Medical Researchers--How Reliable Are They?

Theseus

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Look at the three links and decide for yourselves:

#1) "articles in medical journals are scientifically sound" - Google Search

Dr. Richard Smith, the renowned former editor of the well-established British Medical Journal (BMJ), published an editorial in 1991-1992 that revealed disturbing statistics regarding our researchers/scientists. The link goes to several other medical links which cite his quote in which he revealed only 1% of articles in medical journals are scientifically sound. Smith revealed that "85% of medical treatments have no scientific basis or studies to support them, and that many medical treatments used in England and America have never been scientifically assessed at all, and that only 1% of the articles in medical journals are scientifically sound."

Extracted from elsewhere:

In 1992, the British Medical Journal published an editorial in which it was admitted that 85% of medical treatments have no scientific basis or studies to support them, and that many medical treatments used in England and America have never been scientifically assessed at all, and that only 1% of the articles in medical journals are scientifically sound. In the USA the Congress's Office of Technology Assessment concluded that over 75% of sickness care has never been proven safe or effective in clinical trials. Various studies have shown that 30-50% of surgical operations done in the USA annually are unnecessary. The bulk of laboratory medical tests performed are unneeded diagnostic tests to protect the doctor and hospital from litigations; many diagnostic tests expose the patient to risks, such as from X-rays, mammograms, infections, etc. Each year 1.5 million Americans are hospitalized from harmful reactions to medically prescribed drugs, and about 150,000 of them die annually from this. Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of preventable deaths; medical injuries result in annual costs of over $60 billion. Fewer than one-third of the physicians in the USA cited by medical oversight boards or the federal government for criminal conviction, substandard care, misprescribing drugs, or involved in alcohol or drug self-abuse are given any kind of disciplinary action that stops them even temporarily from further harming their patients. A few more bits of information. In the USA there are annually 61,000 cases of drug-induced Parkinson's Syndrome, 32,000 hip fractures caused by prescription drug-induced falls, 163,000 cases of drug-induced memory loss or impaired thinking, at least 200,000 cases of prescription drugs inducing dizziness or fainting, and the cost of such drugs rose fifteen times as fast as the CPI-U inflation index in 1993, e.g.

#2) Moving beyond journals: the future arrives with a crash

1999 article by Richard Smith. Once again -- the deadly statistics on research.

#3) http://www.vernoncoleman.com/drhazar.htm

Scientists like statistics, but these statistics are not what scientists want to hear. They pertain to major universities and studies across the world, bridging the time gap for hundreds of years. i.e. "Any improvement in life expectancy which has occurred in the last hundred years is not related to developments in the medical profession or to the growth of the international drug industry; but the increase in iatrogenesis [diseases caused by treatment] is related to both these factors." Look at the people's ages carefully at this website.


Few people know of this ongoing trend, but much of our conventional doctors' prescribed treatments (including surgery) are nothing more than unsafe, erroneous and/or unsufficiently tested practices. That falls within the definition of quackery.

Please, stay out of trouble folks. Choose a less dangerous religion than "modern medicine is scientific." It is barely even scientific, as the former chief editor of the BMJ revealed.

It's wonderful we have doctors, but there is a considerable amount of scientific dishonesty out there, even at the elite research levels--so use this knowledge to protect yourself.
 
FUD. Man, stop spreading it. Your "sources" are holistic medicine sites, anti-evolution religious websites, and conspiracy theory rings. Real neutral writers there, I tell ya. No agenda at all, no sirree.
 
Where do you find this stuff? Obviously not from any credible sources.
 
FUD. Man, stop spreading it. Your "sources" are holistic medicine sites, anti-evolution religious websites, and conspiracy theory rings. Real neutral writers there, I tell ya. No agenda at all, no sirree.

Four untruths! (By the way--why insist on using labels, especially if the British Medical Journal, which is well-respected by scientists worldwide, reports such a thing?) If even a drop of one statement you say is untrue, then that makes it an untruth. There is no need for an "conspiracy theory" correlation for this to be true. You are the one making up theories right now.

Irreconcilable facts are given, that expose people like you who defend fraudent ideas, under the guise of conventional medicine. You claim others like yourself to be neutral--but I'll let the readers decide whether to believe you or Dr. Richard Smith, former chief editor of the British Medical Journal.

