Fines Proposed for Going Without Health Insurance

jillio said:
Actually, the medically uninsured do affect everyone else by causing costs to escalate. When a cancer patient who is uninsured runs up $200,000 in medical care costs, who do you think pays for them? I can guarantee you that the hospital, the doctors, and the medical suppliers don't write that off. We all pay for it in excalating medical costs.

Medicare and Medicaid are health insurance.
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yes. again - I'm fine with paying tax for medicare/medicaid and like you said - these are health insurance offered by government. so why am I paying for another one?

Affordable health cost. Preventative medicine. Regulations for insurances to continue covering all clients (with or without pre-existing conditions). Those are the keys to reducing medical cost and to our health issue. Mandatory health insurance does not make sense. It solves nothing. It increases financial burden on us.
 
That includes the 20,30 or 40 million or so illegal immigrants who do not have to pay when admitted to a hospital.

The three main problems are the fraud, waste, and malpractice lawsuits that incur higher health care costs.
 
Jiro, it's another form of wealth distribution disguised as a fine or taxations.
 
Jiro said:
yes. again - I'm fine with paying tax for medicare/medicaid and like you said - these are health insurance offered by government. so why am I paying for another one?

Affordable health cost. Preventative medicine. Regulations for insurances to continue covering all clients (with or without pre-existing conditions). Those are the keys to reducing medical cost and to our health issue. Mandatory health insurance does not make sense. It solves nothing. It increases financial burden on us.
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You won't be. It really is all in the bill. As long as we have uninsured patients racking up millions in dollars in health care bills that they cannot pay ( and yes, insurance companies are in large part responsibile for those individuals when the drop a client because they have been diagnosed with a terminal illness, or refuse to cover care for chronic illness using the pre-exisiting condition clause) then medical care will continue to go up and up. We all pay for it. We pay for it when we go to the doctor and get charged an exhorbitant fee for a simple consultation. We pay for it when we go to the hospital and get charged $20.00 for a Tylenol. There are not enough medical malpractice suits filed in 10 years time to account for the costs.
 
kokonut said:
Jiro, it's another form of wealth distribution disguised as a fine or taxations.
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It absolutely is not. Read the bill. Just because Rush told you it's wealth distribution doesn't mean it is.
 
kokonut said:
That includes the 20,30 or 40 million or so illegal immigrants who do not have to pay when admitted to a hospital.

The three main problems are the fraud, waste, and malpractice lawsuits that incur higher health care costs.
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What about the citizens of this country that do not pay for their medical costs because they are uninsured and low income? There are more of them in this country than there are illegal aliens.

And you have yet to explain how it is that the states that have enacted tort reform and placed caps on medical malpractice claims have not seen a reduction in medical costs.
 
Using insurance to pay for medical bills makes the cost go up.

Patients who pay cash for their health services are charged less than insured patients.

I've done it myself, so I know it's true. Also, I heard a woman today explain how she needed an x-ray. If she used her insurance it would cost $269. She called around and found someone else who would do it for cash, not filing thru insurance. It cost her $20.

Once they make insurance mandatory all costs will probably go up and the cash options will disappear.
 
That is because insurance companies pay on a fee schedule, or a percentage of physician's fees in some cases. They do not pay the actual fee. Likewise, it is cheaper for a physician to get paid cash up front and not have to have staff deal with the insurance companies and wait months for reimbursement. They can't charge interest while they wait, often times, up to a year to receive payment.

By the same token, I don't know many people that can walk into a hospital and pay $200,000 up front in cash for cancer treatment. It is catastrophic care that contributes most to the escalating costs. Catastrophic care that is often denied by insurance companies and catastrophic care for the uninsured.
 
jillio said:
You won't be. It really is all in the bill. As long as we have uninsured patients racking up millions in dollars in health care bills that they cannot pay ( and yes, insurance companies are in large part responsibile for those individuals when the drop a client because they have been diagnosed with a terminal illness, or refuse to cover care for chronic illness using the pre-exisiting condition clause) then medical care will continue to go up and up. We all pay for it. We pay for it when we go to the doctor and get charged an exhorbitant fee for a simple consultation. We pay for it when we go to the hospital and get charged $20.00 for a Tylenol. There are not enough medical malpractice suits filed in 10 years time to account for the costs.
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people will always be sick. Point is - we just need to make it affordable for them and for us. A 5-min consultation should not cost us $150+. A Tylenol should not cost us $20. A shot in the arm should not cost us $200+. These does not make sense. Since uninsured patients are racking up millions in dollars, then imagine how much the (mandatory) health insurances have to pay. It is not profitable and the health insurance sector will shrink...... which will lead to more people being uninsured and being left with costly coverage options.

but then..... the doctors should not be paying exorbitant amount for their malpractice insurance either. Help the doctors to pay less for their malpractice insurance.... then the doctors can help us by making it affordable.
 
Jiro said:
people will always be sick. Point is - we just need to make it affordable for them and for us. A 5-min consultation should not cost us $150+. A Tylenol should not cost us $20. A shot in the arm should not cost us $200+. These does not make sense. Since uninsured patients are racking up millions in dollars, then imagine how much the (mandatory) health insurances have to pay. It is not profitable and the health insurance sector will shrink...... which will lead to more people being uninsured and being left with costly coverage options.

but then..... the doctors should not be paying exorbitant amount for their malpractice insurance either. Help the doctors to pay less for their malpractice insurance.... then the doctors can help us by making it affordable.
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No, those costs shouldn't be that high. That is exactly why we need health care reform. How do you propose to bring down those costs as long as the uninsured are racking up millions of dollars in bills that have to be covered somehow? Hospitals and doctors have to pay for supplies and staff and other overhead costs. Malpractice insurance is but one of those costs.

