I really need some help. Deaf/hearing relationship

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Okay my girlfriend is deaf, I am hearing. She is the first deaf girl I have ever dated. My sign is well enough that when its just us I never have any problem communicating with her and never have had a single problem understanding what she says.

The problem is, when we get around friends I just cant translate things I try the best that I can, and even while driving I try hard to let her know at minimum what the conversation is about. She cant read lips really at all. I feel horrible because I have noticed a few times seeing her feel very left out. My friends try to learn sign but its just like they make a joke of it they dont really try to learn and as with most people are only intersted in learning words for them selves such as curse words. (gah!)

So what can I do to try to make her feel more a part of the conversation while in the car or around a group of my friends that dont sign? I HATE having her feel left out, when shes sad I am sad and when shes having a bad time I have a bad time.

I am scared that this is the only problem we have in our relationship and it just makes me so upset to know that she feels left out.

I have asked her to please tell me immediatly when she feels left out so i know that i need to be trying to translate more, but she wont do it because she feels like if she says she feels left out it will ruin my time. And I try to tell her what ruins my time is when i worry that she feels left out or that im not doing a good enough job translating.

Could any deaf/hearing relationship people please give me some sort of idea on what I can do. Im willing to try anything.

And I dont know how to tell my friends this but they are really pissing me off, its like i cant hang out with them and my girlfriend because we cant just have a normal conversation, suddenly everything is about deaf culture and deaf talk they all ask tons of times for her to teach them curse words or they ask horribly stupid questions like "sooo do you drive?!"

I dont know what to do, my friends I can talk to, but with my girlfriend I just want her to be more comfortable with telling me she feels left out and I need to know what I can do to try to include her more in conversations. Im just not good enough at signing to translate very well. Its so hard to hear something with my ears and then try to spit out out at the same time with my hands.
 
Okay my girlfriend is deaf, I am hearing. She is the first deaf girl I have ever dated. My sign is well enough that when its just us I never have any problem communicating with her and never have had a single problem understanding what she says.

The problem is, when we get around friends I just cant translate things I try the best that I can, and even while driving I try hard to let her know at minimum what the conversation is about. She cant read lips really at all. I feel horrible because I have noticed a few times seeing her feel very left out. My friends try to learn sign but its just like they make a joke of it they dont really try to learn and as with most people are only intersted in learning words for them selves such as curse words. (gah!)

So what can I do to try to make her feel more a part of the conversation while in the car or around a group of my friends that dont sign? I HATE having her feel left out, when shes sad I am sad and when shes having a bad time I have a bad time.

I am scared that this is the only problem we have in our relationship and it just makes me so upset to know that she feels left out.

I have asked her to please tell me immediatly when she feels left out so i know that i need to be trying to translate more, but she wont do it because she feels like if she says she feels left out it will ruin my time. And I try to tell her what ruins my time is when i worry that she feels left out or that im not doing a good enough job translating.

Could any deaf/hearing relationship people please give me some sort of idea on what I can do. Im willing to try anything.

And I dont know how to tell my friends this but they are really pissing me off, its like i cant hang out with them and my girlfriend because we cant just have a normal conversation, suddenly everything is about deaf culture and deaf talk they all ask tons of times for her to teach them curse words or they ask horribly stupid questions like "sooo do you drive?!"

I dont know what to do, my friends I can talk to, but with my girlfriend I just want her to be more comfortable with telling me she feels left out and I need to know what I can do to try to include her more in conversations. Im just not good enough at signing to translate very well. Its so hard to hear something with my ears and then try to spit out out at the same time with my hands.

