Laurent, South Dakota: Deaf Town

[marvmiller]

I was alerted to this site recently, and I have read all replies to this topic thread. I thought this was a very good discussion. I wasn't sure if I should jump in and give some answers or at least explain our perspective on why we are building Laurent. I'll jump in anyway!

[Quick note: Yes, I am deaf. My wife is deaf and I have 4 deaf children. I have deaf parents and my mother's parents are deaf. My partner is also my mother-in-law and she's hearing and signs well enough to be understood. ]

Our most frequently asked questions are: Why on earth did we choose South Dakota?! Why are we isolating ourselves from rest of the world?

I'll address isolation issue first.

We have a big problem in America (and worldwide). We are isolated today, right this minute. We are undereducated. We are under employed.

Statistic #1: Estimated 25% of world population receives no education. World Federation of the Deaf estimates 80% of the world deaf/hh kids receive no education.

Statisitc #2: Out of 500,000 public elected officials (city, county, region, state and federal) in this Country, we have ZERO known deaf/hh signer holding an elected public office. If we are to "guess" that there's at least 250,000 deaf/hh signers living in this country, then you extrapolate that with American population (290M), you get a number of approximately 480 elected officials that should be deaf/hh signers. We have zero.

Statistic #3: Before enacting Americans with Disabilities Act, 65% of disabled people were unemployed. Today, 16 years later, 67% are still unemployed.

Statisitc #4: Deaf employees in federal gov't -- in lower pay scale (GS1-GS7), we are in line with other disabilities. However, when you go over GS8 to GS15, we drop to just "barely" above people with mental retardation. And there's only one known deaf person who ever made SES (Senior Executive Service) and that's Robert Davila, former Assistant Secretary to Office of Special Education and Rehabilitation Services (OSERS).

I can go on and on. Bottom line, we are isolated, undereducated and underemployed. Today. In "mainstream" America. Is it because as a group we're dumb? Mentally incapable? No.

Part of this can be explained largely as "quality of life" issues. Who wants to sit on a City Council with 6 other members for hours at a time, yet have all information "filtered" through one or two interpreters. Miss out on the side chats, backroom dealings and so on. Fun? Enjoyable? No! Smart deaf/hh signers just don't bother. They stay in areas where they know they will enjoy life to the fullest. Can we do it? Sure, but it won't be fun. So why do it?

Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness. This is important... pursuit of happiness. So I want to nip this in the bud -- if anyone says, "Boo hoo, life is hard. Just go and do it." True, yet there are limits to our endurance and patience.

We are building Laurent in McCook County, South Dakota to ensure maximum political influence and voice on every level -- city, county and state. Right population size of the county (5,900 people) and state (760,000) enables us to be at the table -- full time. Only few other states have lower or similar population profile: North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska. New Mexico is fairly low-populated state, but their water issues scares me. There does seem to be severe water shortages in areas and may get worse over the time.

Other factor in choosing South Dakota is the "deaf-friendliness". CSD is the world's largest non-profit organization run by the deaf and is fairly well known in South Dakota. We also have Lt. Governor who is CODA. Yes, Rochester, NY; Fremont, CA; Metro Washington DC area; and a couple of others do meet the "deaf friendliness quotient". They just do not meet the critical criteria -- political participation on all levels. And, Fremont... yikes, who can live there but pay $100,000 for a closet space?

For years, people told Ben Soukup that he has to move to other state in order to recruit people to live/work for CSD. Well, CSD was able to recruit so many good people (with exception of those with deaf children... SDSD sucks. It's hard sell -- they have wonderful elementary school teachers, rated by Steve Nover and Eddy Laird as one the best in the country for bilingual education, yet the school has 50 students.) Many families moved to Sioux Falls. And guess what? Many of them will tell you they LOVE it there.

Now it is unfortunate that CSD is going through one of the most difficult times in their history and many people have been laid off. A quite few of them will probably leave Sioux Falls in search for jobs.

