is this slow?

dhn121

dhn121

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Yesterday I went to my son's ARD/IEP and was constantly told his speech progression has been "slow". The panel of about 7 (not including me) all agree that his progress isn't what the expected.

I wonder if there's anyone out there with kids that has moderate to severe (borderline profound) hearing loss who has not had access to speech before. If they remember how much words or how much speech he/she got after 6 months of either CI or hearing aids.

previously I asked the question about substituting phonics....
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/88447-substituting-what-he-hears.html

I know others have told me it takes 12 months for speech. If that's the case why is the school panel stressing me out and telling me my son is "slow" as if there's something else going on with him besides the hearing loss?

My son has about a 40 word vocabulary. His speech is not clear. He is putting 2 words together like "open please" or "mom, come". After 6 months I thought he was doing GREAT. But now they're making me wonder if I've set my expectation too low.
 
Every child is so very different and so many variables are in play for your son. It's hard to benchmark your child against other kids, whether with/without CIs or HAs, hearing kids, and after only 6 months, well, I'm surprised at the doom and gloom being expressed by your team. But perhaps they are just taking a conservative approach to ensure that you get the most resources possible placed at your disposal. My child's teacher explained that there are politics involved in developing IEPs, and it's especially tricky for a child who is doing great: too much sunshine and you might lose your placement or resources!

She's not exactly the model you are looking for (Li had no language at all her first year in the orphanage, she is prelingually, bilaterally, profoundly deaf), but maybe the measures used can help:

Speech and language evaluation developed in preparation for first IEP at almost 3YO, after being implanted in one ear for ~12 months, the other for ~1 month

First IEP progress report including goals at about 3 years 2 months (2 months into prek).

Looking back now, you might think that first year of progress -- from NO spoken language at the age of nearly 2 to what you see accomplished a year later at 3 -- was slow. But we were pleased with her progress and our team was very encouraging. And she's made leaps and bounds since, so slow at first is no indication of progress later. If you can get a benchmark examination of your son's speech and language ability (as we did with both spoken language and with ASL), you'll be able to clearly see progress against the only benchmark you want to use -- your own son.
 
I'm just like your son since I have a moderate-severe loss with a severe loss in the high frequencies and I had an old hearing aid *Oticon Gaia*
which I had trouble with alot (trouble with speech in noise)
but now, I'm getting so much better with the new pairs :) plus I'm back to the audio department April 14th.

if you don't suceed, try, try again
 
But perhaps they are just taking a conservative approach to ensure that you get the most resources possible placed at your disposal. My child's teacher explained that there are politics involved in developing IEPs, and it's especially tricky for a child who is doing great: too much sunshine and you might lose your placement or resources!
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Good point Grendel,
I didn't get aided until I was three, and I have a hoh loss (moderately severe) I would say, give it time. It is NOT like he has NO speech or is really severely delayed. He's got some spoken language. Hmmmm..... could you talk to someone who may have a lot of experiance with spoken language development in dhh kids?
 
deafdyke said:
Good point Grendel,
I didn't get aided until I was three, and I have a hoh loss (moderately severe) I would say, give it time. It is NOT like he has NO speech or is really severely delayed. He's got some spoken language. Hmmmm..... could you talk to someone who may have a lot of experiance with spoken language development in dhh kids?
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according to the ARD meeting he is "severely delayed" and is "slow" to catch up. they told me kids his age has a vocabulary of around 1200. My son has a little more than 3 dozen. I would love to talk to someone with a lot of experience with dhh kids. I'm going to see the AVT tomorrow. Maybe he can shed some light on this since he deals with dhh kids all day long.



GrendelQ said:
Every child is so very different and so many variables are in play for your son. It's hard to benchmark your child against other kids, whether with/without CIs or HAs, hearing kids, and after only 6 months, well, I'm surprised at the doom and gloom being expressed by your team. But perhaps they are just taking a conservative approach to ensure that you get the most resources possible placed at your disposal. My child's teacher explained that there are politics involved in developing IEPs, and it's especially tricky for a child who is doing great: too much sunshine and you might lose your placement or resources!

