"In-between"

[Oceanbreeze]

Sigh............Cdaigle, the overwhelming majority of hoh and even DEAF children already have tons of exposure to the hearing world. It's pretty much the default for HOH kids, that we get hearing aids/CIs and speech therapy and an automatic kneejerk placement into the Hearing World. Nobody is saying " do ASL only" or " be totally separatist"

You sure about that? I have YET to see you even suggest mainstreaming might work for a D/hh child. You're ALL about deaf school placements, which is fine for those kids who might benefit. However, there are those students WHO would do well in an oral only environment. I've seen such a child. Have you?

 

[deafdyke]

Your opinion has been clear for a long time. We disagree.

Txgoler, how much do you really honestly know about Deaf or specialized low incidence education? ALL I am saying is that compared to an inclusive setting where a kid would get maybe fifteen mintues of Sign, preferential seating, an FM device and speech therapy, the early childhood programming at a Deaf School or a dhh formal program is going to kick ass. There's no reason why a kid couldn't spend a few years getting a strong foundation of early childhood education, and then transfer to a hearing school.
BTW, need I mention that some kids in the early childhood programming may still be aquirring language? Heck, right here we have a member whose son is in kindergarten at FSDB and who is still learning Sign. There's a plethora of reasons why achievement levels may not look good on paper........

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Again, that is not what I have seen.

DD often spouts opinions from crap she reads off the internet + her own experience.

 

[TXgolfer]

Yes, but are you trained in Deaf Ed? I doubt it. That really wouldn't be the best situation. You don't know how to teach a deaf child do you?
I know the Deaf Schools don't always have the best reputation.....but then again test scores don't always reflect the achievement levels of the students....b/c again a heck of a lot of the students there are transfers from the mainstream. Also the score is for the elementary school as a whole. It doesn't say anything about the preschool/kindergarten/early childhood......Even at the Deaf or specialized schools where there are a lot of mentally handicapped/kids who really fell through the cracks in the mainstream, the early childhood programming tends to be really good.

Again, we disagree. Not sure why you continue to beat a dead horse here.

 

[NitroHonda]

DD often spouts opinions from crap she reads off the internet + her own experience.

What's wrong with that? She's obviously educated and her own experience means a great deal. I do the same thing... I read what others have to say and parallel it with my own experiences and form an independent opinion.

 

[deafdyke]

You sure about that? I have YET to see you even suggest mainstreaming might work for a D/hh child. You're ALL about deaf school placements, which is fine for those kids who might benefit. However, there are those students WHO would do well in an oral only environment. I've seen such a child. Have you?

Do you mean in this thread? I think inclusion (I do support dhh programs) is overrated for a lot of kids with low incidence disabilities. I'm not even talking about academics either.....Education is SO much MORE then sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher drone on and on about something. ....Many if not most dhh kids do not benefit from the incidental learning situation in an inclusive situation. Even the dhh kids who are high honor roll, very often do not benefit from incidental learning oppertunties in an inclusive setting at a mainstream school.
And is that child still young? Wait til they're a bit older.....and how do you know that that child isn't simply faking it very well, like so many of our members here?

 

[deafdyke]

DD often spouts opinions from crap she reads off the internet + her own experience.

As opposed to you who isn't even HOH?

 

[TXgolfer]

Txgoler, how much do you really honestly know about Deaf or specialized low incidence education? ALL I am saying is that compared to an inclusive setting where a kid would get maybe fifteen mintues of Sign, preferential seating, an FM device and speech therapy, the early childhood programming at a Deaf School or a dhh formal program is going to kick ass. There's no reason why a kid couldn't spend a few years getting a strong foundation of early childhood education, and then transfer to a hearing school.
BTW, need I mention that some kids in the early childhood programming may still be aquirring language? Heck, right here we have a member whose son is in kindergarten at FSDB and who is still learning Sign. There's a plethora of reasons why achievement levels may not look good on paper........

See the bold....that is a biased generalization. I am non-biased.....neutral. I believe each parent should research and chose the best option for their kid. I suggest doing research and exploring alternatives because basing decisions on bias is not in the best interest of the kid.....IMO.

 

[ecp]

As opposed to you who isn't even HOH?

Woah.
Can we be civil?
If you want to institute a "you must be this deaf to enter" rule, you can be the first to apply.
This forum is not just for people with sensriouneural profound hearing loss (as you well know).

