Designing A Hearing Baby

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Maria said:
Yeah, but where's the baby's rights to make the decisions on his/her own, not parents' ? I feel that the parents don't love deaf babies by changin' them to become hearing babies - I mean, how come they don't ACCEPT " deaf " the way the baby was born with ? I believe in NATURAL. When the baby understands the words or comprehend things around the baby as she/he gets older, then the parents can INTRODUCE this CI to her/him and ask questions about it."

Here we go again.......

Briefly, virtually every civilized society has recognized the rights of parents to make decisions on behalf of their children. Case law and common law in our judicial system has long recognized the fact that, with certain few exceptions, parents have the right to make decisions on behalf of their children by virtue of the very fact that they are children and cannot make mature and rational decisions. The law recognizes that parents will usually attempt to make decisions that are in the best interests of their children.

A cochlear implant does not change a child what it does is give them the opportunity to hear sounds that they are not able to hear because of their hearing loss. If you think that parents who have opted to give their children cochlear implants do not love their children then you are both ignorant and sadly mistaken and take that from a parent of a child who has a cochlear implant.

I and others who have chosen the implant for their children understand and accept the fact that our children are deaf and will always be deaf even after they have received their cochlear implants. What we do not accept is that there is only one way to raise a deaf child nor that there is anything wrong with giving a deaf child the opportunity to hear sounds and if possible understand speech.

You say being deaf is natural, well here is a question for you: my child was born hearing but lost her hearing at the age of 10 months due to meningitis. So what is "natural" for her? To be deaf or to be given the opportunity to hear the sounds that she was born being able to hear? Go ahead and answer that question.

As for waiting, the preponderence of research, studies and personal observations have clearly demonstrated that sooner a child is implanted after the onset of deafness the greater the probability of success with a cochlear implant. So your "wait until the child is older" argument is actually not in the best interest.

Finally, what I love the most about your position, and it is not new as it has been trotted out and disproven for almost 20 years, is the hypocrisy of your position. You only "care" about the child's rights when a parent chooses to implant their child but you have no concern whatsoever about the rights of a child whose parent chooses not to implant their child. Suddenly, you no longer "care" whether that child's rights have been violated. That is because unlike us parents, whose only concern is to act in the best interests of our children, you have an agenda.

Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. If you support a parent's right to choose NOT to implant their child then you must support a parent's right to implant their child.
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deafdyke said:
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Oh and Cloggy, what the heck does preverbal behavoiors have to do with talking? The preverbal behavoirs and vocalizations, simply indicate that there's no apraxia present. Apraxia is VERY common in dhh kids. Also early babbling is important, but the appearance of it, doesn't automaticly mean that later spoken language will not be a problem.
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So, deaf children will go through a babbling etc. phase as well.?

Doesn't the babbling indicate that the child can hear. Doesn't it indicate that it is excersizing the voice, using the feedback from sound to modify the way it makes sound. Doesn't the child try to imitate the sounds around it.

Are you telling me that this is not a prelude to talking, to speech.?
Do you really think that a child will go from not hearing to talking without going through these fases...?? Do you really think these phases are not needed for any child - hearing - to master speech.?
 
So, deaf children will go through a babbling etc. phase as well.?
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Actually, YES. Dhh babies will start babbling, at the appropreate time but will stop when they don't get any aural feedback. That is a very well known fact.


Doesn't the babbling indicate that the child can hear. Doesn't it indicate that it is excersizing the voice, using the feedback from sound to modify the way it makes sound. Doesn't the child try to imitate the sounds around it.
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No, it just means that their oral motor skills are good to go. Babbling issues MAY signal a nereological problem. And as a matter of fact, a lot of times this nereological speech and language problem is seen in cases where there's no hearing loss whatsoever!
Are you telling me that this is not a prelude to talking, to speech.?
Do you really think that a child will go from not hearing to talking without going through these fases...?? Do you really think these phases are not needed for any child - hearing - to master speech.?
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Yes, I am telling you that. I can't really explain why since I'm not a speech therapist.
 
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/44798-see-s-perfect-example.html Thats the original one topic that had locked up as you see why. I m so fed up to destroy my hardwork effort as usual by them.. Perfect example that I couldnt do anything or speak it out for a very good reason that I have a very strong true inner soul that tells me it s something not right at all.