I understand you are stuck between hearing and deaf world... It is not easy... I had same problem with my marriage of hearing guy... we worked hard trying to make many compromises... what really kept our marriages was our strong love and lots of compromises....
Before my hearing husband passed away..it was not easy for him trying to get me invovled in the hearing world and as for him trying to get imvolved in my deaf world...
I just let him invovled in his hearing and i go ahead with my deaf world..It worked.. with understanding we trusted each other..
You will always have Ups and Downs,, You both have to work it out and makes lots compromises... Start trusting each other... go on with life...
I had wonderful memories of my husband.... in spite of our problems with hearing and deaf friends... Just keep loving her and support her....
True love never runs smooth... Just do not let hearing friends bad mouth about your gf and she does same things about deaf friends.... Keep communications open for you and your gf.. help each other.. support each other...
Thats what I did. I did not let deaf friends saying about my hearing husband .. if they continued thats where friendships ended... My husband did.... Especially his family.. expect my mother in law was wonderful... I loved her very much....she supported both of us.. she knew we love each other...
Just do the best you can do... DO NOT LET HEARIES OR DEAFIES RUIN YOUR RELATIONSHIP... work harder...
It is wonderful knowing you DO love your gf very much... I know it is hard for her to tell you how she feels about being left out.. I did ... I did not want to tell my dear husband how i feel about being left out...He did not gave up.. keep talking to me until his face turned into blue...
You love your gf.. dont give up trying.....it is rough road .... just be strong for your gf
SxyPorkie
 
We do have our own lives but i just want her to be able to hang out with my friends and my self with out feeling left out, especially during car rides. I love her very much and we arent going to let this get in the way, I trust her more than any one in my life. I just need help on how to bridge a connection between the two worlds, I dont want us to have to live sepearte lives and not be able to interact with each others friends.
 
I agree with Skypokie … it’s NOT easy. Compromises is the key. I’m deaf but I can hear some and read lip most of the time. I also married to a hearing guy too. Unfortunately your girlfriend can’t read lips and that make more difficult. Because you want her to get involve with your "hearing" friends, it would be better if involve some activities that you all would like such as playing games/cards, bowling, any sports, etc. I kinda disagree that hearing person has to interpreting all the times. Perhaps you can bring your hearing friends to deaf events to get the idea as well. Wish you a good luck!
 
I agree with Skypokie … it’s NOT easy. Compromises is the key. I’m deaf but I can hear some and read lip most of the time. I also married to a hearing guy too. Unfortunately your girlfriend can’t read lips and that make more difficult. Because you want her to get involve with your "hearing" friends, it would be better if involve some activities that you all would like such as playing games/cards, bowling, any sports, etc. I kinda disagree that hearing person has to interpreting all the times. Perhaps you can bring your hearing friends to deaf events to get the idea as well. Wish you a good luck!


We do things like that, in fact we do those exact things we even play games like cherades and she kicks everyone ass. Its just when were sitting around at the coffee shop chilling, talking, that i know she feels left out. I try hard to keep her informed on whats being said but its just so damn hard.

Since we live in arkansas there arent exactly a lot of deaf events that go on around here. My friends have hung out with our other deaf friends, but they just feel really over whelmed because none of them know sign so that leaves me doing more interpreting but this time trying to get my hearing friends to understand what my deaf friends are saying.

So either way, im stuck trying to interpret.
 
We have been together for 28 years and been married for 24 years. Let say, if we get together at party or dinner with friends, sometime I do left out but it goes same with my family or with my husband's. Living wtih my deafness, nothing u can do to make us happy. Only way for deaf to be happy they stays with their own. I made my choice to be part of hearing world not stick to deaf world only. I do not regret my decision. Others would rather to be with their own kind, but they are still sad. So what does it make any difference? If you try to make her happy, she will still be sad. Try to balance in both world yours and hers, try to find in same common both of u like most. That is what we did, we do things together we like instead of be with friends all the time and deal with issues.

Remember your not responsible for her happiness, she has to do it herself.
 
Okay my girlfriend is deaf, I am hearing. She is the first deaf girl I have ever dated. My sign is well enough that when its just us I never have any problem communicating with her and never have had a single problem understanding what she says.

The problem is, when we get around friends I just cant translate things I try the best that I can, and even while driving I try hard to let her know at minimum what the conversation is about. She cant read lips really at all. I feel horrible because I have noticed a few times seeing her feel very left out. My friends try to learn sign but its just like they make a joke of it they dont really try to learn and as with most people are only intersted in learning words for them selves such as curse words. (gah!)

So what can I do to try to make her feel more a part of the conversation while in the car or around a group of my friends that dont sign? I HATE having her feel left out, when shes sad I am sad and when shes having a bad time I have a bad time.

I am scared that this is the only problem we have in our relationship and it just makes me so upset to know that she feels left out.

I have asked her to please tell me immediatly when she feels left out so i know that i need to be trying to translate more, but she wont do it because she feels like if she says she feels left out it will ruin my time. And I try to tell her what ruins my time is when i worry that she feels left out or that im not doing a good enough job translating.