Everybody should just take a breath...breathe deeply and realize that there are many ways to be deaf. And that is OK.

There are also many ways to be civil (which is awesome) but there are also many ways to be a jerk (not ok).

 

[NitroHonda]

Woah.
Can we be civil?
If you want to institute a "you must be this deaf to enter" rule, you can be the first to apply.
This forum is not just for people with sensriouneural profound hearing loss (as you well know).

Everybody should just take a breath...breathe deeply and realize that there are many ways to be deaf. And that is OK.

There are also many ways to be civil (which is awesome) but there are also many ways to be a jerk (not ok).

Maybe I'm late to the party. Seems to me that you get your feelings hurt too easily. I saw nothing vindictive about her post. Just truth.

 

[ecp]

Maybe I'm late to the party. Seems to me that you get your feelings hurt too easily. I saw nothing vindictive about her post. Just truth.

My feelings aren't hurt.
I just think that attacking others based on their degree of hearing loss is counterproductive especially since some of the more vocal people have mild to moderate hearing loss but judge parents who have deaf children for their choices.

 

[AlleyCat]

My feelings aren't hurt.
I just think that attacking others based on their degree of hearing loss is counterproductive especially since some of the more vocal people have mild to moderate hearing loss but judge parents who have deaf children for their choices.

Who are you referring to?

 

[ecp]

Who are you referring to?

Take a wild guess.

 

[NitroHonda]

My feelings aren't hurt.
I just think that attacking others based on their degree of hearing loss is counterproductive especially since some of the more vocal people have mild to moderate hearing loss but judge parents who have deaf children for their choices.

I didn't see her doing it like that. Are you hearing? If so, then yeah... it's counterproductive. Again, I may be late to the party and may be missing what's been happening around here. As far as I can tell... she's been one of the better unbiased and open-minded advocate I've seen. There are some real militants in our community.

To use an example of disagreeing... and I hope it's okay with you TXgolfer. I've heard TXgolfer give his thoughts and he has defended himself well. He really made me think about things and THAT'S what it's all about. That being said, it's still hard for me to give him much credence on this topic because he hasn't experienced that part of it on any level whatsoever. It doesn't mean I think (or want) to vilify those who aren't Deaf or HoH or even mainstreamed. They just don't know better. Even I didn't (being initially mainstreamed) until the light just flicked on ultrabright one random day.

As I've said before. Deaf is deaf is still deaf. It doesn't matter how much hearing loss you have. HoH or Deaf matters none! It's still hearing loss and that directly impacts language. Time and time again... the total communication method has been a failure. Vocalization also... a dark failure. Some slip through the cracks and it works well for them... like me for example. I have speech. I'm also betting that she has a lot of "grassroots" friends. What this means is... the Deaf culture where there is ZERO interaction with the hearing world. Most people have labeled them a dimwitted, low functioning, etc... and we know that's simply not true. Their language is truly in a world of their own... and I get that.

 

[ecp]

I didn't see her doing it like that. Are you hearing? If so, then yeah... it's counterproductive. Again, I may be late to the party and may be missing what's been happening around here. As far as I can tell... she's been one of the better unbiased and open-minded advocate I've seen. There are some real militants in our community.

To use an example of disagreeing... and I hope it's okay with you TXgolfer. I've heard TXgolfer give his thoughts and he has defended himself well. He really made me think about things and THAT'S what it's all about. That being said, it's still hard for me to give him much credence on this topic because he hasn't experienced that part of it on any level whatsoever. It doesn't mean I think (or want) to vilify those who aren't Deaf or HoH or even mainstreamed. They just don't know better. Even I didn't (being initially mainstreamed) until the light just flicked on ultrabright one random day.

As I've said before. Deaf is deaf is still deaf. It doesn't matter how much hearing loss you have. HoH or Deaf matters none! It's still hearing loss and that directly impacts language. Time and time again... the total communication method has been a failure. Vocalization also... a dark failure. Some slip through the cracks and it works well for them... like me for example. I have speech. I'm also betting that she has a lot of "grassroots" friends. What this means is... the Deaf culture where there is ZERO interaction with the hearing world. Most people have labeled them a dimwitted, low functioning, etc... and we know that's simply not true. Their language is truly in a world of their own... and I get that.

