Gally Regional Deaf Academic Bowl

hearing kids - I was mainstreamed all of my life and I cant say anything about the deaf schools since I never experienced them during my educational years.

But it should apply to all students in the educational system.
 
Dixie said:
hearing kids - I was mainstreamed all of my life and I cant say anything about the deaf schools since I never experienced them during my educational years.

But it should apply to all students in the educational system.
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Exactly. What I don't understand is that we are graduating hearing students without basic skills, and still expect a deaf child to receive a top notch edcuation in a placement that cannot even adequately educate the non-deaf students.
 
I read somewhere that about half of all college freshman have to take at least 1 remedial course during their freshman year. This isnt surprising to me, why are post-secondary institutions accepting freshmen that are simply not ready for collegiate level work?

But then again as previously stated it is not the post-secondary level's problem, its something that starts at the primary level. Not getting that solid foundation to succeed.
 
Dixie said:
I read somewhere that about half of all college freshman have to take at least 1 remedial course during their freshman year. This isnt surprising to me, why are post-secondary institutions accepting freshmen that are simply not ready for collegiate level work?

But then again as previously stated it is not the post-secondary level's problem, its something that starts at the primary level. Not getting that solid foundation to succeed.
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Because if they didn't accept them probationally and allow them to take remedical courses, out colleges would not have any students to enroll. Sad, isn't it?
 
As discriminatory as this may sound - perhaps depending on your high school exit exam scores will determine if you will be remediated for 1 additional year of high school, simply be thrown straight into the workforce, or if you wil be eligible to continue to post-secondary school.

Students will be allowed to try and pass their exit exams twice, if they fail a second time they will be given a certificate of attendance and will be offered a job straight into the workforce. These are the kids that simply have not learned or simply cannot retain information very well to handle a collegiate workload.

The exit exam would basically measure one's ability to have basic function to survive on their own, and one's ability to go on to higher levels of education.

I remember one time I was talking to a fellow classmate of mine at the university, he was describing his remedial algebra class and what not, but then I asked him his major of study, he replied he wanted to be an accountant. :eek: Thats a scary thought. He was a nice kid but I thought to myself if you're having this much trouble with remedial algebra you might want to consider studying something less numeric like uhhhh Art??

I think if the public schools raised the bar instead of feeling sorry for little Johnny I think little Johnny woiuld rise to meet it and really be set up for success in life.

Used to if a student did not meet the requirements of graduating - they were given a certificate of attendance, not a diploma, allowed to walk with the class, but the following week they were at the local adult learning centres working on their GEDs - just so they could get a job flipping burgers at Sonic. They were told right off that they were not going to be coddled, if they wanted to survive they were going to have to work at it. But thing is a GED is the equivalent of a 9th grade completion, not a high school diploma equivalent.

Those that got the actual diploma - had to prove it. They had to pass every single class from 9th grade on.

Now those who dont pass well they are given a diploma but it states on the transcript - remedial coursework or special education curriculum. These kids are nowhere near ready to attend college.

And those who do actually get the diploma - they have to take exit exams which test only to about the 9th or 10th grade levels and not every student passes. I think those that dont pass graduate under the special education curriculum. The schools are doing these kids a disservice.
 
Dixie said:
As discriminatory as this may sound - perhaps depending on your high school exit exam scores will determine if you will be remediated for 1 additional year of high school, simply be thrown straight into the workforce, or if you wil be eligible to continue to post-secondary school.

Students will be allowed to try and pass their exit exams twice, if they fail a second time they will be given a certificate of attendance and will be offered a job straight into the workforce. These are the kids that simply have not learned or simply cannot retain information very well to handle a collegiate workload.

The exit exam would basically measure one's ability to have basic function to survive on their own, and one's ability to go on to higher levels of education.

I remember one time I was talking to a fellow classmate of mine at the university, he was describing his remedial algebra class and what not, but then I asked him his major of study, he replied he wanted to be an accountant. :eek: Thats a scary thought. He was a nice kid but I thought to myself if you're having this much trouble with remedial algebra you might want to consider studying something less numeric like uhhhh Art??

I think if the public schools raised the bar instead of feeling sorry for little Johnny I think little Johnny woiuld rise to meet it and really be set up for success in life.

Used to if a student did not meet the requirements of graduating - they were given a certificate of attendance, not a diploma, allowed to walk with the class, but the following week they were at the local adult learning centres working on their GEDs - just so they could get a job flipping burgers at Sonic. They were told right off that they were not going to be coddled, if they wanted to survive they were going to have to work at it. But thing is a GED is the equivalent of a 9th grade completion, not a high school diploma equivalent.

