Honest but possibly stupid questions from the hearing conservationist in the room

[LK]

Heya. So, some background:

I'm an audiologist. I spent ten years splitting my time between clinical practice and hearing conservation/ hearing loss prevention before deciding that, since the majority of the hearing losses I saw could have been at least partially prevented, I was going about it completely ass backwards. The audiological model is flawed: if dentistry practiced like we do, dentists would never mention brushing or flossing, but would expect to see patients at age 70 or 60 or even younger, to fit them with dentures. This is a really stupid approach.

Now I do full time hearing loss prevention: I teach, monitor hearing in industrial settings, and just generally try to improve awareness of the need to protect hearing from the many environmental hazards which arise.

A lot of my students assume that, as an audiologist, I have this magical pipeline of knowledge into what it is to be hearing impaired, congenitally or otherwise. I've told them what I know; everyone's experience is different. I have mild/moderate high frequency loss which should have been prevented, and that really galls me, but the tinnitus I've had since age 8-9? Not so much. But other people's experiences? I'm not in a great position to say. I have no magical pipeline.

And then it occurred to me that I kinda do...you guys.

So for the sake of educating an educator, who has some really curious students (and curiosity is contagious), please let me know your candid responses.

We'll see how this goes. Mods, let me know if you'd prefer this as a blog; the blog section looks unused, so I started here.

 

[LK]

First question:
If you're born with hearing loss, is it really hearing "loss"? Audiologists go through grief counseling training at some schools, to prepare us to deal with the deep sense of loss patients experience when they recognize their hearing is no longer normal...but what about if you never had "normal" hearing to begin with? If your hearing has never gotten worse than what was, to you, "normal"....is there a sense of loss?

I'm pretty visually impaired, but wasn't diagnosed until about age 10 (before that it was just assumed I was a bit slow and reeeeeaaallllly clumsy). I kind of abstractly wonder now, as an adult, how much different childhood would have been if I could have, for example, seen a ball being thrown at me before it was 5 feet away. But I don't FEEL a particular sense of loss over my vision. Of course, near-sightedness is easily corrected with glasses/ contacts.... hearing loss is not.

So, thoughts?

 

[A Nihilist]

Well as a born HoH person I didn't feel like a real sense of loss or despair. But one thing that really did annoy me at times was I couldn't follow along with conversations sometimes especially in a group when everyone is jumping around.

So I'd sometimes feel a little left out and I just started dealing with it the best I could by avoiding huge group conversations as much as I can.

One thing I do kind of wish I could do is listen to music. I have hearing aids but it doesn't help that much; I still can't make out lyrics even with one of the most powerful hearing aids in the market. Sometimes all the silenced and muted noises gets old and I'd like to enjoy some sensory delights.

But overall I don't feel "poor me" and some people actually get inspired my positive attitude and how I can still function as a healthy person (I'm employed with my own house/car) I just make the best of things and have fun with life in whatever way I can. Obviously I'm not gonna fly a plane but I can ride motorcycles!

 

[dereksbicycles]

Interesting perspective. Yeah, it is true that many of those hearing loss would be prevented. However, many of us look out for ourselves. I don't think people will like it if I told them, "please don't do this. You'll lose your hearing". They're adults and they've to suffer consequences of their action. I would like to think most of the people are not stupid. They know they may get hearing loss doing this or that, but they do it anyway.

See, I know that if I keep eating candies every day, I may have no teeth when I'm 60. Yet, many people do it because they like candy.

People enjoy music so they don't want to think about hearing loss. Worry about it later. Then when it hits them, tough luck.

 

[rolling7]

I don't agree with the statement: near-sightness is easily corrected with glass/contacts....hearing loss is not.


When a deaf person removes HA/CI that person is deaf again? Nope.
When a sight-impaired person removes glasses/contacts that person is near/far-sighted again? Nope.

The wearing of any instruments does not make up for the lost of natural function of the body.

 

[Jolie77]

what about if you never had "normal" hearing to begin with? If your hearing has never gotten worse than what was, to you, "normal"....is there a sense of loss?

That's a good question.

I've been deaf since birth. It has never crossed my mind to think there's a sense of loss. It becomes natural because it's the only way we've known. We adapt to it. Yes, there may be a lot of barriers and frustration but to experience a sense of loss? I would say, No.

Sure, I've always been curious to see what it is like to hear and to understand what it is like. But, that hasn't really deferred anything to make me feel that there's a sense of loss.