You make good points. Honestly, I mean that. I need to think (also I have finals for graduate school this week so I really need to avoid distraction (which I've proven that I haven't done thus far today)).

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Do you mean in this thread? I think inclusion (I do support dhh programs) is overrated for a lot of kids with low incidence disabilities. I'm not even talking about academics either.....Education is SO much MORE then sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher drone on and on about something. ....Many if not most dhh kids do not benefit from the incidental learning situation in an inclusive situation. Even the dhh kids who are high honor roll, very often do not benefit from incidental learning oppertunties in an inclusive setting at a mainstream school.
And is that child still young? Wait til they're a bit older.....and how do you know that that child isn't simply faking it very well, like so many of our members here?

No, Dear. Where it REALLY counts.... IN REAL LIFE.

As for academics, it matters! If you can't get a decent education, you can't get a JOB. That goes for any student, D/hh OR NOT. Sounds like you don't give a crap if a kid is prepared for the real world or not. Low wage jobs don't cut it
SSI doesn't cut it.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

What's wrong with that? She's obviously educated and her own experience means a great deal. I do the same thing... I read what others have to say and parallel it with my own experiences and form an independent opinion.

It matters a LOT. Studies and what not are great, but things evolve and change over time. You need to see things in real life on and ongoing and current basis to see . Just because SOME kids don't do well in the mainstream or most kids didn't do well in the mainstream 20-30 yrs ago, doesn't mean that history will always repeat themselves and ALL kids are doomed to that same fate.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Woah.
Can we be civil?
If you want to institute a "you must be this deaf to enter" rule, you can be the first to apply.
This forum is not just for people with sensriouneural profound hearing loss (as you well know).

Everybody should just take a breath...breathe deeply and realize that there are many ways to be deaf. And that is OK.

There are also many ways to be civil (which is awesome) but there are also many ways to be a jerk (not ok).

No. Actually, a few of them can't be civil. But, that's OK. I know what I believe in and stand for.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

As opposed to you who isn't even HOH?

I may not be, but, I will tell you something, Sweetie. I have seen children with PROFOUND losses do well in the mainstream environment. I'm also NOT saying all do. That would be making a sweeping statement, which I will not make. However, I have seen children do well academically AND socially in the mainstream. And, no, I'm not talking about a kid in kindergarten or first grade. I'm talking about a young girl who is now on her way to Junior High school. She is profoundly D/hh and doing well in that setting.

It might behoove you to listen first before you automatically recommend a D/hh school as a knee jerk reaction. That's NOT always the best placement for SOME kids.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Nobody's saying go completely voice off. Even a lot of DODA families have their kids in speech therapy! It's a fact that many if not most HOH kids just get a HA or CI, and speech therapy, and told " all you need is the hearing world!" There is NO LACK of HOH kids getting speech therapy and exposure to the hearing world....heck there's not a lack of deaf kids getting speech therapy and exposure to the hearing world!

NOT always, DD. That's what you are missing here. The girl I know of is NOT completely voice off, but she isn't always exclusively in the hearing world, either. She has the best of BOTH. She was raised with ASL and English. She is fluent in both and uses both when the need arises. Her educational needs are being met in the mainstream. She goes to a mainstream school, but has both hearing and deaf children for friends. She goes to a Deaf church with her parents (who, yes, ARE hearing). They have raised her to be equipped to communicate with both the hearing and the deaf. In case you're wondering, yes, she has a CI. She's bimodal.

I have known this child personally since she was 5 yrs old. She is now 11.5 years old. The girl went to school with my niece and she taught a few signs to her. My niece came home from school and taught ME those same signs.

One size does not fit all. I get that. But, do YOU? You propose there be a continuum. Well, that means advocating for both. Have you ever considered the individual needs of a SPECIFIC child, or do you just want to lump them altogether, and throw them ALL in a D/hh environment; especially if the are doing WELL where they are? Just because someone is deaf or Hoh doesn't mean that they should all be lumped in one group and sent to a school based solely because one has a hearing loss.

I think the best advice to give a parent of a D/HH child is for that parent to do his her her OWN investigating and decide for himself or herself what the best placement for that child is. As long as the child has both ASL and English, where they are being taught academics because secondary. The child will thrive with both. The child may or may NOT thrive if they are limited to one or the other.