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/30218-education-history-milan-1880-a.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/30213-ropes-wrath.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/44798-see-s-perfect-example.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/30211-why-am-i-angry.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-languag...ed-me-overcome-hearing-loss-great-extent.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-educati...ion-identity-mainstreaming-dr-paddy-ladd.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/30212-why-speech-isnt-great.html



http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...6-evidence-being-deaf-hearing-aid-device.html Many posts were removed to cover up their buns that is something to hide by AUDISM people. ONE THING is that I would like to have this topic Deafness with hearing aid devicek, cochlear implant and various sign langauges by LINUXGOLD back in here. There is no reason for moderator to remove the whole topic Deafness with hearing aid device, cochlear implant and various sign languages. was very good one that shows the evidence that Deaf people can do anything without devices until BEAST666 posted the big picture of CRASHED TRAINS all over place in the end of the page in that topic. It s a very big disappointment in me that I had to prove them wrong about Deaf people's natural abilities and adaptations that is very important to us. I m so fed up Audism people intended to put Deaf children with no devices behind their back and showed CI deaf children are better than Deaf children with no devices as in my own eye witnesses in the classroom of Family Education. That turns me off what I have seen it clearly, my stomach turned out and makes me wanna to puke at this kind of Hearing and Deaf's audist attitude.

It seems that they put Deaf people with non voices or non devices on the last black list and destroy us and our ASL all along. I dont understand this anymore. You know what I feel like I can slap their faces hard in front of VIP people in the classroom at the same time before so I had to leave with my own gain anger for what they treat Deaf children like that by their own negative audist attitude about our natural abilities and adaptation by their own teachers of the Deaf.

Good thing, I have all copies of my hottest topic that they cannot take it away from me. It s a very good example that Audism people love to thumb Deaf people like me down onto the ground and stuck us in there. It s always "the overlapping on Deaf people s true expression feelings" that has not been solved the issues for many years.

So people can check it out every topics in my file that I had replied in a very honest approach for a very good reason from the bottom of my heart that brings me back up here.. So I did my effort of being hardwork to show many EVIDENCES in Deaf lives of the Deaf community.

Have a wonderful day ;) and So Long!

Sweetmind
 
WOW Sweetmind -
So much information....
All your ideas, feelings, views of the world, on d/Deafness....

You should have your own website and spread the word!!! This messageboard is too small for you... And - they lock all your topics.
Here, you are censored...

People really do not understand you. None of them... (OK - there are some exceptions..)

"Tell the parents I said, "Help your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of resposibility to give the child all the possibilities life can give" - Definitely not Harlan Lane
 
Cloggy said:
It has allready been done. Years ago by 2 lesbian Deaf woman in Canada I believe.
So, nothing new there... Go ahead J.
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This is also for Rick. I need to be more specific about this because I saw it elsewhere: Here's the scenario: HEARING parents of deaf children get the CI for their child. Someone was wondering out loud this one: Why can't DEAF parents who have HEARING children make their children deaf?

This is interesting in itself but I am asking if it would even be legal?
 
Tousi said:
I'm still wondering if that would be legal. I have the feeling it would NOT be, tho...but I'd still like to know...
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I'm not an attorney, but I am fairly certain that this would legally fall into the category of abuse and endangerment.
 
jillio said:
I'm not an attorney, but I am fairly certain that this would legally fall into the category of abuse and endangerment.
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Ooops, ya beat me to it, lol. But the irony of this doesn't escape certain deaf people.
This is definitely something that I wouldn't do, tho.
 
Tousi said:
This is also for Rick. I need to be more specific about this because I saw it elsewhere: Here's the scenario: HEARING parents of deaf children get the CI for their child. Someone was wondering out loud this one: Why can't DEAF parents who have HEARING children make their children deaf?

This is interesting in itself but I am asking if it would even be legal?
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Why would you want to give your child less opportunities...??? Removing a sense, as opposed to providing one...
My daughter is deaf. She can hear with the CI. We gave her that possibility. My daughter can still learn signlanguage, get into Deaf culture if she wants...