Also, it varies with each individual with how their lives are like. I grew up in an environment where ASL is easily accessible from a young age of 18 months. So, with that, I've never truly experienced this sense of loss.

 

[Anij]

First question:
If you're born with hearing loss, is it really hearing "loss"? Audiologists go through grief counseling training at some schools, to prepare us to deal with the deep sense of loss patients experience when they recognize their hearing is no longer normal...but what about if you never had "normal" hearing to begin with? If your hearing has never gotten worse than what was, to you, "normal"....is there a sense of loss?

So, thoughts?

Well, I was born with SSD - it's always been a part of me, just like my eye colour, hair colour, gender etc. I don't feel any "loss" over being born deaf (NR +120db) on my right side ... it's just part of "me". In fact almost every day I'm actually grateful that it's easier for me to block noises at night etc while trying to sleep etc.

I'm now also hoh (with APD) on my left side ... I started losing hearing on my left side when I was about 6 or so, due to ear infections and perhaps genetics (haven't bothered with genetic testing). I now have mild/moderate fluctuating hearing loss on my left side (fluxs about 10-30db) and don't really feel that's a "loss" either.

For me, being Hoh & Deaf is part of who I am. I don't grieve it at all ... but sometimes I do get frustrated by it (I also get frustrated that the shelves in most stores are clearly designed by 6' men and not built for 5'4" women ...).

In many ways being Hoh/Deaf has allowed me to learn things I'd otherwise not ... including how to see people's abilities rather than "limitations". It's allowed me to learn an amazingly beautiful language (ASL), meet great friends, and find a sort of global "family" much like any other cultural or linguistic group.


Does being Hoh or d/Deaf present challenges and frustrations? Sure. The truth though is that everyone will face challenges, discrimination, and frustrations in life - growing up and "being" a Hoh/Deaf person just means that I've got more experience facing those issues in life, making me better able to overcome what stands in my way and move forward.

 

[Anij]

I don't agree with the statement: near-sightness is easily corrected with glass/contacts....hearing loss is not.


When a deaf person removes HA/CI that person is deaf again? Nope.
When a sight-impaired person removes glasses/contacts that person is near/far-sighted again? Nope.

The wearing of any instruments does not make up for the lost of natural function of the body.

I think the point that was being made was that for most people with vision issues (including myself) glasses, contacts or laser surgeries will allow 20/20 or near 20/20 correction which for all intents and purposes makes that person have "normal vision" while wearing the glasses/contacts or post laser.

The difference with hearing aids and CI is that neither "correct", they either amplify existing hearing (complete with distortions etc) or they send artificial electrical impulses which "stimulated" hearing nerves - neither case is true "correction-to-normal" because the person doesn't experience "normal natural hearing" through the HA or CI but a processed, degraded and electronic/processor derived version of it.

 

[LK]

Interesting perspective. Yeah, it is true that many of those hearing loss would be prevented. However, many of us look out for ourselves. I don't think people will like it if I told them, "please don't do this. You'll lose your hearing". They're adults and they've to suffer consequences of their action. I would like to think most of the people are not stupid. They know they may get hearing loss doing this or that, but they do it anyway.

See, I know that if I keep eating candies every day, I may have no teeth when I'm 60. Yet, many people do it because they like candy.

People enjoy music so they don't want to think about hearing loss. Worry about it later. Then when it hits them, tough luck.

We hear a lot of this (aha). There's this idea that people automatically know how loud is damaging. But people don't - which is why noise is one of the leading causes of hearing loss. And as for chemical exposures, most people have absolutely no idea chemicals can even cause damage. It's not that they're stupid; it's that they're completely uneducated on where the risky level is, how common it is, what they should do about it, how to wear hearing protection correctly, etc. A lot of my job is educating people on risks which could be easily avoided, and on understanding that we don't have a cure for noise and chemical-induced hearing loss...we have hearing aids, which put amplified sound into a damaged ear. It's not the same.

It is a bit like preventing damage to teeth...except people see their dentist regularly, are alerted if things are changing, are taught about it in school and by their parents, are trained to brush at an early age, and are told by commercials for tooth care products that there are harmful things out there which should be protected against.