Those that got the actual diploma - had to prove it. They had to pass every single class from 9th grade on.

Now those who dont pass well they are given a diploma but it states on the transcript - remedial coursework or special education curriculum. These kids are nowhere near ready to attend college.

And those who do actually get the diploma - they have to take exit exams which test only to about the 9th or 10th grade levels and not every student passes. I think those that dont pass graduate under the special education curriculum. The schools are doing these kids a disservice.
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I see your points and they are valid. The fact of the matter is, not every student is served well in a post-secondary environment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor is it discriminatory. The problem arises when those who would be successful in a post-secondary environment are given a diploma that allows them to believe they are prepared to do collegiate level work, when in fact, they are not.
 
Buffalo said:
I looked up Hamlet online and can't find the name of the city. The scene take place in Elsinore Castle in the country of Denmark. I don't think the name of the castle also is the name of the town.
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I couldn't find find the name of the town either.
 
i'm pretty sure the answer is Elsinore (in english, or Helsingor i guess) and that it is mentioned more than once in the play.
 
jillio said:
I see your points and they are valid. The fact of the matter is, not every student is served well in a post-secondary environment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor is it discriminatory. The problem arises when those who would be successful in a post-secondary environment are given a diploma that allows them to believe they are prepared to do collegiate level work, when in fact, they are not.
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Well nowdays many schools have a Pre-K program that prepares the kids for what kindergarten is going to be like. This program basically teaches them what behavior is expected, what activities they will do throughout the day, and what have you not. Already those enrolling in Kindergarten (at least in my state) have to take a basic Kindergarten readiness test that tests their knowledge against the average knowledge of a child entering kindergarten, meaning they need to learn their colors, shapes, the Alphabet in upper and lowercase, prepositions, and be able to write their name legibly. As part of this they also take a basic eye exam and a hearing test.

Why cant they have a similar program for those entering post-secondary education? Test them for things they should know upon entering college (and yes this is often higher than a 12th grade level) and a program where they are given a similar workload that is to be expected of them at a University. I think with such a program we would have a higher success rate. Schools are already seeing improvements with the use of Pre-K programs. Surely the same concept would work for students entering college. Yes this could postpone college for another year - but perhaps our students need another year to prepare for it despite having graduated from High School.
 
Dixie said:
Well nowdays many schools have a Pre-K program that prepares the kids for what kindergarten is going to be like. This program basically teaches them what behavior is expected, what activities they will do throughout the day, and what have you not. Already those enrolling in Kindergarten (at least in my state) have to take a basic Kindergarten readiness test that tests their knowledge against the average knowledge of a child entering kindergarten, meaning they need to learn their colors, shapes, the Alphabet in upper and lowercase, prepositions, and be able to write their name legibly. As part of this they also take a basic eye exam and a hearing test.

Why cant they have a similar program for those entering post-secondary education? Test them for things they should know upon entering college (and yes this is often higher than a 12th grade level) and a program where they are given a similar workload that is to be expected of them at a University. I think with such a program we would have a higher success rate. Schools are already seeing improvements with the use of Pre-K programs. Surely the same concept would work for students entering college. Yes this could postpone college for another year - but perhaps our students need another year to prepare for it despite having graduated from High School.
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We use the same readiness tests in our program too. I have to agree with u on the points you have made.
 
Dixie said:
Well nowdays many schools have a Pre-K program that prepares the kids for what kindergarten is going to be like. This program basically teaches them what behavior is expected, what activities they will do throughout the day, and what have you not. Already those enrolling in Kindergarten (at least in my state) have to take a basic Kindergarten readiness test that tests their knowledge against the average knowledge of a child entering kindergarten, meaning they need to learn their colors, shapes, the Alphabet in upper and lowercase, prepositions, and be able to write their name legibly. As part of this they also take a basic eye exam and a hearing test.

Why cant they have a similar program for those entering post-secondary education? Test them for things they should know upon entering college (and yes this is often higher than a 12th grade level) and a program where they are given a similar workload that is to be expected of them at a University. I think with such a program we would have a higher success rate. Schools are already seeing improvements with the use of Pre-K programs. Surely the same concept would work for students entering college. Yes this could postpone college for another year - but perhaps our students need another year to prepare for it despite having graduated from High School.
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They are tested. That is how it is determined that they need to take remedial courses. Every student entering the university where I am is tested in reading comprehension, writing, and mathematics. If they fall below the expected collegiate level, they are required to take remedial courses and pass them before they can enroll in the program of major that they have chosen, and before they can enroll in required college level courses. Itdoesn't really postpone college for a year, as they are attending. But it does postpone their degree work for up to a year. Most requiring remedical couses will not be able to complete their degree in a 4 yeartime span, because of the additionaltime needed to complete the remedial courses.
 
