Maybe it's a taboo topic

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gotasl

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When I mention I wonder why many deaf people are struggling with written English in the public college classroom, it seems to me my hearing and deaf English professors (many hearing and deaf people won't admit and I feel like they don't want to talk about it) won't admit and I feel like they don't want to talk about it. I wonder if it's a taboo topic among them. When I went to private college in Indiana, I bring up the same topic that bothers me to the signed professor for deaf students. He admitted because American schools aren't doing good jobs on teaching written English to students. He cited one example about a prestigous private university requires all freshmen to take remedial English courses. He further explains if you follow written English rules, you'll be fine. He told me you may be struggle if you don't follow the rules.
 
Most of the Deaf and HoH people I know are extremely well written. I'm not sure where you get this statistic or if it's true even. However, I can understand some would do worse if they did not have proper access to the things they needed such as a terp or whatever tools they may need to thrive.

I'll throw out the second possibility being English is a terribly difficult language. Learning English myself being based off a Romanian speaking home and family, I'll tell you that English down right makes no sense half the time. Lets see, you have homographs which are things like lead (to go in front of)/lead (a metal) wind (to follow a course that is not straight)/wind (a gust of air) bass (low, deep sound)/bass (a type of fish) Same spelling, different sounds and meanings. Then you have homophones like to/two/too there/their/they're pray/prey which sound the same but are spelled differently and mean different things and then you can have tricky ones that fall in between depending on who you ask!!! No wonder why people struggle! Those are just the beginning it gets worse from there! I will tell you, that does not exist in most other languages. I won't say all because I am not sure, but definitely not in most. I found this online one day which also explains confusion and difficulty.

funny-english-language-rhyme-poetry.jpg


I could go on, but English is definitely not an easy topic for most. I studied my butt off to become functional at it.... However, most do not have that kind of time.

Just throwing it out there. :dunno2:
 
Also, English is a language acquired by babies through hearing because it is not a visual language. For deaf children, acquiring ASL is natural but acquiring English is not. Hearing kids hear English in their environment while deaf children can only see English in the printed form and as a result, they don't get full access to it unless they read hours a day.
 
Its an asburd idea to expect Deaf kids to be at the sane level of command and comprehension in english a langauage they do not hear nor speak with hearie kids who can hesr and speak english as a first language.
By way of a thought experement
how well wojkd hearie kids do if the roles were reversed. They r expected to be at the same level and fluency with Deaf kids in asl. But the hesrie kids r blind and csnnt see it. Changes things doesnt it?
 
Mewtilation said:
Most of the Deaf and HoH people I know are extremely well written. I'm not sure where you get this statistic or if it's true even. However, I can understand some would do worse if they did not have proper access to the things they needed such as a terp or whatever tools they may need to thrive.

I'll throw out the second possibility being English is a terribly difficult language. Learning English myself being based off a Romanian speaking home and family, I'll tell you that English down right makes no sense half the time. Lets see, you have homographs which are things like lead (to go in front of)/lead (a metal) wind (to follow a course that is not straight)/wind (a gust of air) bass (low, deep sound)/bass (a type of fish) Same spelling, different sounds and meanings. Then you have homophones like to/two/too there/their/they're pray/prey which sound the same but are spelled differently and mean different things and then you can have tricky ones that fall in between depending on who you ask!!! No wonder why people struggle! Those are just the beginning it gets worse from there! I will tell you, that does not exist in most other languages. I won't say all because I am not sure, but definitely not in most. I found this online one day which also explains confusion and difficulty.

funny-english-language-rhyme-poetry.jpg


I could go on, but English is definitely not an easy topic for most. I studied my butt off to become functional at it.... However, most do not have that kind of time.

Just throwing it out there. :dunno2:
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What about deer meaning one or more 'deer' but if there more one cat you say two cats. I keep wanting to say deers when I see one than one deer.

My automatic spellcheck drive me nuts sometime. I type 'you' and it was change to 'your'
 
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It varies really...

I know of deaf/HOH people who went to deaf school and have very very good command of the English language in writing and reading. By the same stroke I know of a few deaf/HOH people from the same type school to have poor writing/reading schools.

Replace deaf school with mainstream or 'hearing' school if you will, and you have the same two sets. I have very good writing/reading skills (or so I've been told and from test scores...hmm) while a few of my hard of hearing friends whose loss is actually less than mine don't have very good skills and struggles (ironically though- one is a math wiz and I'm jealous- math scares me lol).

