AT THE SAME TIME. They do not have the luxury of taking the time to make that shift after each segment of spoken information and each translation into ASL. Because of time lapse, they are also producing ASL translation of one segment while listening to another segment. People seem to think that all interpreting requires is a knowledge of the language. A terp also needs to know their client and to adjust interpreting based on that client's needs and cultural considerations. People seem to think that all that is needed to terp is knowledge of the language. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Everything is twisted.