Do you support suicide assistance?

[Byrdie714]

Let me get something straight here, nobody is telling nobody what to do with their life, and their body. we are just saying we don't agree with it, nothing more nothing less. I would respect the wishes of friends or family members or anyone else whatever their choice would be, and I would hope you all would do the same for me. Respect my opinions as well as others here who had voted "no".

Exactly.

Right Cherie, and what really disturbs me is a few had mentioned in this thread that "It's easy for people to say or vote "no" when they have never experienced or witness the suffering of a family member" how is that respecting our choices/wishes?

I personally think this is a very good discussion and I'm only here to share my views, not here to change anyone's decisions or telling them what to do with their own bodies.

As I mentioned in a previous post--I am going to vote "yes" on Intiative 1000 in this state legalizing the right-to-die.

Morally is it right or wrong? I don't know but I do know that I don't have to force the issue on someone who can benefit from it.

Secondly just because it becomes law--doesn't necessairly mean that you have to partake in it.

 

[Jiro]

And, yet the heart still pumpin' to give an oxygen with lungs ? A brain-dead patient still breathin' and, yet not die ? It doesn't make sense to me, Jiro. Once an oxygen quits givin' in, the lungs and heart stop functionin' and it will stop flowin' to the brain.

no..... that is fundamentally flawed... Like I said - brain is a very complex organ. Brain has 4 major regions (plus Cerebellum and Brain Stem). I think you're confusing brain-dead patient with coma patient. I don't think you fully understand what a brain-dead person means. Brain is incredibly sensitive to damage due to lack of oxygen. If I'm correct - you have about 4-7 minutes to restore the oxygen otherwise.... you'll end up with possibly extensive brain damage which then can lead to severe retardation or inability to perform functions yourself (breathing, eating, etc.) or even death. more than 10 minutes.... well.... you're pretty much brain dead. Necrosis had already started - no miracle can save this poor man.

It's exactly like this - when you're freezing for so long.... you developed frostbite. Further prolongation... your toes/fingers/whatever have already died - it's blackened and hardened. You have to cut it off before you die of infection and septic shock. Miracle? No... miracle will not get you back those toes.

Naw, I take Aleve once in a while when I had a bad headache ( not often when that happens ). My heart is still beatin'. I am NOT dead yet.

????? You're not brain dead... All of your brain regions are functioning properly. Headache doesn't mean you're brain damage or brain dead. In Terry's case, pretty much all of her regions are long dead. In fact - when the autopsy was performed, her brain was much smaller than normal. Her remaining size of the brain was limited to a very primitive function.... enough to perform autonomous tasks. And you're praying for a miracle that she'll come out of it as a normal person????

Don't forget - Terry is not a coma patient like that firefighter. She's a brain-dead patient with no hope of recovery. not even 1%. not even 0.1%. not even 0.001% either. The only miracle is if Aslan breathed a life into her.

 

[jillio]

well he can't exactly have sex with her... that would be necrophilia lol

Bingo! Nor could she engage in any kind of interaction with him, including a simple conversation. Companionship is the very foundation of a marraige.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Yes you're right. This is going to become into something we don't want it to become. I let myself get carried away. So end result: PAS = thumbs up for me!

Think of it this way, if PAS is legal, and you don't like it, you can simply not do it yourself, and you can spit at those who does it. (I prefer if you didnt, but if you must...)

Whereas if PAS was illegal, if you don't like it, too bad, you're gonna suffer if you get terminal illness.

Count me in as another supporter of PAS.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Bingo! Nor could she engage in any kind of interaction with him, including a simple conversation. Companionship is the very foundation of a marraige.

Get this. They made videos of her for long hrs at a time and any movement she made, they said it was purposeful. They edited the videos of her to make it look like she was reponsive. I admit that when I looked at those videos, she looked responsive, but when you stop and think that video evidence can be doctored, then it brings you back to reality.

Reality is PVS patients aren't responsive. Any movement they make is reflexive. I don't think anybody wants to live like that or wants their loved one to live like that.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

no..... that is fundamentally flawed... Like I said - brain is a very complex organ. Brain has 4 major regions (plus Cerebellum and Brain Stem). I think you're confusing brain-dead patient with coma patient. I don't think you fully understand what a brain-dead person means. Brain is incredibly sensitive to damage due to lack of oxygen. If I'm correct - you have about 4-7 minutes to restore the oxygen otherwise.... you'll end up with possibly extensive brain damage which then can lead to severe retardation or inability to perform functions yourself (breathing, eating, etc.) or even death. more than 10 minutes.... well.... you're pretty much brain dead. Necrosis had already started - no miracle can save this poor man.

It's exactly like this - when you're freezing for so long.... you developed frostbite. Further prolongation... your toes/fingers/whatever have already died - it's blackened and hardened. You have to cut it off before you die of infection and septic shock. Miracle? No... miracle will not get you back those toes.



????? You're not brain dead... All of your brain regions are functioning properly. Headache doesn't mean you're brain damage or brain dead. In Terry's case, pretty much all of her regions are long dead. In fact - when the autopsy was performed, her brain was much smaller than normal. Her remaining size of the brain was limited to a very primitive function.... enough to perform autonomous tasks. And you're praying for a miracle that she'll come out of it as a normal person????

Don't forget - Terry is not a coma patient like that firefighter. She's a brain-dead patient with no hope of recovery. not even 1%. not even 0.1%. not even 0.001% either. The only miracle is if Aslan breathed a life into her.

Alot of people just don't get it.

 

[shel90]

Yes you're right. This is going to become into something we don't want it to become. I let myself get carried away. So end result: PAS = thumbs up for me!

