Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[jillio]

:scratch: so.... in english.......

CI users are functioning significantly below their hearing peers academically and psycho-socially, when placed in an oral only environment. And these were the results at elementary age. The gap has been shown to widen as the kids get older.

 

[jillio]

So you believe thaat the majority of CI users use ASL?

Where exactly did I say that?

 

[Daredevel7]

Yea, I'm gonna give my brain a rest......

Simply put, I don't think ASL should be MANDATORY, just as oralism shouldn't be mandatory.

 

[chris' mom]

not sure if this is on topic or not. But I have question to ask. Am I wrong in keeping my child in his normal public school, with his HA and FM system along with Speech therapy and an interpeter? His teacher and I have currently talked and reliezed that he's better at learning signs and then picking up the verbal. We all use sign and we all use verbal. I am also signed up to take a Signing class in APril

 

[jillio]

not sure if this is on topic or not. But I have question to ask. Am I wrong in keeping my child in his normal public school, with his HA and FM system along with Speech therapy and an interpeter? His teacher and I have currently talked and reliezed that he's better at learning signs and then picking up the verbal. We all use sign and we all use verbal. I am also signed up to take a Signing class in APril

I wouldn't say you are wrong. The important thing is that you continue to use an interpreter so that he is able to get the information in the mode he most readily comprehends. Later on, social issues may become something you will need to consider, if he is the only deaf child in the classroom

 

[jillio]

The language of 7 children who had used a cochlear implant for 5 years was evaluated by means of the Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals-3, the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test-Revised, and the Expressive Vocabulary Subtest of the Test of Word Knowledge. All subjects demonstrated impaired skills relative to normal-hearing children on 1 or more subtests. Variability in performance accurred between subjects and within subjects across subtests. Strengths in semantic skills were evident compared to weaker syntactic and morphological abilities. The findings support the need for further evaluation of the rate and course of development of language subskills. Investigation of the influences of information processing, and learning styles and strategies, on children's outcomes is also warranted. These findings have implications for implementation of optimal habilitation and education programs for children with cochlear implants.

Young, G. & Killen, D. (2002). Receptive and expressive language skills of children with five years of experience using a cochlear implant. Annals of Otolarngology, Rhinology, & Laryngoglogy 111, 802-810.

 

[Bottesini]

The language of 7 children who had used a cochlear implant for 5 years was evaluated by means of the Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals-3, the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test-Revised, and the Expressive Vocabulary Subtest of the Test of Word Knowledge. All subjects demonstrated impaired skills relative to normal-hearing children on 1 or more subtests. Variability in performance accurred between subjects and within subjects across subtests. Strengths in semantic skills were evident compared to weaker syntactic and morphological abilities. The findings support the need for further evaluation of the rate and course of development of language subskills. Investigation of the influences of information processing, and learning styles and strategies, on children's outcomes is also warranted. These findings have implications for implementation of optimal habilitation and education programs for children with cochlear implants.

Young, G. & Killen, D. (2002). Receptive and expressive language skills of children with five years of experience using a cochlear implant. Annals of Otolarngology, Rhinology, & Laryngoglogy 111, 802-810.

Nobody here to argue with you. Lest you feel lonely, I will say I wonder if someone who is arguing for the all aural approach with a CI kid knows any older kids with CI.

I do know young adults who are friends of my children, and they absolutely are not like hearing people.

Jillio, just in case anybody thinks I am guilty of what all here were charged with.

 

[jillio]

Nobody here to argue with you. Lest you feel lonely, I will say I wonder if someone who is arguing for the all aural approach with a CI kid knows any older kids with CI.

I do know young adults who are friends of my children, and they absolutely are not like hearing people.

Jillio, just in case anybody thinks I am guilty of what all here were charged with.

OUCH! **jillio rubbing the back of her head.**

Actually, I'm not trying to provoke an argument...just substaniating my points.

 

[Bottesini]

OUCH! **jillio rubbing the back of her head.**

Actually, I'm not trying to provoke an argument...just substaniating my points.

I know. Just supporting you, in an argumentative style.:P

 

[naisho]

Botti for Jillio

(reason: eye for an eye!)

 

[Bottesini]

Botti for Jillio

:monkey:

 

[jillio]

Why, it makes me feel like Riverdancing!

 

[deafdyke]

All she does is play and listen. I provide constant quality auditory information that is both interesting, developmentally appropriate, but also appropriate for level of functioning auditorially. We don't do drills, tests, or "speech exercises" ever.