Could any deaf/hearing relationship people please give me some sort of idea on what I can do. Im willing to try anything.

And I dont know how to tell my friends this but they are really pissing me off, its like i cant hang out with them and my girlfriend because we cant just have a normal conversation, suddenly everything is about deaf culture and deaf talk they all ask tons of times for her to teach them curse words or they ask horribly stupid questions like "sooo do you drive?!"

I dont know what to do, my friends I can talk to, but with my girlfriend I just want her to be more comfortable with telling me she feels left out and I need to know what I can do to try to include her more in conversations. Im just not good enough at signing to translate very well. Its so hard to hear something with my ears and then try to spit out out at the same time with my hands.

I have this exact same problem all the time. I will say mine may be a bit different in that my best friend knows sign well enough to convey ideas in sign so I suppose that makes it easier. It doesn't solve the problem at all though. I will catch us sometimes voicing instead of signing when its just a quick little sentence and we know no one else is paying attention to us. Not that it is right for us to do that, since it is their right to get what we say regardless but I guess thats something I still need to work on. Not to mention hes not always with us and sometimes other hearing friends come along so...

ANYWAYS...

I know exactly what you mean about the interpreting part. I can tell exactly when my girlfriend feels left out but in no way does that make it easier to make her feel not left out. My sign is decent enough but it is far from being able to just interpret everything. I have noticed more and more that my girlfriend will bring along a deaf friend when we go to a more hearing environment so she has someone to talk to if she starts falling behind on our conversations. It still bothers me though even if I know shes having fun talking with that person. It seems like a bandaid fix and doesn't solve what the real problem is... but we still have some things to work on. Sometimes I wish she could go some places without that other deaf friend, you know? Then again I know why she does it because sometimes when I used to go to a more deaf environment I would bring along a friend. I tend to go alone alot more often now as I start feeling more comfortable in such an environment.

As for a perfect fix to this situation... I don't see any besides everyone learning sign and speaking it as their #1 language. Since that doesn't seem like a very possible solution, you are left to just compromising. She will most likely feel left out more then you... That being said you could try going to a few deaf events and feeling the other side. What I mean is that you will most likely feel left out in a situation like that and maybe will get to know what it feels like and understand more why she doesn't say anything. Even when I feel slightly left out in a more deaf environment I will never say anything to her about it at that time. Later I will tell her how it went and what could be done next time to make it a bit smoother. I found its easier to think over how to fix it and present it to her then to try and bandaid fix it on the fly and ruin your night. It's not going to be an overnight fix... thats for sure.

From what I have learned from my girlfriend, she will never say when she feels uncomfortable until way after the situation has passed. This may be later that night or a few days later. From there we will discuss why she felt that way and what she thinks could be done to help solve it. These small compromises will continually improve your situation that you discussed. They may never completely solve the problem but making it more comfortable is on the right track. Atleast she will know your making an effort. She may not push you to make an effort and tell you that its fine. She may even tell you that she deals with it alot but that does NOT make it ok.

I guess what I'm saying is it is really all about compromise and communication. Every situation is different then the next and you really need to just talk with her after a time when you think she was left out. Get her real impressions on it and what she thinks could be done to improve it and work from there. Just have some patience and keep working at it. You will slowly get to a point when you both feel good and comfortable.

Good luck. :)
 
I understand the situation you are in and it seems that compromising is really the only way to go. :dunno2:

As long as you show her that you're there and you understand what she's going through, that's the least you can do. You can sign the conversation to help her follow. But have you ever thought of educating your hearing friends about what it's like being deaf and left out of conversations?

Maybe in a way that won't make them feel sorry or burdened, but that will bring it to their attention? I can see how this may make them think you're overprotective... but I don't see an easy solution to making your girlfriend feeling included.

After all, she's just one person and they may not see any reason to give her extra consideration just because of her deafness. They are already satisfied with their environment and want communication to be as easy as possible on their own terms.

It's just an idea I'm throwing out there.
 
