Diabetic driver talks about incident

[Maria]

Diabetic driver talks about incident
by Jason Kravarik
KSN News

WICHITA, Kansas, Apr 18, 2005 -- A story we’ve been following continues to get emotional reaction from our viewers. It deals with the way police handled a woman who had been driving erratically. Police didn’t know the woman was having a diabetic reaction.

Christina Deleon, 30 has a broken arm, her head is swollen and her eyes are blackened. The question now is, how did she get these injuries? From a traffic accident or from what police did after it.

"I would think from the way that I feel and the way that I look that it was done incorrectly," said Deleon.

The incident began when a motorist reported an erratic driver, spotting the car in oncoming lanes of traffic. When police moved in, they say the woman was awake but unresponsive.

"At one point, she looked over at me, put her foot on the gas and took off through the yard," said Officer Brian Hurley, Wichita Police Department.

When Christina hit a tree, police moved in. The only problem was that she was not responding. Police feared Christina could take off at any moment and decided that she must be removed from the car.

An officer then broke the window and what happened next is the source of controversy.

The officer dragged Christina out of the car and pulled her along the pavement. Christina’s family claims the officer continued to use force evidenced, they say, by his lunging arm.

Christina watched the video the next day on the news.

"I was devastated because I was being plopped around like a rag doll and I could see them take me out of the car and them undoing my seatbelt and I was just limp," said Deleon.

At that point, officers did not know Christina was having a diabetic reaction and was not eluding arrest.

She said she understands police have a dangerous job but doesn’t know how they could react that way without more facts in hand.

"That hopefully they’ll be more attentive and pay more attention to the clues."

Christina believes her injuries were caused by police because her car was not severely damaged in the accident. Police say they wish they had more details but feel they made the right call under the circumstances.

http://ksnw.com/news/stories/7544938.html

What were the cops thinkin' ? Geez whiz.. they beated the heck out of her after pullin' her out of her car, thinkin' that she was drunk. I feel sorry for this woman. There's a video showin' her bruised eyes....

There's another one about this same woman, there's a link below :
Medical incident confused for criminal
http://www.ksn.com/news/stories/7514253.html

 

[VamPyroX]

Yeah, that's why I think it's important for these people to have some kind of label or identification. I have a few friends who wear special bracelets. It has a medical logo stamped on it in red with an important message on the back. These people should have that message so they can respond better.

 

[Maria]

Yeah, that's why I think it's important for these people to have some kind of label or identification. I have a few friends who wear special bracelets. It has a medical logo stamped on it in red with an important message on the back. These people should have that message so they can respond better.

Yeah I am aware of the special bracelets to show what kind of health problems they are havin'...but, the cops should NOT beat her up like that. Geez whiz... she is a woman. That's totally wrong. It affected people emotions when they see the cops beatin' up on an American innocent people.

I am sure there's a way to handle properly instead of beatin' her/him up.

 

[VamPyroX]

Yeah I am aware of the special bracelets to show what kind of health problems they are havin'...but, the cops should NOT beat her up like that. Geez whiz... she is a woman. That's totally wrong. It affected people emotions when they see the cops beatin' up on an American innocent people.

I am sure there's a way to handle properly instead of beatin' her/him up.

You're right. The police shouldn't have done that. Of course, not everyone understands that.

My friend was in a similar situation. He had a diabetic seizure. While in the emergency room, the doctors thought he was on PCP and had the police handcuff him to the cart. His wife tried to tell the doctors and the police that he was having a diabetic seizure, but they didn't listen. Now, they have a reason to sue.

 

[Vance]

Yeah, that's why I think it's important for these people to have some kind of label or identification. I have a few friends who wear special bracelets. It has a medical logo stamped on it in red with an important message on the back. These people should have that message so they can respond better.

I second. But I have to think of their feelings and privacy rights... I mean, they may not want others to know their conditions. Well, I believe this issue will be controversial in Congress someday.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I second. But I have to think of their feelings and privacy rights... I mean, they may not want others to know their conditions. Well, I believe this issue will be controversial in Congress someday.

Erm, sorry. I disagree with you on this. Ordinarily, I would say that yes, everyone is entitled to their right to privacy. But, I believe there are limits to this. Such as when another person's life or well being is likely to be at stake as was the case here.