He is recognized and respected by scientists worldwide. You get letters like this from the British Dental Journal which say, "As recently as 10th July 2004, the British Medical Journal devoted its editorial to 'Editorial Independence' and the former highly respected Editor of the BMJ, Richard Smith, expressed his hopes and aspirations for his successor in securing maximal editorial independence under the BMA's new arrangements for the BMJ." BDJ | Editorial control

This link: "Dr. Richard Smith" BMJ editor - Google Search

returns 15,200 returns on a Google search for ["Dr. Richard Smith" BMJ editor]

No agenda at all, no sirree.

It isn't me, but Dr. Richard Smith you are accusing. You protest only because you will not even "listen." If anyone--and I mean ANYONE--said such a thing, you would disclaim it automatically by hiding behind layers like "holistic medicine sites", "religious anti-evolution sites", "conspiracy theory rings", and "neutral writers". You claim yourself to be neutral?

There is no such thing as complete neutrality. In every research study done, there is always a little bias involved--even in the 'gold standard' double-blind experiments. This is because scientists are still human.

Then there's the "telephone game" concept where researchers distort information exchanged from one to another.

Then there's the unprofessional and uncooperative attitude of your so-called "scientists" behind-the-scenes that most people aren't aware of.

It is your word against Dr. Richard Smith's <-- a man well-respected by scientists worldwide
 
Where do you find this stuff? Obviously not from any credible sources.

We tend to interpret data as we want to interpret data. You claim the British Medical Journal is not credible because of your beliefs.
 
Did you see this:

"In the USA the Congress's Office of Technology Assessment concluded that over 75% of sickness care has never been proven safe or effective in clinical trials."

Congress concluded this.
 
We tend to interpret data as we want to interpret data. You claim the British Medical Journal is not credible because of your beliefs.

And what beliefs might those be my dear Mr. Spock?

And it is not the British medical journal that is suspect, it is the editor. He is a journalist, not a researcher, not a scientist, and not a physician.
 
Did you see this:

"In the USA the Congress's Office of Technology Assessment concluded that over 75% of sickness care has never been proven safe or effective in clinical trials."

Congress concluded this.

Congress makes a lot of conclusions that have no basis in reality. I wouldn't use that source to increase personal validity if I were you.
 
Conspiracy, Bias, or Just Plain Stupidity? About Natural Health Research Today: May 2006

Smith is not alone in this opinion, "Journals have devolved into information laundering operations for the pharmaceutical industry", wrote Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet, in March 2004. In addition, Marcia Angell, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, lambasted the drug industry for becoming "primarily a marketing machine" and co-opting "every institution that might stand in its way." These opinions are not the rants of someone in the alternative medicine community; they represent people within the very inner circle of conventional medicine.

He represents scientists who report to him.

jillio said:
And what beliefs might those be my dear Mr. Spock?

The belief that "modern medicine is scientific". It is not.

Even great scientists have tesified about how our researchers are being unscientific. Richard Feynman, who assisted in the development of the atomic bomb, expanded the understanding of quantum electrodynamics, translated Mayan hieroglyphics, and cut to the heart of the Challenger disaster once said, "The experts who are leading you may be wrong....I think we live in an unscientific age in which almost all the buffeting of communications and television-words, books, and so on-are unscientific. As a result, there is a considerable amount of intellectual tyranny in the name of science." What Is Science?

Would you believe Richard Feynman, who himself was one of the most accomplished scientists ever, who knew what was going on at the top levels of research?

There is enough evidence from scientists themselves that will turn your fantasy world upside-down.

When beliefs go unchallenged, they can be harmful. At one time I was just like you, believing that our researchers knew what they were doing. But since then, noticing how many people were having increased health problems despite what seemed like better medicine and our researchers not being immune from mass distortion of information, I investigated into this.

Have you investigated into this? If a top scientist (Feynman) complains, there may be something to it.

Want more info on Richard Smith's credibility: Public Library of Science: Richard Smith Join PLoS Board of Directors

I doubt you'll be convinced, jillio. Take courses in cultural anthropology like I did. Learn what words like ethnocentricity mean. Learn to step out of the "paradigm shift illusion" box and perceive the world from all angles. Image:Duck-Rabbit illusion.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Conspiracy, Bias, or Just Plain Stupidity? About Natural Health Research Today: May 2006



He represents scientists who report to him.