My point here is that... people WILL move anywhere when they see the benefits: better (and fully integrated) public school education for both deaf and hearing, jobs in new fields never before made available, new business opportunities (your own McDonald's franchise in fully sign language accessible environment for example), quality of homes, quality of community that's hard to measure -- being able to communicate with your local postmaster, store cashier or barber, and so on. Initially, we expect few families to move to Laurent and as time goes on, the domino effect -- especially after people SEE the town being built (and it will be beautiful... none of that cookie cutter crap you see in new developments today).

And, oh yes, speech will also be taught at Laurent public school district. The school will be fully bilingual: ASL and English. Best part about this is that I can hope my 4 kids will have many hearing and deaf friends that can walk and bike to the school. By having hearing peers who can sign fluently, my kids would be more comfortable -- hopefully -- in asking them how to speak certain words and have real motivation to learn speech. It can be a great tool, but there's no way that "speech" = intelligence.

And most importantly, we are building Laurent right next to I-90 in order to capture travelers and tourists as well as local business -- we are basically building a town for the WHOLE WORLD to see, come and play with us. Just like visiting France despite not being able to speak French. Why? Because you want to experience culture, arts, language, food, architecture and so on! So it will be with Laurent, South Dakota.

Join us. Support us. Visit us. Vacation with us. Best of all, donate online if you can.

Marvin Miller
The Laurent Institute

 

[CrazyMomma]

That's interesting.. but..

Why South Dakota??

Lot of snows! Freezing tempertatures! Icy roads! Brrrrr.. tooo cold for me...

I rather stay in South where the warm weather is...

 

[Interpretrator]

Why South Dakota??

The question was answered (boldface emphasis mine):

We are building Laurent in McCook County, South Dakota to ensure maximum political influence and voice on every level -- city, county and state. Right population size of the county (5,900 people) and state (760,000) enables us to be at the table -- full time....Other factor in choosing South Dakota is the "deaf-friendliness". CSD is the world's largest non-profit organization run by the deaf and is fairly well known in South Dakota. We also have Lt. Governor who is CODA. Yes, Rochester, NY; Fremont, CA; Metro Washington DC area; and a couple of others do meet the "deaf friendliness quotient". They just do not meet the critical criteria -- political participation on all levels. And, Fremont... yikes, who can live there but pay $100,000 for a closet space?

For some people the chance to have a real voice (so to speak...it could be a signed voice!) in government where they live is worth the winter wardrobe. But it probably wouldn't attract those who don't feel that way.

 

[marvmiller]

Andres Duany, father of New Urbanism and principal of Duany, Plater-Zyberk Town Planning firm, once said: "If climate was the main reason in selecting a location, everyone would live in Hawaii."

South Dakota's winters can be bitterly cold in Dec, Jan and Feb... but these "bitter" cold days do not last. Most of them last few days at a time, then the temperatures return to more reasonable levels.

There's only an average of 33 inches of snowfall annually in South Dakota. It's sunny in winter, and that can really fool us!

And we don't experience high humidity here, therefore the cold is more bearable than Minneapolis -- they have many lakes and higher humidity. I can immediately tell the difference between Sioux Falls and Minneapolis whenever I step off Northwest Airlines in winter. The difference is noticeable.

Spring, summer and fall is really pleasant here.

Based on the criteria we've set out in selecting a location for Laurent in order of priority:

1. Political voice/influence achievable with town of 2,500 people (city, county and state) With 2,500 people in McCook County, South Dakota, we would be the largest city in the county and be able to elect a signer to SD House of Representatives.
2. Economic friendliness (good place to start a business) and by interstate that preferablly is heavily traveled by vacationers/tourists
3. Affordable. Median new home price in Sioux Falls is $119,000.
4. Low taxes
5. Deaf friendliness
6. Far enough from big city (20 min drive minimum) in order to allow healthy local economy to grow in Laurent. If you owned a food store in Laurent, it would not be large because of population size. If Laurent was located next to Sioux Falls, your customers would come in and take one look and say, "Nah, not enough selection. I'm going to Wal-Mart 5 minutes away."
7. Close enough to big city for transportation, amenities, etc. 45 minutes.
7. Clean break mentality. If Laurent were to be located in Maryland, for example, many people would try "to have it both ways" by staying in their existing community and commute to/from Laurent, therefore seriously weakening the local economy. Not only that, Laurent's new public school district would not be looked on favorably by strong Maryland School for the Deaf, creating additional friction and possibly division.