For noise, none of those things happen if the person doesn't work in general industry in excessive noise. They don't see an audiologist every year. in fact, a task force on preventive health care for the US was suggesting that doctors start alerting their patients of the need to monitor hearing only when they were older-middle-aged.... because by then they could be expected to have some hearing loss, and would benefit from hearing aids. That's as stupid as telling people not to see the dentist until age 65, because then they may benefit from dentures.

 

[LK]

Anij, you beat me to my next response, and stated it pretty perfectly. Yeah, once my contacts are in, my vision is 20/20...as good as if my eye's lenses were completely normal. There are vision diseases (like retinal deterioration) which might be more like hearing loss. And hearing losses which are conductive might be expected to be essentially "normal" with amplification; the sensory part works fine, you just have to boost the signal.

I'm pretty short too (5'2"), and find it to be advantageous. Someone recently told me apparently being 5' or shorter counts as a disability...I can't even imagine! But it is frustrating when some things like airbags are designed for 'normal' big hulking people, and could kill me. I live in constant terror of a fender bender.

Thanks for the insights; I figured this was the case, but I prefer to have it from the experts, and unless you're born with hearing loss, you're not an expert on what it's like to be born with hearing loss.

 

[Arceus]

Am late weighing in.... I am now deaf at 58 y.o., 95dB bilateral loss, progressive since grade school, 25dB loss at 10 y.o.

Anij has it exactly right. Sound can be amplified but this is not at all similar to correcting vision via lenses. There are two aspects to hearing loss, diminishment of sensitivity to sound and loss of discrimination. Amplification can compensate to a great extent for mild loss of sensitivity, but there is not much help for loss of discrimination.

At 58, I've been subject to great discrimination in my life, typically in the form of an assumption that I am either mentally impaired or a drug user. (I am a biomedical engineer and Fortune 200 executive) I've finally come to understand that no one is capable of interpreting what they see in others in any other terms than their own direct experience. When others see me as mentally deficient or under the influence it serves as a Rorschach test, projecting their experiences and their identity onto me.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I did not know I had a hearing lost until I got my first HA when I was about
8 yo. I had nothing to compare my hearing to as I was born hoh, so I guess I thought everyone heard like I did. I am losing more hearing , so would I say I am hoh with a hearing lost , I really doubt it.

 

[Emilyyu]

For me, i think deaf people can concentrate more on the things they are doing, as they will not be interrupted by the surroundings. he old saying is that God closes one door, he will open a window for you.

 

[Bebonang]

I was born deaf. I was happy never knowing there were sounds and noises.

I had to put up with crap going through hearing people's mindset that I can hear with hearing aid and spoken (have deaf accent) and never got to learn to sign ASL or Ameslan.

Both mainstream schools like elementary and high school wanted to have only oral-only method and I had a hard time trying to make head and tail on what they said in the hearing classrooms. I had protested to the principal that I couldn't understand what is going on in the classrooms. I wanted to have ASL interpreters in the hearing classrooms but he flatly said no. He believed that I could hear with my hearing aid and that I can lipread 100% accurately. I was so upset with him. No one take me seriously about how important it is to have ASL interpreter so that I could have good grades. I was jealous of my hearing sister who had straight As. Me, I got only C- to D- when I could not understand what was going on. That is why I get so upset and had to relay the story over and over. I know it is all in the past but still if hearing people understand that ASL is important for me to understand what is being said or talked about, then I won't have to be in the dark. I hate to be in the dark. After I graduated, I went to the ASL class and learned to sign Ameslan and the weight on my shoulder was lifted and I was happy, very happy to signed ASL. Then I went to college in Seattle, Washington where they had a Deaf program meaning they have ASL interpreters and notetakers. That was the education I wanted with ASL interpreters and I had excellent grades with As, Bs and Cs. That was a lot better than those dang mainstream schools.

 

[Emilyyu]

I was born deaf. I was happy never knowing there were sounds and noises.

I had to put up with crap going through hearing people's mindset that I can hear with hearing aid and spoken (have deaf accent) and never got to learn to sign ASL or Ameslan.