It's just a mix of family involvement, how good the school itself is education wise and how the kid learns. I'm actually amazed at how well I've done considering my degree of loss AND my vision issues... I chalk some of it up to being a rabid reader when I was younger- so much so I used to get into trouble in school reading during class time lol.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
What about deer meaning one or more 'deer' but if there more one cat your say two cats. I keep wanting to say deers when I see one than one deer.
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See! That's what I'm saying though, I could go on for DAYS on how messed up English is! :laugh2: I do like to say deers though, and sheeps. I know it's incorrect but it sounds so much more fun to say deers and sheeps! :D
 
One of my Deaf professors brought up a possible reason: He said that many people trying to teach English to Deaf children tend to teach it in a way that makes sense for HEARING people, instead of changing their style to suit Deaf learners. He also said that some people affected by a severe language delay (as many deaf children are) have more trouble picking up the nuances of language later.
 
indeed how true. in the end its rooted in a failure of ideology. oralism is a failure. and it will take some generations to overcome over a hundred years of that institutional nonsense.
literacy plms affect hearies too. we will never overcome completely literacy plms for every single person deaf or otherwise. sometimes the plms are physiological besides institutional ones. but it hasn't been a taboo topic. we have been hard fighting about this since the days of gallaudet...
and even before

there was a huge ideological paradigm shift by the time of the Milan conference. after which i believe it was the london times that declared Deafness was abolished!! in bold no less

...
anyway
 
Mew makes an excellent point. Learning English as a second language is a challenge simply because of all the rules can make it even harder to be "delayed."

When you pick up one language so naturally, it can take time to learn the second one and so forth. Especially if people don't take the time to explain it in a view you understand.

What irritates me is those who have English as their native language (written or oral), want everyone else to be able to be as great in English as native speakers yet they don't even make the effort to use decent grammar.

Now my perspective on this is from growing up hearing and being bilingual. I dislike my memories of trying to learn something in English and your parents not really helping you understand that "kaa-san" won't pick you up until three when it was time to go home.

Only reason I ever got fluent as I am in English was taking the effort to learn it so I could have friends and be better than my parents at it. Part of my problem was teachers put more effort on Spanish speakers to help them than me...I mean really, how many elementary teachers put forth that effort to help the one child who knows a "rare" language in the classroom?

I bet part of the reason for the gaps between ASL and written English is people not taking more time to explain it. Then again, my knowledge of deaf education extends about as much as I read on this forum...so maybe my points aren't really helpful.
 
I think (and this is just my own opinion) that a lot of it has to do with what was said before- the rules are so intricate in English that it is extremely difficult to explain- even native English speakers don't know them all or could explain them all; they either know them through acquiring the language from infancy and just use them naturally, or they ignore them. When you couple that with not being able to hear the spoken language in use, to be exposed to it in more ways than just reading, it makes it next to impossible to learn. I find it incredible and admirable how many people can learn English as well as they have strictly by reading- I could never do it. Kudos to you all!
 
whatdidyousay! said:
What about deer meaning one or more 'deer' but if there more one cat your say two cats. I keep wanting to say deers when I see one than one deer.
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Or mouse and mice, house and hice, goose and geese, moose and meese, a gaggle of geese, a peck of crows, oh how the English language just doesn't flow, you have one deer or many deer, but more than one crow are many crows.

And yeah more than one house are called houses, so why can't more than one mouse simply be called mouses?
 
Mewtilation said:
See! That's what I'm saying though, I could go on for DAYS on how messed up English is! :laugh2: I do like to say deers though, and sheeps. I know it's incorrect but it sounds so much more fun to say deers and sheeps! :D
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I was in my daughter's car and her family and I where driving home from Maine and we saw 2 deer, and I told my granddaughter "look there are some deers!" I was feeling good that I did not forget to use 's' while talking to my granddaughter then I remembered you don't use a 's' if there are more than one deer. OH dear what a mess!
 
Steinhauer said:
Or mouse and mice, house and hice, goose and geese, moose and meese, a gaggle of geese, a peck of crows, oh how the English language just doesn't flow, you have one deer or many deer, but more than one crow are many crows.

And yeah more than one house are called houses, so why can't more than one mouse simply be called mouses?
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Deer , dear , bread ,bred, their, there ad, add are words that are always being used the wrong way . I pity anyone trying to learn English as their second language . It's just too confusing.
 
Our right to learn the difference between right and left can be confusing, right?

The leader was asked to lead him to the lead pipe. So he leaded (?) him, led him to the leaded fuel instead.
 
I've taught many people ASL. I had to tell them that "right " has more than 1 sign.

Trying telling someone that they are right to make a right turn. For those learning ASL, it can be confusing. Try doing that with English.
 
Steinhauer said:
Our right to learn the difference between right and left can be confusing, right?

The leader was asked to lead him to the lead pipe. So he leaded (?) him, led him to the leaded fuel instead.
Click to expand...

I was once walking with my younger sister in the winter and some boys started to thrown snowballs at us and I told my sister to duck and she said
"quack quack!" You know what happen next. Yes , is very confusing and that can be painful lesson to learn. I should ask my sister if she remember this.


Dear look at the deer there are 2 babies deer with their mother.
 
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