Many people drive, and a lot of these people also have chronic illnesses that could put them or someone else's life in peril if a crisis arises behind the wheel. I believe it is the responsibility of the person to either wear a medic alert bracelet that states the illness the person has, or the person should be responsible enough not to drive.

I can cite a really good example of this. Myself. I do not drive, because, I have neurological impairments that affect my attention span. Simply put, my mind wanders way too much for me to risk putting my life or that of someone else' in jeopardy. This is my personal choice, though. I admit that.

 

[VamPyroX]

I second. But I have to think of their feelings and privacy rights... I mean, they may not want others to know their conditions. Well, I believe this issue will be controversial in Congress someday.

Yes, everyone has a right to their privacy. However, it's your own life at stake. If I knew I had a health condition, I'd want to make sure that everone else was aware of it. I'd wear a medical bracelet or have a medical identification card in my wallet. The more serious the condition, the more likely I'd want to show it. If I knew I would be prone to having seizures, I would wear a bracelet. If I had a simple condition that's not of any immediate possible threat to anyone else, I'd have it in my wallet. Conditions that I feel are a possible threat to others are frantic seizures. I could hit someone accidentally. I would disobey policemen unintentionally. I could cause physical harm to myself.

 

[Vance]

Erm, sorry. I disagree with you on this. Ordinarily, I would say that yes, everyone is entitled to their right to privacy. But, I believe there are limits to this. Such as when another person's life or well being is likely to be at stake as was the case here.

Many people drive, and a lot of these people also have chronic illnesses that could put them or someone else's life in peril if a crisis arises behind the wheel. I believe it is the responsibility of the person to either wear a medic alert bracelet that states the illness the person has, or the person should be responsible enough not to drive.

I can cite a really good example of this. Myself. I do not drive, because, I have neurological impairments that affect my attention span. Simply put, my mind wanders way too much for me to risk putting my life or that of someone else' in jeopardy. This is my personal choice, though. I admit that.

Yes, everyone has a right to their privacy. However, it's your own life at stake. If I knew I had a health condition, I'd want to make sure that everone else was aware of it. I'd wear a medical bracelet or have a medical identification card in my wallet. The more serious the condition, the more likely I'd want to show it. If I knew I would be prone to having seizures, I would wear a bracelet. If I had a simple condition that's not of any immediate possible threat to anyone else, I'd have it in my wallet. Conditions that I feel are a possible threat to others are frantic seizures. I could hit someone accidentally. I would disobey policemen unintentionally. I could cause physical harm to myself.

Vampy & Oceanbreeze, I agree with you. But I think I was looking in broader way than I should be.

There is one thing that I am concerning about... Insurance companies. You see, if privacy rights about health conditions is no longer 'private'... let's say, our Congress create this bill, "Health bill" which require mandatory reporting to all of human services like firemen, policemen, etc etc... about our health conditions through our driver license, ID, 'health' bracket and other things. It may be good idea or I probably recieve the comment, "so what's your point?". What my biggest concern is that insurance companies may access that too, if they do, there is no doubt that they may refuse to provide their services because of their health conditions which may drain their money? In fact, it happens several times lately.

Like I said, maybe I was looking in broader way than I should be or I probably am paranoid about it.

But I agree with you guys anyway.

 

[Codger]

I have heard of cases of people who were pulled over and given a breathilizer test, then arrested for being drunk. Somehow, their body metabolized... sugar?... I think and gave off an alcohol odor. Maybe they were diabetics, but I don't remember for sure. Anyway, that officer probably did not look for a bracelet, so how would that have helped? Well, MAYBE they would have noticed it when they booked her, or IF they took her for medical care. And they should not have thumped the driver, be it a her or a him. What if he/she had been deaf and did not hear sirens or the officers commands? Heck, an ambulence has to be on my back bumper at full wail before I hear it. Then I have to look around for it. Should deafies not drive? Or be required to wear DHOH I.D. bracelets?

Interesting subject!

And I agree with your perspective on the privacy question Magatsu (sound of people falling out of their chairs across the globe) :P

And the insurance company angle is just one. Perspective employers? Telemarketers and exploiters? Governmink agencies? Healthcare privacy is a hot potato!