Dixie said:
As discriminatory as this may sound - perhaps depending on your high school exit exam scores will determine if you will be remediated for 1 additional year of high school, simply be thrown straight into the workforce, or if you wil be eligible to continue to post-secondary school.

Students will be allowed to try and pass their exit exams twice, if they fail a second time they will be given a certificate of attendance and will be offered a job straight into the workforce. These are the kids that simply have not learned or simply cannot retain information very well to handle a collegiate workload.

The exit exam would basically measure one's ability to have basic function to survive on their own, and one's ability to go on to higher levels of education.

I remember one time I was talking to a fellow classmate of mine at the university, he was describing his remedial algebra class and what not, but then I asked him his major of study, he replied he wanted to be an accountant. :eek: Thats a scary thought. He was a nice kid but I thought to myself if you're having this much trouble with remedial algebra you might want to consider studying something less numeric like uhhhh Art??

I think if the public schools raised the bar instead of feeling sorry for little Johnny I think little Johnny woiuld rise to meet it and really be set up for success in life.

Used to if a student did not meet the requirements of graduating - they were given a certificate of attendance, not a diploma, allowed to walk with the class, but the following week they were at the local adult learning centres working on their GEDs - just so they could get a job flipping burgers at Sonic. They were told right off that they were not going to be coddled, if they wanted to survive they were going to have to work at it. But thing is a GED is the equivalent of a 9th grade completion, not a high school diploma equivalent.

Those that got the actual diploma - had to prove it. They had to pass every single class from 9th grade on.

Now those who dont pass well they are given a diploma but it states on the transcript - remedial coursework or special education curriculum. These kids are nowhere near ready to attend college.

And those who do actually get the diploma - they have to take exit exams which test only to about the 9th or 10th grade levels and not every student passes. I think those that dont pass graduate under the special education curriculum. The schools are doing these kids a disservice.
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I think it's unfair to give these kids a certificate cuz they "tried". Seriously, there are a lot of people out there getting lazier and lazier. If they don't want to waste their time proving their intelligence so that they can work, they play "dumb" and then work. When that happens, it becomes harder for those who are actually trying to prove their own intelligence.

I've been passed by several times on several job applications at NTID due to them feeling that they should give unqualified students a chance. They end up losing those they hired because they didn't do their jobs or were horrible at their jobs. :(
 
jillio said:
They are tested. That is how it is determined that they need to take remedial courses. Every student entering the university where I am is tested in reading comprehension, writing, and mathematics. If they fall below the expected collegiate level, they are required to take remedial courses and pass them before they can enroll in the program of major that they have chosen, and before they can enroll in required college level courses. Itdoesn't really postpone college for a year, as they are attending. But it does postpone their degree work for up to a year. Most requiring remedical couses will not be able to complete their degree in a 4 yeartime span, because of the additionaltime needed to complete the remedial courses.
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They do the same thing at NTID. All deaf students entering NTID are required to take assessment tests to determine if they are ready for certain courses or ready to go directly to RIT. Sadly, they do this only for deaf students and not hearing students. I've seen a lot of hearing students at RIT who are not as smart as those deaf students stuck in NTID.

I've proctored assessment tests before at NTID and it's surprising how these students do these tests.

The math tests are very easy. It's basic algebra. If you can do well in this part, then you can go ahead and take "College Algebra" (first required math course in RIT). If you do too well, RIT might waive "College Algebra" and let you take the next required math course for your major.

How do students do on the math tests? Sometimes, I can tell what they were thinking. Since I'm already good at math, I will go through the test through my mind as if I was taking the test. If a student is as good as I am, he/she will finish around the same time I did... and have a lot of correct answers. If a student finishes after I finish, they either don't know or they took longer to solve the problems. Well, I've seen students walk up and drop off their tests before I even finish my test. So, I'll take a peek at these tests (while checking to see if they were filled out properly)... and I'll see a lot of wrong answers. This is likely cuz the student just didn't care and just guessed the answers so that he could leave and have fun.

The reading test are basically short paragraphs (5 to 10 sentences) and ask students to answer what they read. For instance... "What year did Bob enter America?" "What color car did Jill drive?" "How old is Jack in the story?"