- I totally understand your situation, you are not alone at all. Every hearing person who decides to get involved in the deaf community, or with a person in the deaf community, and learns sign language has to deal with this balancing act.
- I find it easier to deal with signers/non signers separately as much as possible. For me personally, when I started as a student at CSUN, I've just mostly become friends with people who sign. I would say about 90% of my friends, hearing or deaf, sign; all of my close friends do. It helps that I am a deaf studies major, so I naturally socially with and make friends with people who sign. I do have a few hearing friends from my GE classes and other extracurricular activities, but none that I am around a lot.
- I know it's not necessarily your first choice, but when you are with all signers or all hearing people, it is SO much easier. Ideally- I would suggest that you try to hang out with your girlfriend and your friends and her friends that do sign-deaf or hearing- most of the time, then spend time with your hearing friends that don't sign separately.
- Obviously, that's not going to happen all the time. When you do hang out with your gf and non signing friends, it's easier if you are in small groups, best with your gf and one hearing friend. This slows down the conversation, and can give you a lot more time/ability to interpret. It also will give your hearing friends a chance to really get to know your gf and hopefully make them more aware of including her in the future. I also doubt they would be as immature when they aren't in a group of friends.
-As for the driving, just make sure the driver isn't you! If it is one of your hearing friends, you have more opportunity to interpret, and/or have a private, signed conversation with your gf. If your gf drives then it will dispel the myth deaf people can't drive, and it will give her something to do so she won't be bored.
 
That's happened with me and MY MOM. She have hard time to telling me same time to listen people's talkings because it's VERY TOUGH. But jsut take your time to getting use to it then you will be more flexible with that. And, I can't read the lips also. So, tell your friends to ACCEPT your girlfriend for hanging out and even have hard time, if they don't then their loss. I apologize for saying that. Because I know true friends would accept that. And, tell your girlfriend to accept that and try to tap your shoulder to asking you whats up or tellling you that she feel left out or something like that.. She should need to do that more to telling you, just tell her that it wouldn't ruin your time and such like that, would understand... Try it? I hope it will be help.
 
I have this exact same problem all the time. I will say mine may be a bit different in that my best friend knows sign well enough to convey ideas in sign so I suppose that makes it easier. It doesn't solve the problem at all though. I will catch us sometimes voicing instead of signing when its just a quick little sentence and we know no one else is paying attention to us. Not that it is right for us to do that, since it is their right to get what we say regardless but I guess thats something I still need to work on. Not to mention hes not always with us and sometimes other hearing friends come along so...

ANYWAYS...

I know exactly what you mean about the interpreting part. I can tell exactly when my girlfriend feels left out but in no way does that make it easier to make her feel not left out. My sign is decent enough but it is far from being able to just interpret everything. I have noticed more and more that my girlfriend will bring along a deaf friend when we go to a more hearing environment so she has someone to talk to if she starts falling behind on our conversations. It still bothers me though even if I know shes having fun talking with that person. It seems like a bandaid fix and doesn't solve what the real problem is... but we still have some things to work on. Sometimes I wish she could go some places without that other deaf friend, you know? Then again I know why she does it because sometimes when I used to go to a more deaf environment I would bring along a friend. I tend to go alone alot more often now as I start feeling more comfortable in such an environment.

As for a perfect fix to this situation... I don't see any besides everyone learning sign and speaking it as their #1 language. Since that doesn't seem like a very possible solution, you are left to just compromising. She will most likely feel left out more then you... That being said you could try going to a few deaf events and feeling the other side. What I mean is that you will most likely feel left out in a situation like that and maybe will get to know what it feels like and understand more why she doesn't say anything. Even when I feel slightly left out in a more deaf environment I will never say anything to her about it at that time. Later I will tell her how it went and what could be done next time to make it a bit smoother. I found its easier to think over how to fix it and present it to her then to try and bandaid fix it on the fly and ruin your night. It's not going to be an overnight fix... thats for sure.

From what I have learned from my girlfriend, she will never say when she feels uncomfortable until way after the situation has passed. This may be later that night or a few days later. From there we will discuss why she felt that way and what she thinks could be done to help solve it. These small compromises will continually improve your situation that you discussed. They may never completely solve the problem but making it more comfortable is on the right track. Atleast she will know your making an effort. She may not push you to make an effort and tell you that its fine. She may even tell you that she deals with it alot but that does NOT make it ok.

I guess what I'm saying is it is really all about compromise and communication. Every situation is different then the next and you really need to just talk with her after a time when you think she was left out. Get her real impressions on it and what she thinks could be done to improve it and work from there. Just have some patience and keep working at it. You will slowly get to a point when you both feel good and comfortable.