 

[Vance]

And I agree with your perspective on the privacy question Magatsu (sound of people falling out of their chairs across the globe) :P

And the insurance company angle is just one. Perspective employers? Telemarketers and exploiters? Governmink agencies? Healthcare privacy is a hot potato!

To my heart which stopped beating: rev' it up, baby!

Ohh... I didn't think about these beside insurance companies. Healthcare is a high marketing value in America.

 

[Codger]

....... Healthcare is a high marketing value in America.

I snagged a quick per capita figure for 2002 individual healthcare... bet you can find something more current and comprehensive?

In the United States, health spending reached $5267 per capita in 2002.

 

[Vance]

I snagged a quick per capita figure for 2002 individual healthcare... bet you can find something more current and comprehensive?

In the United States, health spending reached $5267 per capita in 2002.

Yessir. Here it is: the United States will spend $6,200 per capita on healthcare this year (2004)

I will see if I can find more information about our healthcare.

Edit: Duh me, that site have the link which linked to other site that offer the comprehensive informations. Here, here and here.

There may will be more on the way.

 

[Vance]

Ah, here it is:

Those in the lowest-fifth income level (up to $6,720 per capita family income), who spend 32% of their income, despite Medicaid coverage for some, compared with those in the top tier, who pay less than 9%;

Source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/411678 (registration required)

 

[Codger]

Then there is big bucks to be made off of confidential health information. I know. I just paid $1785 for a twentyfive minute ambulence ride, over $8,000 for an overnight stay in CICU, with a heart catheterization, then anothe $8,000 for another overnighter for gall bladder surgery.


"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." --Bill Clinton, President
"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president." --Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents.

 

[Taylor]

I hope folks don't mind a different perspective on this

One thing to keep in mind is that they don't know what is wrong with her. Officers are talking to her and she speeds off (although not aware of it) and hits a tree. The officers see this as either an attempt to get away or even an attempt on their own lives...it is common for people trying to get away to attempt to run over officers. Look at the video again. You'll notice that the car is still in gear and attempting to go forward, evidenced by the movement of the rear of the car....her tires aren't spinning but if you've ever tried to drive with your parking brake you'll feel the rear of your car squat down. Something similar happens to her car which means her foot is probably still on the gas when they pull her out....only it was a tree stopping her and not a parking brake. You'll also see an officer jump in her car to secure it.

I'm not defending the actions of the officers because I wasn't there, but they have absolutely no way of knowing what they are dealing with. I have seen first hand similar things done by drivers. It could be they are high on drugs, they could be drunk, they could be wanted and ignoring the officers and want to get away.....or it could be a medical emergency. There is no way of knowing.

Very recently, our department was in a similar situation. Driver is all over the road and officer attempts to stop it. Car doesn't stop but continues driving at about 30mph. There is another officer coming from the opposite direction to assist and the driver rams his patrol car. Everything comes to a stop for a moment and the car is surrounded. The driver then hits the gas but cannot go anywhere because of the patrol car he has struck. Tires are spinning and there is smoke everywhere. Officers are yelling for him to stop and he doesn't even look at them. Officer breaks a window and they pull driver out.

Very similar to what occured in the video. Was our driver having a diabetic emergency? No, he was so high on PCP, he had no clue as to what was taking place. In his car, was $2,000 in cash and about $5,000 worth of drugs. The car had also been stolen from his girlfriends mother...whom he beat up pretty bad when he stole her car.

My point being is there really is no way to know.

There was some discussion here in Maryland a few years ago about even letting people who could have seizures or could go into diabetic shock from even getting their licenses. This discussion came about because of a string of fatal accidents involving diabetics who had gone into shock or were having seizures and killed innocent people. Some could question if they should even be driving. It is difficult, however, when they are not a normal occurance. I do recall one of the drivers a fatal accident hadn't had any problems for something like 10 years. How was he supposed to know he would have a problem on that day.

Codger, you bring up an excellent point. It is something I have only seen first hand once in my life. We got a call about a driver that was sitting in a car and appeared to be drunk. We get there, the driver does appear to be intoxicated. Slurred speech, not fully aware of what is going on but is talking..eyes glazed over....what got me the most was the actual smell of alcohol in the vehicle and on the drivers breath. It wasn't a drunk driver but a diabetic having an emergency..