Which locations do you think would fit the bill well? I am sure there are many, and I welcome ideas on them.

Marvin

 

[ismi]

So, here's my question (disclaimer: I understand that not all Deaf support the idea).

How does this further the idea of deaf/Deaf acceptance in the world? To me, it seems very reminiscent of some of the more militant black separatist groups of the 1960s and 1970s - the Back to Africa movement, for example. Isolationism simply doesn't work as a way of building tolerance in either direction.

By creating an all-Deaf town, aren't you sending the message that deafies can't or won't live alongside hearing people, and that hearing people shouldn't even bother with deafies? (Yes, yes, it's open to hearing people who sign. Doesn't change my point at all, since they will be a tiny minority, and the message then becomes "can't or won't live alongside hearing people unless they make the [not insignificant] effort to become fluent in a whole new language").

The alternate route that I would think would make more sense is the route taken by (for example) the disabled community. By pushing for mainstreaming in education, by pushing for political change where needed, by making ourselves a part of the mainstream community, we have made great progress (as has the deaf community, I think) in gaining tolerance, acceptance, and understanding. Have we done all that needs to be done? No. Is life still sometimes a struggle? Yes. But we're making progress, and we're not sacrificing our place in "the real world" in order to do so. Wouldn't that make more sense than building an isolated community?

All of that is rather vague and principle-driven. Here's a concrete example for you: let's say Laurent grows into a big town. I can certainly see various authority figures saying, "well, why do you need X accommodation? Why don't you just move to Laurent and stop bothering me?"

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Marv-

First of all, thank you and your family for your warm welcome when I visited your home well over a year ago. I apologize for the fact that my visit was all too brief.

South Dakota's winters can be bitterly cold in Dec, Jan and Feb... but these "bitter" cold days do not last. Most of them last few days at a time, then the temperatures return to more reasonable levels.

Weather is a valid concern, though. Someone quoted me that people actually leave their engines running when they go to the mall, restaurant, etc. during the winter!

6. Far enough from big city (20 min drive minimum) in order to allow healthy local economy to grow in Laurent. If you owned a food store in Laurent, it would not be large because of population size. If Laurent was located next to Sioux Falls, your customers would come in and take one look and say, "Nah, not enough selection. I'm going to Wal-Mart 5 minutes away."

This is funny. A couple of Sioux Falls people said that a five minute drive is 'too far away'. I didn't realize that the area has low traffic and places are intersepersed all over, leading a sensible person to conclude even a ten minute trip to be 'too far away'.

Which locations do you think would fit the bill well? I am sure there are many, and I welcome ideas on them.

Well, there's no perfect city, so this location in South Dakota is as sensible a choice as any. I wish you and your family all the best as you construct your vision of a Deaf town.

 

[marvmiller]

So, here's my question (disclaimer: I understand that not all Deaf support the idea).

How does this further the idea of deaf/Deaf acceptance in the world? To me, it seems very reminiscent of some of the more militant black separatist groups of the 1960s and 1970s - the Back to Africa movement, for example. Isolationism simply doesn't work as a way of building tolerance in either direction.

By creating an all-Deaf town, aren't you sending the message that deafies can't or won't live alongside hearing people, and that hearing people shouldn't even bother with deafies? (Yes, yes, it's open to hearing people who sign. Doesn't change my point at all, since they will be a tiny minority, and the message then becomes "can't or won't live alongside hearing people unless they make the [not insignificant] effort to become fluent in a whole new language").

Fact: 158 families on our reservation list represent 60% deaf adults, 40% hearing adults, 60% hearing children and 40% deaf children. Martha's Vineyard had only, in one town, 1 out of 25 persons that was deaf. Yet, their signing community flourished for over 350 years.

We have so many hearing signers excited out of their minds about living in Laurent - they tell us that it would be the first time they can live among signers in one place.

Laurent is not, have never been and will never be, a deaf town. Laurent will be world's first fully integrated town for signers.