It is a matter of risk spread. Not all insurers will be paying catastophic costs for every member. However, the hospital does have to provide treatment for every patient that has a catastrophic illness. The insurance company's risk for catastrophic costs is less than the hospital's risk. Insurance companies will see some of these patients on their rolls. But it is a given that the hospitals will see them whether they are insured or not.
 
jillio said:
Suspended or revoked...and a hefty fine to go with it. Some people don't want to carry auto insurance, either. But, if they don't, then they have to pay the penalties when caught without it.

The situations can be different, but the fact of the matter is, mandatory auto insurance became law to reduce the costs to the rest of society that go up when there are uninsured drivers on the road. The same principle applies to health care. As long as there are uninsured people that the rest of society has to pick up the costs for, medical costs will continue to skyrocket.
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jillio said:
Auto insurance also covers passengers which may or may not be drivers, or even of the age to drive.

It most certainly is about choice. The choice to have medical care accessable to all in this country.

Uninsured drivers equals higher costs for insured drivers. Uninsured patients equals higher costs for insured patients.
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jillio said:
So...it is more important that mandatory coverage on automobiles be in effect that mandatory health care coverage? More important to be able to fix your car, or a car you hit, than to provide health care coverage for your children and yourself? Nice one.
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jillio said:
Actually, the medically uninsured do affect everyone else by causing costs to escalate. When a cancer patient who is uninsured runs up $200,000 in medical care costs, who do you think pays for them? I can guarantee you that the hospital, the doctors, and the medical suppliers don't write that off. We all pay for it in excalating medical costs.

Medicare and Medicaid are health insurance.
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Yes, that´s what I tried to say at other thread few months ago.
 
Reba said:
Using insurance to pay for medical bills makes the cost go up.

Patients who pay cash for their health services are charged less than insured patients.

I've done it myself, so I know it's true. Also, I heard a woman today explain how she needed an x-ray. If she used her insurance it would cost $269. She called around and found someone else who would do it for cash, not filing thru insurance. It cost her $20.

Once they make insurance mandatory all costs will probably go up and the cash options will disappear.
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:shock:
 
jillio said:
No, those costs shouldn't be that high. That is exactly why we need health care reform. How do you propose to bring down those costs as long as the uninsured are racking up millions of dollars in bills that have to be covered somehow? Hospitals and doctors have to pay for supplies and staff and other overhead costs. Malpractice insurance is but one of those costs.

It is a matter of risk spread. Not all insurers will be paying catastophic costs for every member. However, the hospital does have to provide treatment for every patient that has a catastrophic illness. The insurance company's risk for catastrophic costs is less than the hospital's risk. Insurance companies will see some of these patients on their rolls. But it is a given that the hospitals will see them whether they are insured or not.
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Obama brought up excellent points to address those issues.

1. digitize our medical files that will reduce cost & time in unnecessary diagnosis, paperwork, overhead cost, etc.
2. offer incentive for doctors/hospitals to make patients healthy
3. emphasize on preventative medicine & healthy lifestyle via school fitness programs, commercials, etc.
4. give more legal protection for doctors/hospitals from frivolous malpractice lawsuits
 
Liebling:-))) said:
:shock:
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why so surprised? It's how we do it in America. Cash Option.... it's a good deal. Remember my post about my chiropractor? I paid about $50(??) cash for procedure + x-ray when the actual cost was about $300+ with insurance.

damn. i'm bad with remembering numbers but you get the idea.
 
kokonut said:
It's in the guise to distribute wealth at the point of a gun, euphemistically so. This isn't about choice but government intervention and bullying. And you're right, the auto insurance requirement is designed to help protect the insured drivers and others from liabilities and medical expenses where it may involve several individuals. Comparing auto insurance requirement for a driver to a health insurance mandate for each one person is comparing apples to oranges.
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No, it´s not comparing apple to orange.

Its about save your life is health insurance and auto insurance.

Health insurance is to protect yourself as the same as auto insurance driver as well.
 
Jiro said:
Obama brought up excellent points to address those issues.

1. digitize our medical files that will reduce cost & time in unnecessary diagnosis, paperwork, overhead cost, etc.
2. offer incentive for doctors/hospitals to make patients healthy
3. emphasize on preventative medicine & healthy lifestyle via school fitness programs, commercials, etc.
4. give more legal protection for doctors/hospitals from frivolous malpractice lawsuits
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Exactly. All but number one involve changes in the way patients are insured. Too many insurance companies refuse to pay for preventive care...people only see a doctor after becoming seriously ill, thus increasing costs of treatment. It has long been known that preventive care reduces costs, but insurance companies will not pay for it in most circumstances. The bill proposes changes in that.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
You still receive the treatment when you are out of work, no money or whatever under Obama´s healthcare reform.
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if that's the case, then what about the unemployed patient with a very very costly medical cost because of cancer?

This reform will fail and we will be broke.
 
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