The belief that "modern medicine is scientific". It is not.

Even great scientists have tesified about how our researchers are being unscientific. Richard Feynman, who assisted in the development of the atomic bomb, expanded the understanding of quantum electrodynamics, translated Mayan hieroglyphics, and cut to the heart of the Challenger disaster once said, "The experts who are leading you may be wrong....I think we live in an unscientific age in which almost all the buffeting of communications and television-words, books, and so on-are unscientific. As a result, there is a considerable amount of intellectual tyranny in the name of science." What Is Science?

Would you believe Richard Feynman, who himself was one of the most accomplished scientists ever, who knew what was going on at the top levels of research?

There is enough evidence from scientists themselves that will turn your fantasy world upside-down.

When beliefs go unchallenged, they can be harmful. At one time I was just like you, believing that our researchers knew what they were doing. But since then, noticing how many people were having increased health problems despite what seemed like better medicine and our researchers not being immune from mass distortion of information, I investigated into this.

Have you investigated into this? If a top scientist (Feynman) complains, there may be something to it.

Want more info on Richard Smith's credibility: Public Library of Science: Richard Smith Join PLoS Board of Directors

I doubt you'll be convinced, jillio. Take courses in cultural anthropology like I did. Learn what words like ethnocentricity mean. Learn to step out of the "paradigm shift illusion" box and perceive the world from all angles. Image:Duck-Rabbit illusion.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, please! I have a complete grasp of the concept of ethnocentricy--have had several course in cultural anthropolgy for your information. Receic=ved A in all of them, thank you. Both at the undergraduate and the graduate level.

Perhaps you need to read a little more carefully. Smith did not make the statement that research wa unscientific, but that the buffeted effect of communication--t.v. books, and language-- is unscientific. Further, if you are so knowledgeable about research, you would know that noe all research is conducted using the scientific method. Anhtropological research among the type that more aoften conducts research of a qualitative nature.

Should you wish to engage in an intelligent discussion of facts, I will be more than happy to debate with you. However if you choose to attempt to be insulting and intimidating, and in the process revealing gaps in your own knowledge and education, you can go back to that crystal ball you seem to have in your pocket that reveals the thoughts of others and stuff it up your -------!:rl:
 
Oh, please! I have a complete grasp of the concept of ethnocentricy--have had several course in cultural anthropolgy for your information. Receic=ved A in all of them, thank you. Both at the undergraduate and the graduate level.

Perhaps you need to read a little more carefully. Smith did not make the statement that research wa unscientific, but that the buffeted effect of communication--t.v. books, and language-- is unscientific. Further, if you are so knowledgeable about research, you would know that noe all research is conducted using the scientific method. Anhtropological research among the type that more aoften conducts research of a qualitative nature.

Should you wish to engage in an intelligent discussion of facts, I will be more than happy to debate with you. However if you choose to attempt to be insulting and intimidating, and in the process revealing gaps in your own knowledge and education, you can go back to that crystal ball you seem to have in your pocket that reveals the thoughts of others and stuff it up your -------!:rl:

jillio, you are amazing. Smith did not say that. Richard Feynman and Richard Smith are two different people. Read what I said again.

Do you realize what has just happened? Richard Feynman, one of the greatest scientists ever - yes, the scientific method existed even during the atomic bomb era - has just been backed up by Richard Smith, a central figure of the scientific journalism world.

You should read the article by Richard Feynman on What Is Science?

When you read it, it becomes clear that he's referring to all scientists. He tells all scientists what SCIENCE REALLY IS.

I have watched discussions between very academic researchers when they have two very different stances and discuss a research paper even on things assumed to be "true" by our doctors. One researcher finds something and then counters the other researcher--but the other researcher keeps pointing out "You misread this. also, what about that?" This is a neverending - and I mean, NEVERENDING cycle... they are much better at language than either of us. They are real scientists--but semantics changes everything.

Academic researcher to another academic researcher: "You misread this..." "You misread this..." "You misread this..."

Even a peer review is influenced by semantics.

Think not?