And in contrast... you think destroying a sense would make sense.
Why.??
Do you need to be deaf in order to sign?
Do you need to be deaf in order to "get" Deaf culture...

Or, is the idea that in the future your child might be able to hear and speak, not depending on sign-language too confronting for you?
 
Gemma said:
Interesting question! although I had to admit that I was a bit disappointed when I found out that my kids are not deaf...
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Its my understanding that deaf parents who have hearing children go through the same kind of adjustment as a hearing parent who has a deaf child, but not tot he same degree. The deaf parent has already had contact with the hearing world, and therefore might feel disappointment, but they don't see havign a child that is a bit different from themselves as a tradgedy. Hearing parents of deaf children, on the other hand, quite oftren have never been exposed to deafness prior to their own child's diagnosis, and it is a tragic experience for them. They don't just see their deaf child as a bit different from themselves, but they immediately begin to focus on what they see as all the limitations that child will face. Of course, most of those limitations have nothing to do with reality, but because they know nothing of deafness or what deaf inidviduals are cpable of, all they see at first are the negatives.
 
Cloggy said:
Why would you want to give your child less opportunities...??? Removing a sense, as opposed to providing one...
My daughter is deaf. She can hear with the CI. We gave her that possibility. My daughter can still learn signlanguage, get into Deaf culture if she wants...

And in contrast... you think destroying a sense would make sense.
Why.??
Do you need to be deaf in order to sign?
Do you need to be deaf in order to "get" Deaf culture...

Or, is the idea that in the future your child might be able to hear and speak, not depending on sign-language too confronting for you?
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The "you" interspersed throughout your response, I take it, doesn't specifically refer to me....or does it? I just threw it out there cuz I heard it elsewhere and I don't think much of it as a rallying cry for those so adamantly against the CI.
 
Tousi said:
The "you" interspersed throughout your response, I take it, doesn't specifically refer to me....or does it? I just threw it out there cuz I heard it elsewhere and I don't think much of it as a rallying cry for those so adamantly against the CI.
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I know... so "you" is not you. It's the "you" that brings on such statements...
C U
 
jillio said:
Gee, thanks for your permission, c.
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That's OK. I knew you were waiting for it.
Now, go out, and make a new deaf child.!

Now, when this is done.. would you consider CI.. for your deaf child or will you let your child grow up Deaf again.?
 
deafskeptic said:
Well said, R2D2. I've been on record as saying I support CIs in babies but if evidence supports later implantation rather than early implantation, then I'll revise my opinion. I came to support this in babies rather recultantly.

If I ever implant any child of mine, I'd want that child to be in a bi-bi program as I refuse to take a risk with my child's language skills.
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:gpost:

We seem to go a bit off track when we discuss CI. CI was never intended to do anything more than provide a degree of auditory perception. It is about creating hearing, not speech. Unfortunately, too often it is assumed that simply because a degree of hearing has been established, oral communication will follow. That is a false assumption.
 
rick48 said:
Why not make yourself deaf that way you will then be able to experience firsthand what your son is experiencing.
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Gee, rick, I could offer the same suggestion to you. Why don't you make yourself deaf, get a CI, and then try to live in an oral environment 24/7 and then you will know what your daughter experiences firsthand?
 
rick48 said:
Re-asking my question from the closed thread: How are the parents making their hearing child deaf?
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The same way a parent tries to make their child hearing...through surgical intervention and lingustic restrictions.
 
Cloggy said:
It has allready been done. Years ago by 2 lesbian Deaf woman in Canada I believe.
So, nothing new there... Go ahead J.
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Ahhh......cloggy, that is a different situation altogether. That was using genetic manipulation to conceive a child that was born deaf and permitted to stay that way. They did not take a child born hearing and subject that child to a surgical procedure to create deafness in the child. Nor did they take a child born deaf and subject that child to a surgical procedure to create hearing. They made a choice regarding the status of that child's hearing prior to birth; they did not attempt to alter what they were given because it didn't suit them or fit into their expectations after birth.
 
Tousi said:
Ooops, ya beat me to it, lol. But the irony of this doesn't escape certain deaf people.
This is definitely something that I wouldn't do, tho.
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But it certainly seems to escape many of the hearing people!
 
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