We are trained to handle these things, however when its a driver who has almost run you over and is ignoring your requests to stop....it is difficult to make that assessment.

With everything I have said above, I don't agree with the officers action of punching her the way he did. Unfortunately the bushes are in the way. If she was laying face down and her hands were under her, he may have thought she was reaching for a weapon. Again, I can't say for sure since I wasn't there, but I don't see her fighting back or resisting physically.

Here is a recent news story about drivers and medical conditions

 

[Codger]

Thanks Taylor! I was hoping you would weigh in on this one and give us some perspective from the LE side. Yes, I can certainly see how the officers might have felt threatened. And I know adrenalin plays a part in how far they go in forcing compliance once they have their hands on a suspect. Do you agree with my point of a medical I.D. making no difference in a case like this?

Also, I know that you are more aware of deaf drivers than the average bear ( ), but how would the average officer handle the situation where a driver does not hear either a siren or commands over a loudspeaker, but continues driving in a reasonable manner (not attempting to flee, but ignoring them)? Daytime scenario I guess since I would definately see the blue lights filling my car if it were night.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Vampy & Oceanbreeze, I agree with you. But I think I was looking in broader way than I should be.

There is one thing that I am concerning about... Insurance companies. You see, if privacy rights about health conditions is no longer 'private'... let's say, our Congress create this bill, "Health bill" which require mandatory reporting to all of human services like firemen, policemen, etc etc... about our health conditions through our driver license, ID, 'health' bracket and other things. It may be good idea or I probably recieve the comment, "so what's your point?". What my biggest concern is that insurance companies may access that too, if they do, there is no doubt that they may refuse to provide their services because of their health conditions which may drain their money? In fact, it happens several times lately.

Like I said, maybe I was looking in broader way than I should be or I probably am paranoid about it.

But I agree with you guys anyway.

I see your point. You're right to be concerned. I can't imagine anyone wanting their medical history divuldged to someone without their consent. That would be an absolute nightmare in the making!

 

[Taylor]

Thanks Taylor! I was hoping you would weigh in on this one and give us some perspective from the LE side. Yes, I can certainly see how the officers might have felt threatened. And I know adrenalin plays a part in how far they go in forcing compliance once they have their hands on a suspect. Do you agree with my point of a medical I.D. making no difference in a case like this?

Also, I know that you are more aware of deaf drivers than the average bear ( ), but how would the average officer handle the situation where a driver does not hear either a siren or commands over a loudspeaker, but continues driving in a reasonable manner (not attempting to flee, but ignoring them)? Daytime scenario I guess since I would definately see the blue lights filling my car if it were night.

I do agree that in this case, a medical alert bracelet would have made no difference. It probably would not have been visible until she was to be handcuffed. It is one thing if a person is laying on the ground versus trying to get somebody out of a moving vehicle. The officer would not have seen a bracelet.

In reference to your deaf question and not pulling over. In most cases, they will follow behind the driver. At some point another cruiser would probably pull up beside you. The key to this is that you are not making an effort to get away. I've seen it more with elderly people where they do not realize they are being stopped and continue to drive the speed limit (with the blinker they've left on.....sorry bad joke ) An officer will not view this as attempting to get away, however, if he is trying to pull you over for doing 80mph and you continue to do 80, that may be seen as an attempted get away.
Just remember that when you finally do stop, the officer may be somewhat confused as to what you were doing. Roll your window down, turn on your light (if at night) and put your hands in the '10 and 2' position on your steering wheel. Don't go poking around your car for your registration or anything else.....signal to him/her that you are deaf.


One scenario that comes to mind is unmarked police cars. On occasion, you'll get some yahoo who decides to put a blue light in his car and attempt to pull women over (seems to happen around DC a lot). We tell people that if an 'unmarked' car is trying to stop you and you don't believe it is an officer, you can turn on your interior light and drive the speed limit to a well lit area or public place (such as convenience stores). If you have a cell phone, a call to 911 doesn't hurt while this is happening. Officers will understand what is taking place and won't consider it a 'chase'. Keep in mind that this isn't an excuse to just keep moving from the police and don't take my advice as such. But if a scruffy guy driving a beat up honda has a blue light in his car and you don't feel right, you can do the above.