She's not exactly the model you are looking for (Li had no language at all her first year in the orphanage, she is prelingually, bilaterally, profoundly deaf), but maybe the measures used can help:

Speech and language evaluation developed in preparation for first IEP at almost 3YO, after being implanted in one ear for ~12 months, the other for ~1 month

First IEP progress report including goals at about 3 years 2 months (2 months into prek).

Looking back now, you might think that first year of progress -- from NO spoken language at the age of nearly 2 to what you see accomplished a year later at 3 -- was slow. But we were pleased with her progress and our team was very encouraging. And she's made leaps and bounds since, so slow at first is no indication of progress later. If you can get a benchmark examination of your son's speech and language ability (as we did with both spoken language and with ASL), you'll be able to clearly see progress against the only benchmark you want to use -- your own son.
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I don't think they were trying to make it look bad so that he can get more benefits.

Thanks for the links. It does help. After reading it I feel better and am confident that all he need is time. I'm convinced they're NUTS!! He's doubling his vocabulary each month (if I include words he understands but isn't speaking and the dozen or so signs he knows) how can that be "slow"?



BTW..Li is just adorable!!
 
I'm convinced they're NUTS!! He's doubling his vocabulary each month (if I include words he understands but isn't speaking and the dozen or so signs he knows) how can that be "slow"?
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Well if he's making progress with doubling his vocab...I'd be concerned but not super worried. Again, remember he's only had his aids for six months...It takes time for kids to catch up.
Is he in the TC or oral program? Could you have him do a split placement? Like one day in the TC preschool and then one day in the oral program?
 
Professional assessments - there are a few bad apples in the barrel just like anything else. Someone I know well came back from a preschool assessment of her daughter aghast because they said she was slow or learning disabled because she had said 'boat' instead of 'yacht' and she couldn't pinpoint a chicken (because she lived in the urban areas and had never see a live one before) and also because she didn't know how to use a pair of scissors (scissors were banned at home due to safety). Yet, they were assessing this very intelligent little 3 year old as a slow learner and having a learning disorder. If children's intelligence is assessed this way! So help us God. (btw, this same child is now quite a few years older and has proved them all very wrong - She tops her class at school).
 
Wirelessly posted

in six months he should have made about 9-12 months progress. So if he started at the level of a 6 month old (understanding only a few words, like his name) he should be at the level of an 15 to 18 month old, which would be following 2 step commands and have a hundred or so words.

he needs to be making MORE progress than time is passing.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

in six months he should have made about 9-12 months progress. So if he started at the level of a 6 month old (understanding only a few words, like his name) he should be at the level of an 15 to 18 month old, which would be following 2 step commands and have a hundred or so words.

he needs to be making MORE progress than time is passing.
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is there a study that you're getting this information from or is this from experience. I would love to read more about this if it's a study of some sort.

My son has been outside of the speech banana all this time I would guess? We're not sure when or how much...Not even sure how much he understood. I've always thought he heard and understood me. But the ECI rep that came out when he was 2 1/2 before we did a hearing test told us that he picks up on visual cues. For example you hand him something and say "throw this away" he sees the item and the direction you're pointing. So he does this. Not because he heard me but just from visual cues. As far as him responding to his name, she told us that he more likely then not, he feels us coming into the room and looks up not because he hears his name. He never said his name. So I guess that makes sense. He only said "go" and "ba" (grandmother in vietnamese) at the age of 3. I believe now he understands 2 step commands. If that's the case he understands more than he is saying. I don't know how many words he understands. I've started a list of commands that I've asked him to do without cues and he does it correctly. Do we count every word in the sentence if he does the command correctly? Not sure how that works.
Thanks
 
Wirelessly posted

dhn121 said:
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

in six months he should have made about 9-12 months progress. So if he started at the level of a 6 month old (understanding only a few words, like his name) he should be at the level of an 15 to 18 month old, which would be following 2 step commands and have a hundred or so words.

he needs to be making MORE progress than time is passing.
Click to expand...


is there a study that you're getting this information from or is this from experience. I would love to read more about this if it's a study of some sort.