Think of it this way, if PAS is legal, and you don't like it, you can simply not do it yourself, and you can spit at those who does it. (I prefer if you didnt, but if you must...)

Whereas if PAS was illegal, if you don't like it, too bad, you're gonna suffer if you get terminal illness.

 

[shel90]

she has no reason to live if everybody she knows is dead. but then... if she just wants to live for herself, cool. good for her.

That was on of my points!

My other point for bringing that question up is that suppose technology advances to the point where people are kept alive beyond their capacity? When do we say this is too long or this is enough?

 

[jillio]

Get this. They made videos of her for long hrs at a time and any movement she made, they said it was purposeful. They edited the videos of her to make it look like she was reponsive. I admit that when I looked at those videos, she looked responsive, but when you stop and think that video evidence can be doctored, then it brings you back to reality.

Reality is PVS patients aren't responsive. Any movement they make is reflexive. I don't think anybody wants to live like that or wants their loved one to live like that.

Oh,yeah. I remember those videos. Attempts by her parents to indicate that she had cognition. But they backfired, and were used to prove exactly the opposite in conjucntion with the medical evidence.

 

[Jiro]

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Oh,yeah. I remember those videos. Attempts by her parents to indicate that she had cognition. But they backfired, and were used to prove exactly the opposite in conjucntion with the medical evidence.

Yeah. They also disobeyed a court order to make those videos.

 

[Hwy99]

Yup I do support it. Imagine how it felt when you suffer with horrible disease and are nearly being death, but you would like to be died already and somehow you have to be stuck and suffering even much more in the hospital because suicide was illegal?

Leave them alone, they suffer enough and deserve this right.

 

[dreama]

No. Such a law can and would be abused. It is the thin end of the wedge. Family can put presure on their relatives to kill themselves. Often the person just need the right support, and to ajust to their condition. When my mum was very ill with cancer she did not want to die. I don't think I would either.

I am ok about giving terminally ill people high doses of pain releaf to reduce suffering, but which often ends up kiling them which is how my grandmother died. But the person in this case is near the end anyway and the aim would be to eliviate suffering, not to cause death. Even if that is likely to happen as a result. I'm also ok of allowing patience to refuse life prologing treatment if they choose to and just take powerful pain relief, but not to withdraw food or water or any life support machine. These are for people who are already dying. I am totally aposed to any life shortening treatment for people who are just disabled and not termanally ill.

It's not so much killing people who are already near to death that I object to, it's passing laws that may be used against people who aren't terminally ill that scare me.

 

[Maria]

Very interestin' to see some ADers ignored my post # 360, on page 12 about a woman who just came out of coma.

 

[Cheri]

she has no reason to live if everybody she knows is dead. but then... if she just wants to live for herself, cool. good for her.

A person who has PVS is dead?

That's like saying "Let's kill her, let's torture her, she can't complain" :roll:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A person who has PVS is dead?

That's like saying "Let's kill her, let's torture her, she can't complain" :roll:

Can you care to explain what abbrevation word "PVS" stand for?

 

[Daredevel7]

Very interestin' to see some ADers ignored my post # 360, on page 12 about a woman who just came out of coma.

Just like you ignored Jiro's post #382?

brain is a very complex organ. Brain has 4 major regions (plus Cerebellum and Brain Stem). I think you're confusing brain-dead patient with coma patient.

We are talking about brain dead here. Do you think coma and brain dead are the same?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Very interestin' to see some ADers ignored my post # 360, on page 12 about a woman who just came out of coma.

Did you read my response post #359 to Angel about the difference between dead-brain patient and coma patient since she brought the issue up over firefighter's 10 years coma yesterday before you posted?

http://www.alldeaf.com/1117636-post359.html

Jiro explained you the difference between dead-brain coma patient and coma patient at his post # 382 after your last post #360. He said the same thing what I said to Angel yesterday. Have you read his post?

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Do you support suicide assistance?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

We are talking about brain dead here. Do you think coma and brain dead are the same?

Unfortunlately the people confuse dead-brain patient with coma patient.

Yes, I aware that they are not the same.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No. Such a law can and would be abused. It is the thin end of the wedge. Family can put presure on their relatives to kill themselves. Often the person just need the right support, and to ajust to their condition. When my mum was very ill with cancer she did not want to die. I don't think I would either.


I am ok about giving terminally ill people high doses of pain releaf to reduce suffering, but which often ends up kiling them which is how my grandmother died. But the person in this case is near the end anyway and the aim would be to eliviate suffering, not to cause death. Even if that is likely to happen as a result. I'm also ok of allowing patience to refuse life prologing treatment if they choose to and just take powerful pain relief, but not to withdraw food or water or any life support machine. These are for people who are already dying. I am totally aposed to any life shortening treatment for people who are just disabled and not termanally ill.

It's not so much killing people who are already near to death that I object to, it's passing laws that may be used against people who aren't terminally ill that scare me.

It's good to respect your mother's wish for not want to die. My MIL was very ill with brain tumor and also do not want to die, too when she was suffered severe pain until she got heavy morphire drugs to reduce her pain... Unfortunlately drugs cause her lung clot to death.

The family cannot put pressure on their relatives unless they have living will to respect ill-terminally patient's wish.

To my POV, I think it's very cruel to give drugs to reduce their suffering...and cause to damage their bodies... and killed at early... I guess that my MIL would stay alive and live with her pain without drugs up to one year or more what the doctors estimated us about but she died within 3 months, not one year or more. We (most relatives) assume/suspect that morphire drugs is the responsible to cause her lung clot...