The alternate route that I would think would make more sense is the route taken by (for example) the disabled community. By pushing for mainstreaming in education, by pushing for political change where needed, by making ourselves a part of the mainstream community, we have made great progress (as has the deaf community, I think) in gaining tolerance, acceptance, and understanding. Have we done all that needs to be done? No. Is life still sometimes a struggle? Yes. But we're making progress, and we're not sacrificing our place in "the real world" in order to do so. Wouldn't that make more sense than building an isolated community?

Been there. Done that. Statistics are not on your side. Unless you think all deaf people should be cochlear implanted and be taught to hear, speak and lipread. Deaf people are largely isolated today. And as a community, we do not even have the economic or political clout to push for the changes you speak of.

What separates deaf people from other disabled folks is communication. Can you imagine yourself waking up in Paris, France tomorrow and you do not know a single word of French? Do you think you can get high paying job in France? Will you be able to participate in politics, social events and so on? No. However, you can and will pick up enough skills in French over the time and you would become fluent enough to get better jobs, better access and so on.

As for deaf person, no matter how hard we try, we can never learn to hear. We're like a hearing American living in France with a weird learning disability that prevents him from learning second language. Nothing else is wrong with us.

Malcolm X once said, "If you want to achieve social equality, first achieve economic empowerment."

In the same vein, would you propose that we eradicate different languages, different cultures via inclusion -- making sure everyone spoke English? Suggest tht France, Germany, Japan, and others drop their languages in favor of one new language to be spoken as the world standard? That would take the fun out of living. Diversity will be gone.

Laurent will be built because it will be a place to celebrate American Sign Language, deaf and signing culture, display arts, crafts and beyond to the world for all to see, taste and learn from.

All of that is rather vague and principle-driven. Here's a concrete example for you: let's say Laurent grows into a big town. I can certainly see various authority figures saying, "well, why do you need X accommodation? Why don't you just move to Laurent and stop bothering me?"

Good point. Stupid and ignorant people will make those statements, unfortunately. This is happening even now. Does this mean I should give up on building Laurent? No. Not everyone will want to live in Laurent. Hence our goal for a town of 2,500.

Keep them coming.

Marvin

 

[ismi]

In the same vein, would you propose that we eradicate different languages, different cultures via inclusion -- making sure everyone spoke English? Suggest tht France, Germany, Japan, and others drop their languages in favor of one new language to be spoken as the world standard? That would take the fun out of living. Diversity will be gone.

No, I would not. Just as I don't insist that Spanish-speaking (or Polish, or Vietnamese, or Hmong, or whatever) immigrants to the US give up speaking Spanish in their own communities. But those groups (for the most part) do not isolate themselves - their children learn their native language as well as English. And note that I'm not advocating that everyone get a CI, or that oral education is the way to go.

I do understand your point about how English - at least spoken - is not accessible to many deaf people. But I disagree that this means that communication with the hearing world is impossible - my own experiences, and the experiences I've heard about in this forum, suggest otherwise. Either way, I'm not sure that isolationism is the solution. And I *definitely* disagree with your statement that you don't have the economic or political numbers to effect meaningful change - my example of the disabled (by which I mean non-deaf disabled, since that dichotomy is often made) shows that that's not the case.

True, many disabled do not have the communication barrier to deal with. But many do, and they too have made progress. Even among those without a language barrier, there are issues of respect and credibility that are being dealt with.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is this: which will have more effect in improving the ability of deaf people to have gainful employment and participate in society: creating a small town that is seen perhaps as something of a tourist attraction for hearing people, and perhaps as demonstrating segregationist attitudes? Or working to change attitudes and add to the knowledge of mainstream society?

Finally, you mention a 60/40 deaf/hearing split. What I would be interested to see is how many of those hearing adults are married to deaf adults. I think that situation would be significantly different than a hearing adult either single, or married to another hearing adult (in the case of a signer).

 

[marvmiller]

I do understand your point about how English - at least spoken - is not accessible to many deaf people. But I disagree that this means that communication with the hearing world is impossible - my own experiences, and the experiences I've heard about in this forum, suggest otherwise. Either way, I'm not sure that isolationism is the solution.