I do the same trick for this test as I do for the math test. Again, I've seen students finish before I even finish. (I'm actually a speed reader.) They have wrong answers and they just walk out.

During another jobs where I was a student mentor, I've had one-on-one meetings with many deaf students. Sadly, some of them have complained that their teachers hated them and were trying to fail them. Others would say that they don't care about being in school, and that they were in school cuz their parents forced them to. They weren't worried about money since it was their VR that was paying for it (or their rich parents). So, who cares?

Those that claim that their teachers hated them or were out to fail them were actually lazy themselves. I had one student claim that she always did her homework and did well on them. However, she was always skipping class cuz she had a hangover from a huge party the night before. (Yep, she partied with drugs and alcohol almost every night.) A lot of NTID classes grade strictly on attendance. If you miss more than 5 classes, you're in trouble. This gal missed over 5 classes. She also missed the pop quizzes that were given on the days she was absent. "But, that's not my fault. I had a hangover. I couldn't help it. The teacher saw me absent and decided to take advantage of that by giving the pop quiz. That's how I'm failing. My teacher hates me!"

So, all of these bullshit stories of school being hard is just for attention or for us to take it easy on them.
 
At Gallaudet we had to take the COMPASS tests before being placed.
 
Etoile said:
At Gallaudet we had to take the COMPASS tests before being placed.
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The COMPASS is the same one we use. And even students who have scored well of ACT or SAT must take it. It is given to all students.
 
VamPyroX said:
They do the same thing at NTID. All deaf students entering NTID are required to take assessment tests to determine if they are ready for certain courses or ready to go directly to RIT. Sadly, they do this only for deaf students and not hearing students. I've seen a lot of hearing students at RIT who are not as smart as those deaf students stuck in NTID.

I've proctored assessment tests before at NTID and it's surprising how these students do these tests.

The math tests are very easy. It's basic algebra. If you can do well in this part, then you can go ahead and take "College Algebra" (first required math course in RIT). If you do too well, RIT might waive "College Algebra" and let you take the next required math course for your major.

How do students do on the math tests? Sometimes, I can tell what they were thinking. Since I'm already good at math, I will go through the test through my mind as if I was taking the test. If a student is as good as I am, he/she will finish around the same time I did... and have a lot of correct answers. If a student finishes after I finish, they either don't know or they took longer to solve the problems. Well, I've seen students walk up and drop off their tests before I even finish my test. So, I'll take a peek at these tests (while checking to see if they were filled out properly)... and I'll see a lot of wrong answers. This is likely cuz the student just didn't care and just guessed the answers so that he could leave and have fun.

The reading test are basically short paragraphs (5 to 10 sentences) and ask students to answer what they read. For instance... "What year did Bob enter America?" "What color car did Jill drive?" "How old is Jack in the story?"

I do the same trick for this test as I do for the math test. Again, I've seen students finish before I even finish. (I'm actually a speed reader.) They have wrong answers and they just walk out.

During another jobs where I was a student mentor, I've had one-on-one meetings with many deaf students. Sadly, some of them have complained that their teachers hated them and were trying to fail them. Others would say that they don't care about being in school, and that they were in school cuz their parents forced them to. They weren't worried about money since it was their VR that was paying for it (or their rich parents). So, who cares?

Those that claim that their teachers hated them or were out to fail them were actually lazy themselves. I had one student claim that she always did her homework and did well on them. However, she was always skipping class cuz she had a hangover from a huge party the night before. (Yep, she partied with drugs and alcohol almost every night.) A lot of NTID classes grade strictly on attendance. If you miss more than 5 classes, you're in trouble. This gal missed over 5 classes. She also missed the pop quizzes that were given on the days she was absent. "But, that's not my fault. I had a hangover. I couldn't help it. The teacher saw me absent and decided to take advantage of that by giving the pop quiz. That's how I'm failing. My teacher hates me!"

So, all of these bullshit stories of school being hard is just for attention or for us to take it easy on them.
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You know, I have to agree. I have heard the same excuses from hearing students who end up on academic probation. Its never their fault!:giggle:

IMO, the placement tests at RIT should be given to all students, notjust def students.
 
I totally agree...it should be given to ALL students not just d/Deaf students...how is there not a lawsuit over this?! That's downright discrimination. Isn't it?
 
deafbajagal said:
I totally agree...it should be given to ALL students not just d/Deaf students...how is there not a lawsuit over this?! That's downright discrimination. Isn't it?
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It's possible RIT does have a similar test, but not as strict. :(

My old community college does have the same thing.
 
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