Also, consider this:

"Unfortunately, while such a check and balance system would be useful, the number of findings from one scientist checked by others is vanishingly small. In reality, most scientists are simply too busy and research funds too limited for this type of review.

The result of the lack of oversight has recently put science itself under suspicion. With the pressures of academic tenure, personal competition and funding, it is not surprising that instances of outright scientific fraud do occur. However, even without fraud, the enormous amount of original scientific research published, and the pressure to produce new information rather than reproduce others' work dramatically increases the chance that errors will go unnoticed."

SCIENCE HOBBYIST: Misconceptions Page

Could this even possibly be true, jillio?

I am afraid the evidence is not on your side.
 
jillio, you are amazing. Smith did not say that. Richard Feynman and Richard Smith are two different people. Read what I said again.

Do you realize what has just happened? Richard Feynman, one of the greatest scientists ever - yes, the scientific method existed even during the atomic bomb era - has just been backed up by Richard Smith, a central figure of the scientific journalism world.

You should read the article by Richard Feynman on What Is Science?

When you read it, it becomes clear that he's referring to all scientists. He tells all scientists what SCIENCE REALLY IS.

I have watched discussions between very academic researchers when they have two very different stances and discuss a research paper even on things assumed to be "true" by our doctors. One researcher finds something and then counters the other researcher--but the other researcher keeps pointing out "You misread this. also, what about that?" This is a neverending - and I mean, NEVERENDING cycle... they are much better at language than either of us. They are real scientists--but semantics changes everything.

Academic researcher to another academic researcher: "You misread this..." "You misread this..." "You misread this..."

Even a peer review is influenced by semantics.

Think not?

Also, consider this:

"Unfortunately, while such a check and balance system would be useful, the number of findings from one scientist checked by others is vanishingly small. In reality, most scientists are simply too busy and research funds too limited for this type of review.

The result of the lack of oversight has recently put science itself under suspicion. With the pressures of academic tenure, personal competition and funding, it is not surprising that instances of outright scientific fraud do occur. However, even without fraud, the enormous amount of original scientific research published, and the pressure to produce new information rather than reproduce others' work dramatically increases the chance that errors will go unnoticed."

SCIENCE HOBBYIST: Misconceptions Page

Could this even possibly be true, jillio?

I am afraid the evidence is not on your side.

Academic research is rarely scientific. Most academic research is of the qualitative nature, not quantitative. In addition, research done to determine effectiveness of treatment options is done using the experimental method. Prior to that however, much qualitative research is done to determine the design of the quantitative research. There are quasi-experimental designs that do not fall intothe experimental category, and therefore are not true scientific experiments. Use of statistics to determine results of collected data has much to do with the validity and reliability of the experiment in question. Only certain statistical methods are applicable to certain research designs.

You keep talking about the validity of this research, yet you have failed to provide me with a single study that was deemed not to be reliable and valid. Your criticisms are of a very general nature. Give me specifics on published studies that have been deemed unreliable.
 
A page came up saying "Page not found" when I tried to post my message but I can post/edit short messages like this one. I will try again later.
 
"Medical Researchers--How Reliable Are They" should've been "Medical Researchers--How Reliable and Trustworthy Are They?"

Extracted from the .doc file:

Scientists often base their own conclusions on what "they" think/feel is correct, including those who decide what is legitimate and what isn't. Even after placebo and random controls have been used, scientists still pass the information on to the media even when the correlations do not imply causation and are unscientifically sound -- which then gets distributed to the general population. What follows is a massive propaganda in the name of science.

According to one of my links from earlier, "It is now well known that severe problems often do not appear either until at least 50,000 patients have taken a drug or until patients have used a drug for many months or even years. Because of this a huge death toll can build up over the years. Drug control authorities admit that when a new drug is launched no one really knows what will happen or what side effects will be identified.

Doctors and drug companies are, it seems, using the public in a constant, ongoing, mass testing programme. And the frightening truth is that far more people are killed as a result of prescription drugs than are killed as a result of using illegal drugs such as heroin or cocaine."

Medical researchers are using all of us as their guinea pigs "post-research." Should we trust the medical researchers?

This translates into: the researchers are hiding things from you. They are influenced by things like political and economical forces. [...]

Yes or no? Agree or disagree?
 
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