You are assuming that we are going to isolate ourselves. Despite our statements to the contrary, you just basically decided that building this town is isolationism. I think there's not much I can say or do to change your mind.

True, many disabled do not have the communication barrier to deal with. But many do, and they too have made progress. Even among those without a language barrier, there are issues of respect and credibility that are being dealt with.

Really? I think you're overgeneralizing here. And what's wrong with having multiple approaches to creating solutions? What's wrong with creating a cultural and linguistic heart in a shape and form that will create economic and political empowerment for many?

I suppose what I'm really wondering is this: which will have more effect in improving the ability of deaf people to have gainful employment and participate in society: creating a small town that is seen perhaps as something of a tourist attraction for hearing people, and perhaps as demonstrating segregationist attitudes? Or working to change attitudes and add to the knowledge of mainstream society?

Guess which one I am aiming for?

Marvin Miller
www.LaurentSD.com

 

[Rose Immortal]

Weather is a valid concern, though. Someone quoted me that people actually leave their engines running when they go to the mall, restaurant, etc. during the winter!

I heard the same thing from my parents from when they lived in Grand Forks. They said there are actually places where you can plug your car up to this thing that keeps your engine running without wasting a lot of gas. It's apparently so cold that if you do shut your engine off, you won't be able to start it again.

As for deaf person, no matter how hard we try, we can never learn to hear. We're like a hearing American living in France with a weird learning disability that prevents him from learning second language. Nothing else is wrong with us.

What about written English? That seems like a true necessity in this country--and also very achievable. One need not have speech or hearing in order to write well. And these days, with e-mail and instant messengers and other computer technologies, that skill can carry a person a lot further than maybe it could've in the past. I would think that getting that point across to hearing employers would be the MOST productive thing to do, as well as fixing educational systems wherever possible to make literacy the primary goal.

 

[marvmiller]

I heard the same thing from my parents from when they lived in Grand Forks. They said there are actually places where you can plug your car up to this thing that keeps your engine running without wasting a lot of gas. It's apparently so cold that if you do shut your engine off, you won't be able to start it again.

We don't have that in South Dakota. Hence the word, "South". I am not saying we're like Florida, and with hurricanes expected to hit with more frequency, maybe that's a good thing. :-(

What about written English? That seems like a true necessity in this country--and also very achievable. One need not have speech or hearing in order to write well. And these days, with e-mail and instant messengers and other computer technologies, that skill can carry a person a lot further than maybe it could've in the past. I would think that getting that point across to hearing employers would be the MOST productive thing to do, as well as fixing educational systems wherever possible to make literacy the primary goal.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and the way to do this is to have fully integrated local public school district that is locally governed by people living in Laurent school district thus ensuring that the school system reflects the values, priorities and goals of the community it serves. We are talking about a school where all kids will know sign language (and be fluent in that) in addition to written and even spoken english.

Marvin

 

[Rose Immortal]

We don't have that in South Dakota. Hence the word, "South". I am not saying we're like Florida, and with hurricanes expected to hit with more frequency, maybe that's a good thing. :-(

LOL, I guess I deserved that!

And I agree on Florida. No offense to Floridians or coastal residents, but you couldn't pay me enough to move to that area.

 

[web730]

To add something to ponder ...

What about the jobs available for them to keep up with their living there in Laurent - S.F.? Probably, there is enough jobs to find in the S.F. area. It would be about 25-30 miles to drive one way.

They still struggle to get past with the first phrase as of current point, I think. Struggling still to get it going. It could be a real setback. It shows one of the reasons why I thought that they may have made a geogrpahical mistake because they don't have enough future residents that could push its processings there more effectively (speaking of their funds and political influence) .. so what do you think here?

 

[marvmiller]

To add something to ponder ...

What about the jobs available for them to keep up with their living there in Laurent - S.F.? Probably, there is enough jobs to find in the S.F. area. It would be about 25-30 miles to drive one way.