Good luck. :)



Sounds like we are in the exact same situation. My girlfriend will tell me she feels left out but NEVER when its happening she will wait till later that night or the next day, sometimes even days later.

I have been to deaf events with her and I love them, but i dont feel left out because I can sign well enough and understand sign that I never feel left out Im always a part of the conversation. So it doesnt really work the same.

We both feel comfortable, comfort isnt the problem, its trying to find a nice balance between my hearing and my signing. And I just want to make sure that at all times she feels like shes a welcomed part of the conversation.

I agree with everyone that compromise is the key, its just so hard after only beinga aware of the hearing world for 20 years of my life and then suddenly being thrown into the deaf community. Where I have to chose between two lanaguages and inveitably someone feels left out.

For example if we are with my friends at a party or something I will stand by her and we will just have our own little signing party, and its inevitable that someone during the night will say "wow i feel left out" because we are just in our own little world signing. so no matter what someone feels left out, either its me because i cant really participate in the conversation because im so busy trying to translate everything for her, or its her because im not signing enough, or its my firends because im signing.

I just need to work to find the right balance of me speaking, me hearing, and me signing. Which is going to prove to be very difficult.

We have talked about it, and i think were moving in the right direction. thank you all for your support.
 
Just a random question but do your friends ever try to talk directly to her or do they act as if she isn't even there?
 
Just a random question but do your friends ever try to talk directly to her or do they act as if she isn't even there?

It depends I have friends that do both. My friend karyna will actually talk directly to her, but mostly everyone else doesnt even try to talk to her but looks at me immediatly and asks me what they want to ask her and expect me to translate.
 
I am deaf and married to hearing husband - he is not my interpreter full time, since sometimes I find its boring to listen his talk about cars, motorbike, football with his friends. I tried to avoid that so is two hearing couples do that same - don't they?

He don't like to hear mine too, we only talk as we share on something we live, share children, travelling, money as it is.

Deaf people are used to left out as its nothing new to them, I look at other things to keep me occupy, look at things around me, please don't worry too much, your sweet to concern about your partner!
 
I am deaf and married to hearing husband - he is not my interpreter full time, since sometimes I find its boring to listen his talk about cars, motorbike, football with his friends. I tried to avoid that so is two hearing couples do that same - don't they?

He don't like to hear mine too, we only talk as we share on something we live, share children, travelling, money as it is.

Deaf people are used to left out as its nothing new to them, I look at other things to keep me occupy, look at things around me, please don't worry too much, your sweet to concern about your partner!

I understand that deaf people are used to feeling left out, but it shouldnt be that way and im not going to just 'let' the woman i love feel left out because its something shes used to. I wont accept that. I think its important to listen to everything the person you love has to say even if you dont really enjoy that subject. She loves talking about outdoor things, im not really a sporty type of person but i still listen to what she says because i love her and anything shes interested enough to talk about, im interested enough in her to care about it too.

I just want to do whatever I can to make sure she knows that when shes around me shes not going to feel left out, and im going to do everything as i would if she were hearing. I wouldnt want her to not do things because im hearing, i wouldnt want her to not hang out with her deaf friends or not go to a deaf event because i might feel like the odd person out. I want us to emerse our selves in each other and thats the agreement we have come to.

Nothing will be done any differently, if either of us feels left out we have a secret sign to let the other one know that more translation is needed or something needs to be changed so that we feel like we can participate.
 
But have you ever thought of educating your hearing friends about what it's like being deaf and left out of conversations?

I second this, and I also agree that it's almost inevitable that there will be awkwardness in these kinds of situations.

You might want to make it clear to both your girlfriend and your friends that interpreting (not translation, that's the written word ;) ) is a different skill from simply signing. Hearing people especially don't tend to know the difference, hence that comment frequently encountered by ASL 1 or 2 students: "Oh, you can sign well enough to interpret!" If you haven't had experience and practice in interpreting, it doesn't just come naturally for all signers, and there is nothing wrong with that!

Also there's kind of a vicious stress cycle when you are put on the spot to interpret, find it difficult + feel you're letting down the parties involved, and then do an even worse job because you're tense about it. Try your best to do consecutive rather than simultaneous interpreting, meaning listen to your friends and then sum up/condense for your girlfriend, instead of trying to sign as they speak. That kind of interpreting is generally easier and she will still be able to be involved with the conversation even if all parties have to wait a little longer for the communication. And if they're not willing to wait, they're not very good friends!