Both mainstream schools like elementary and high school wanted to have only oral-only method and I had a hard time trying to make head and tail on what they said in the hearing classrooms. I had protested to the principal that I couldn't understand what is going on in the classrooms. I wanted to have ASL interpreters in the hearing classrooms but he flatly said no. He believed that I could hear with my hearing aid and that I can lipread 100% accurately. I was so upset with him. No one take me seriously about how important it is to have ASL interpreter so that I could have good grades. I was jealous of my hearing sister who had straight As. Me, I got only C- to D- when I could not understand what was going on. That is why I get so upset and had to relay the story over and over. I know it is all in the past but still if hearing people understand that ASL is important for me to understand what is being said or talked about, then I won't have to be in the dark. I hate to be in the dark. After I graduated, I went to the ASL class and learned to sign Ameslan and the weight on my shoulder was lifted and I was happy, very happy to signed ASL. Then I went to college in Seattle, Washington where they had a Deaf program meaning they have ASL interpreters and notetakers. That was the education I wanted with ASL interpreters and I had excellent grades with As, Bs and Cs. That was a lot better than those dang mainstream schools.

i can completely understand you.It is much easier if deaf people went deaf school, they can study and make friends without no problem. Suddenly, if they change to normal school, they may experience a variety of rebuffs and discouragement. However, it is all these difficulties that make us strong and more hardworking sometimes, is it?

 

[Bebonang]

i can completely understand you.It is much easier if deaf people went deaf school, they can study and make friends without no problem. Suddenly, if they change to normal school, they may experience a variety of rebuffs and discouragement. However, it is all these difficulties that make us strong and more hardworking sometimes, is it?

In the bold statement, I suppose, but it just make me set back and not get what I needed to get employment or going to college. They are not giving me the positive goals that I needed as a deaf person. It was the struggle that is hard.

I did worked as a key punch operator in the late 1960s until 1973. I tried to find a job and they all want someone to work in office skills with phones. I had offered them that I can use the relay service on my TDD to communicate if needed. But no, they want me to use the phone orally and to listen on the phone. Ugh!!!! So I was out of the job for a long time after that. Hearing society have no regard for any kind of disabilities and refuse to hire us.

 

[Lau2046]

Heya. So, some background:

I'm an audiologist. I spent ten years splitting my time between clinical practice and hearing conservation/ hearing loss prevention before deciding that, since the majority of the hearing losses I saw could have been at least partially prevented, I was going about it completely ass backwards. The audiological model is flawed: if dentistry practiced like we do, dentists would never mention brushing or flossing, but would expect to see patients at age 70 or 60 or even younger, to fit them with dentures. This is a really stupid approach.

Now I do full time hearing loss prevention: I teach, monitor hearing in industrial settings, and just generally try to improve awareness of the need to protect hearing from the many environmental hazards which arise.

A lot of my students assume that, as an audiologist, I have this magical pipeline of knowledge into what it is to be hearing impaired, congenitally or otherwise. I've told them what I know; everyone's experience is different. I have mild/moderate high frequency loss which should have been prevented, and that really galls me, but the tinnitus I've had since age 8-9? Not so much. But other people's experiences? I'm not in a great position to say. I have no magical pipeline.

And then it occurred to me that I kinda do...you guys.

So for the sake of educating an educator, who has some really curious students (and curiosity is contagious), please let me know your candid responses.

We'll see how this goes. Mods, let me know if you'd prefer this as a blog; the blog section looks unused, so I started here.

Late to the thread but to answer your question: I was born with bilateral SNHL. Moderate to severe for much of my life but now the right ear is moving to profound...and that threw me for a while..I had myself tested three times, but three different people before I accepted it. Growing up, I didn't feel any stigma or sense of loss because of my hearing. I had grand mal seizures as a child, which I thankfully out grew, and I struggled with learning disabilities my whole life. I was ostracized by my classmates from grade school through high school and I've been told more than once that I have Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from the experience. I remain socially isolated as an adult. My deafness is more of an inconvenience than anything else. My LD is my true disability...although if I could be cured of both, I'd be first in line. I'm new to digital hearing aids and they take some getting used to, but I enjoy what I hear with them and I feel blessed to hear all the sounds I love.

Laura

 

[Emilyyu]

In the bold statement, I suppose, but it just make me set back and not get what I needed to get employment or going to college. They are not giving me the positive goals that I needed as a deaf person. It was the struggle that is hard.

I did worked as a key punch operator in the late 1960s until 1973. I tried to find a job and they all want someone to work in office skills with phones. I had offered them that I can use the relay service on my TDD to communicate if needed. But no, they want me to use the phone orally and to listen on the phone. Ugh!!!! So I was out of the job for a long time after that. Hearing society have no regard for any kind of disabilities and refuse to hire us.

why not choose a job that can help the deaf people? You can do anything in the deaf people’s world and no one will reject you there.