My son has been outside of the speech banana all this time I would guess? We're not sure when or how much...Not even sure how much he understood. I've always thought he heard and understood me. But the ECI rep that came out when he was 2 1/2 before we did a hearing test told us that he picks up on visual cues. For example you hand him something and say "throw this away" he sees the item and the direction you're pointing. So he does this. Not because he heard me but just from visual cues. As far as him responding to his name, she told us that he more likely then not, he feels us coming into the room and looks up not because he hears his name. He never said his name. So I guess that makes sense. He only said "go" and "ba" (grandmother in vietnamese) at the age of 3. I believe now he understands 2 step commands. If that's the case he understands more than he is saying. I don't know how many words he understands. I've started a list of commands that I've asked him to do without cues and he does it correctly. Do we count every word in the sentence if he does the command correctly? Not sure how that works.
Thanks
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i have a study that shows that implanted kids can make up to 2 years progress in one calender year. What are you looking for? You have to make more progress than time passes so you can close the gap. The rest is just spoken language milestones from a regular development chart.
 
2 years of progress in 1 year? Sounds like a lot of less play time for the child to have fun with other neighborhood kids.
 
posts from hell said:
2 years of progress in 1 year? Sounds like a lot of less play time for the child to have fun with other neighborhood kids.
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Learning progress doesn't have to equal lack of play time; learning and play can be one and the same, depending upon your methods.

[edit: hang on a sec .... I just have to yell at Li for trying to leave the closet. We're playing "audiogram" again whether she likes it or not! ]
 
GrendelQ said:
Learning progress doesn't have to equal lack of play time; learning and play can be one and the same, depending upon your methods.
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:gpost:

I kept my son out of preschool because he was neurotypical and I felt like he should just go play. He also liked his current nanny. It worked out just fine. The kindergarten he's in is problems-based and hands-on. He does all kinds of "educational" stuff at home and doesn't realize it. Play is educational. If you need to tweak it a little, so what?

I donno. I'm pretty big on education. I can't imagine a life without my little "toolbox". I can't imagine not going to college or not being able to read or write. I think that it's 100% O.K. for a parent to want that "toolbox" as full as possible.
 
Learning progress doesn't have to equal lack of play time; learning and play can be one and the same, depending upon your methods.
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Ditto.
Kids can and do learn by just playing and picking up on things without being formally taught. There is even a education methodology called unschooling/ Free Schools that capitalizes on this in early childhood.
I do agree that there are parents who think that dhh kids need therapy, therapy and more therapy, or that if they're not in therapy for most of their waking hours, they won't develop spoken language.
Remember a lot of the CI kids of today who are functionally hoh, bascily just need hoh style spoken language intervention....not nessarily old school deaf spoken language intervention.
 
GrendelQ said:
Learning progress doesn't have to equal lack of play time; learning and play can be one and the same, depending upon your methods.

[edit: hang on a sec .... I just have to yell at Li for trying to leave the closet. We're playing "audiogram" again whether she likes it or not! ]
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:lol: I want to come play!
 
deafdyke said:
Ditto.

I do agree that there are parents who think that dhh kids need therapy, therapy and more therapy, or that if they're not in therapy for most of their waking hours, they won't develop spoken language.
.
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There are those type of parents in all disabilities groups.

My dad thinks that legs stretches will fix my hearing issues and vision issues :wtflol::crazy:
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



i have a study that shows that implanted kids can make up to 2 years progress in one calender year. What are you looking for? You have to make more progress than time passes so you can close the gap. The rest is just spoken language milestones from a regular development chart.
Click to expand...

Yes!! I would love to read the study. Thanks you!!

BTW...this week my added 10 words to his vocabulary without cue. So 50+ words in 6 months. catching up slowly but surely :) He said "what's that?"
 
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