Excellent! However, just b/c she can do that, and just soaks up info it doesn't mean that it isn't hard for her.
It is exactly like how as a teen I attended an all girls camp that had a sub population of quebecoisis girls. (girls who spoke French) They could speak English quite well, but it was also really hard for them. I remember my last year there was a quebecois girl in my cabin, and when it was at the end of the day she'd kind of "melt down" and just start speaking French. Also my friends from Holoyoke who are PR are comfortable with English, but they would also kinda melt down into Spanish when they were tired.
Also, just b/c a kid can pick up oral abilty, it doesn't mean that they will be able to speak on a par with hearing people. Yes, the days when "oral" meant a five year old kid with the vocab of a one year old, are pretty much gone. (not to say that doesn't happen, as it proboly does) but kids still haven't been able to perform on a par with their hearing nondisabled peers.
Oral abilty is great.......but many of those with oral abilty are still severely delayed.

 

[deafdyke]

Oh and Chris' mom,
My best advice......I think that the majority of dhh or otherwise classicly disabled kids definitly can benifit from a mainstream educational placement, but they should also do a split placement for PK/preschool/early elementary school. Like a couple of days at the mainstream school, and then some at the deaf program or school for the deaf. Is there a Deaf School or program nearby? Maybe you could have your son evaluated there, and they could make reccomendations.

 

[jasin]

If they are deaf, no.

 

[Daredevel7]

I see why you have reached that conclusion, but your logic is faulty. The reason is more that PSE mimics an auditory syntax and does not make sense visually. The very reason that the MCEs have been an EPIC FAIL.

That would apply for those who are still learning language. But for those who have well developed written English skills...? Written English does not make sense visually at all either.

Also, I find it kind of amazing that you taught your son 1) Important information 2) How to lipread the important questions 3) How to say the important information all before kindergarten.

And you're a typical parent? With a sudden expertise in speech therapy?

 

[Mrs Bucket]

That would apply for those who are still learning language. But for those who have well developed written English skills...? Written English does not make sense visually at all either.

Also, I find it kind of amazing that you taught your son 1) Important information 2) How to lipread the important questions 3) How to say the important information all before kindergarten.

And you're a typical parent? With a sudden expertise in speech therapy?

I would call it effective parenting, no?

Any good parent would take the initiative to make sure their child has a full toolbox in communication.

I also find it interesting that you question jillio's parenting methods about her own child when you don't even master ASL yet and don't have a child as well.

Any parent would want their child to know how to spell and write their name before Kindergarten, know their phone number in any event they are lost [knocks on wood!] which I hope never happens to any child.

Any pertinent information helps a child and again I find it so interesting that a person questions the parent's approach using ASL when a parent who uses the spoken method would not be questioned only praised.

Double standards, anyone??

 

[Daredevel7]

I would call it effective parenting, no?

Any good parent would take the initiative to make sure their child has a full toolbox in communication.

I also find it interesting that you question jillio's parenting methods about her own child when you don't even master ASL yet and don't have a child as well.

Any parent would want their child to know how to spell and write their name before Kindergarten, know their phone number in any event they are lost [knocks on wood!] which I hope never happens to any child.

Any pertinent information helps a child and again I find it so interesting that a person questions the parent's approach using ASL when a parent who uses the spoken method would not be questioned only praised.

Double standards, anyone??

Ah! But I'm not questing her parenting. I am questioning her description of herself being a "typical parent". You said so yourself, she was doing "effective parenting". Would you say this is normal for a hearing parent of a deaf child?

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Ah! But I'm not questing her parenting. I am questioning her description of herself being a "typical parent". You said so yourself, she was doing "effective parenting". Would you say this is normal for a hearing parent of a deaf child?

You may not be questioning her parenting but to me, you are.

You question her description as a typical parent, you still question her parenting methods. It goes hand in hand.

She is doing effective parenting and what is wrong with that?

This is normal of hearing parent of a deaf child.

It is called loving the child and doing what is the best for the child.

This is called accommodating the child and the parent adjusting to the child.

This is not the parent insisting the child adjust itself to the parent.

 

[Daredevel7]

You may not be questioning her parenting but to me, you are.

You question her description as a typical parent, you still question her parenting methods. It goes hand in hand.

She is doing effective parenting and what is wrong with that?

This is normal of hearing parent of a deaf child.

It is called loving the child and doing what is the best for the child.

This is called accommodating the child and the parent adjusting to the child.

This is not the parent insisting the child adjust itself to the parent.

I can tell you with certainty that I am not questioning her parenting methods. In fact, I praise it. Too bad more parents aren't like her, otherwise we wouldn't be here arguing, correct? Hence my point is that parents don't always know what to do with the deaf child BY THEMSELVES. They usually confer with "the experts" and let them take care of it. Not to say that they don't care, they just don't have that innate ability to SUDDENLY know what to do for something they have no or little experience with.