They still struggle to get past with the first phrase as of current point, I think. Struggling still to get it going. It could be a real setback. It shows one of the reasons why I thought that they may have made a geogrpahical mistake because they don't have enough future residents that could push its processings there more effectively (speaking of their funds and political influence) .. so what do you think here?

Actually, that's not our issue at all. 158 families on reservation list with minimal marketing on our part on top of the fact there's no home, condo or apartment floor plans to show at this time -- yet they all signed up sight unseen... that's astounding achievement for any development project.

Our original funder has been working on a humanintarian aid package for us, and his inability to close the deal has nothing to do with the number of people on list or lack of deposits or rezoning issues.

Even when we are working on all angles and contacting local investors to hurry this project along, the investors have never at one point said, "Your list is not large enough."

As for jobs, this is why we will develop Laurent into a full blown self-supporting town (which means real job creation as well as helping 5 other small towns in McCook develop more fully). We are looking into high technology research and development as well as light manufacturing by partnering with State of South Dakota to do this. There are funds available through Small Business Innovation Research and SBA and several others.

This is on top of local businesses people will start (gas station, McDonald's, other franchises, book store with cafe, local restaurants, hotels, and so on). No, they won't all pop up at the same time overnight. It will take some time.

Marvin

 

[Passivist]

I don't share your confidence, but wish you well, Martha's Vineyard was a deaf/hearing community, it folded on the very basic first hurdle, someone built a road out.... I don't think it takes people's basic desire to move around, also, children of deaf may well choose not to stay, you could end up with aged deaf people needing a support system, and they tell me it gets darn cold in South Dakota too !

 

[backerman]

The deaf town sound interesting to me but I will have to wait and see how it's going. Not sure if they're going to build it. When they finish building the deaf town. I don't mind vising the deaf town and see if it is look good or not.

 

[Passivist]

It's a huge undertaking, so far perhaps 145 have expressed an interest, what balance of skills they have, or support they will need hasn't really been worked out has it ? So once 145 families move in another 500 would have to go there to make it work ? What is South Dakota like ? all plains ? frozen in the winter ? Ancilliary services have to be worked out, without them the 145 can't move in. Are they going to approach the state legislatures and ask for funding to set it up too ? The Pilgrim fathers had to do it the hard way !

 

[marvmiller]

It's a huge undertaking, so far perhaps 145 have expressed an interest, what balance of skills they have, or support they will need hasn't really been worked out has it ? So once 145 families move in another 500 would have to go there to make it work ? What is South Dakota like ? all plains ? frozen in the winter ? Ancilliary services have to be worked out, without them the 145 can't move in. Are they going to approach the state legislatures and ask for funding to set it up too ? The Pilgrim fathers had to do it the hard way !

Not to nitpick, but its 158 families on the list now. The list represents over 300 individuals.

You're right about ancillary services, and we will be working with different groups to make that happen as well. One nice thing is that our town can rely on city of Salem (1,300 pop.) 3.5 miles north or Canistota (pop 600) 10 miles away. Sioux Falls is a 40 mile drive away.

South Dakota is actually beautiful -- rolling hills, green plains and can be cold in winter, though. Only 33 inches of snowfall each year vs 75 in Michigan or Minneapolis. Very sunny. 235 sunny days a year with clear blue sky.

Marvin

 

[Nesmuth]

Marvin,

Are you plainning on excluding people because theyre not deaf enough, or theyre not part of deaf hood, or dont measure up to the so called white deaf yardstick?

Richard

 

[marvmiller]

Marvin,

Are you plainning on excluding people because theyre not deaf enough, or theyre not part of deaf hood, or dont measure up to the so called white deaf yardstick?

Richard

Nope.

There will be no requirements or restrictions on anyone buying a home in Laurent. Only businesses, service providers and local goverment officials will be required to communicate in sign language. This will be just like Americans with Disabilities Act requiring access on telephone or at employment. The requirement is to enable direct communication for all signers.

The residents will largely determine the levels of fluency required (we will set a minimum standards at the start, but the residents will ultimately take over on the decision making via elections, city council and so on.)

I try to encourage people to view in a new paradigm, instead of deaf vs hearing, we see the world as signers vs non-signers. You will find all kinds of people in both groups.

Marvin