Hope this helps in some way.
 
I appreciate this discussion because I am also still struggling with this issue. Interpretrator may recall me asking about interpreting in church when I hardly know how to sign. Even though I have made some progress in helping people understand, my frustration level is still too high and church is not suppose to be frustrating. So we've pretty much resolved that problem by not going so much.

Like you, the fact that my husband gets left out of conversations, etc. ticks me off more than it upsets him. And if I make a big deal about it, that upsets him. So it's a balancing act determining what I am able to interpret without getting too upset.

I have tried to teach my family to slow down when having conversation, or to write notes to him. But whenever we get together, the excitement of seeing each other overcomes and my husband is again left out. I am acutely aware and we usually end up signing to each other and ignoring them. I miss out on what they are talking about, but then I think, "Ah heck, it's just my family. I don't have to listen to them." <grin>

I have been thinking about what we might be able to do the next time we get together, such as giving everyone a notepad and pencil and making them write. When I met my husband I had to write everything. If I can do that, so can they.
 
It depends I have friends that do both. My friend karyna will actually talk directly to her, but mostly everyone else doesnt even try to talk to her but looks at me immediatly and asks me what they want to ask her and expect me to translate.

Maybe try and force them to find their own way of communicating which is not through you. By them relying on you to interpret they cut her off even more. Next time they want to talk to her, hand them the paper and pencil and look away. Hopefully then they will be more inclined to include her or talk with her directly once they build their own communication method. If your friends don't act like she is one of their friends then regardless of the fact that she can't hear... she would still feel left out.
 
I second this, and I also agree that it's almost inevitable that there will be awkwardness in these kinds of situations.

You might want to make it clear to both your girlfriend and your friends that interpreting (not translation, that's the written word ;) ) is a different skill from simply signing. Hearing people especially don't tend to know the difference, hence that comment frequently encountered by ASL 1 or 2 students: "Oh, you can sign well enough to interpret!" If you haven't had experience and practice in interpreting, it doesn't just come naturally for all signers, and there is nothing wrong with that!

Also there's kind of a vicious stress cycle when you are put on the spot to interpret, find it difficult + feel you're letting down the parties involved, and then do an even worse job because you're tense about it. Try your best to do consecutive rather than simultaneous interpreting, meaning listen to your friends and then sum up/condense for your girlfriend, instead of trying to sign as they speak. That kind of interpreting is generally easier and she will still be able to be involved with the conversation even if all parties have to wait a little longer for the communication. And if they're not willing to wait, they're not very good friends!

Hope this helps in some way.

See the thing is I have tried to make my hearing friends experience deaf culture, I had them come hang out with my girlfriend and some of our other deaf friends. It was pointless, they just cut everyone off and my hearing friends just ignored the deaf people and just did the usual "ohh teach me curse words" I am just frustrated with my friends. I recently moved from boston to arkansas, and these are people i knew when i was a freshman in college and its rather apparent to me, that its not me, its not my girlfriend its my shitty firends.
 
I second this, and I also agree that it's almost inevitable that there will be awkwardness in these kinds of situations.

You might want to make it clear to both your girlfriend and your friends that interpreting (not translation, that's the written word ;) ) is a different skill from simply signing. Hearing people especially don't tend to know the difference, hence that comment frequently encountered by ASL 1 or 2 students: "Oh, you can sign well enough to interpret!" If you haven't had experience and practice in interpreting, it doesn't just come naturally for all signers, and there is nothing wrong with that!

Also there's kind of a vicious stress cycle when you are put on the spot to interpret, find it difficult + feel you're letting down the parties involved, and then do an even worse job because you're tense about it. Try your best to do consecutive rather than simultaneous interpreting, meaning listen to your friends and then sum up/condense for your girlfriend, instead of trying to sign as they speak. That kind of interpreting is generally easier and she will still be able to be involved with the conversation even if all parties have to wait a little longer for the communication. And if they're not willing to wait, they're not very good friends!

Hope this helps in some way.



And I apologize I am aware that interpretation is vebal/oral and translation is written word I dont know why i insisted on using the two interchangeably.
 
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