Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

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Lantana said:
Loml you deserve an Oscar! (Hands waving)! How have you been? Miss you!

I find it humorous that Jello, (oops, Jillio) finds the need to parrot the stuff she digs out of her "vast researches". She is not kidding any of us.

And since this forum is made up of mostly deaf persons, it would be to Jillio's advantage to leave out most of the one million dollar borrowed words. We can all smell a giant inferiority complex (and a phony) a forum away!

Chuckle,

Lantana
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Lanatana,

Nice to see you! I am doing well and I trust you and yours are all thriving!

:) loml
 
loml said:
jillio - I said theoretically, did you miss that word?
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And, one cannot be considered a Ph.D. candidate until one has been accepted into a Ph.D. program, loml. So your theory is inncacurate. Simply placing "theoretically" in front of your statement does not make it correct.

Do you, or do you not, have anything productive to add to the topic?
 
Instead of belittling again, how about addressing points that have been made.
 
Lantana said:
Loml you deserve an Oscar! (Hands waving)! How have you been? Miss you!

I find it humorous that Jello, (oops, Jillio) finds the need to parrot the stuff she digs out of her "vast researches". She is not kidding any of us.

And since this forum is made up of mostly deaf persons, it would be to Jillio's advantage to leave out most of the one million dollar borrowed words. We can all smell a giant inferiority complex (and a phony) a forum away!

Chuckle,

Lantana
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She is attempting quite an acting job at being a well informed person, but to date, her performance has not been convincing enough to be Oscar worthy.

Do you have anything to add to the topic, or are you just here to join the ill informed mob? Its amazing how those will remains silent until they think they have a gang behind them so support them. Quite courageous!
 
owen06 said:
Instead of belittling again, how about addressing points that have been made.
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Loml has failed to make any points, nor have you,that are directly related to the topic. And since none of the three of you have been able to add anything productive tothe topic, the obvious answer is, you don't have anything to add to the topic. If you wish to pat each other onthe back for your ability to join the bandwagon, I suggest you start a new thread to do so. You are seriously disrespecting the OP.
 
Lantana said:
Loml you deserve an Oscar! (Hands waving)! How have you been? Miss you!

I find it humorous that Jello, (oops, Jillio) finds the need to parrot the stuff she digs out of her "vast researches". She is not kidding any of us.

And since this forum is made up of mostly deaf persons, it would be to Jillio's advantage to leave out most of the one million dollar borrowed words. We can all smell a giant inferiority complex (and a phony) a forum away!

Chuckle,

Lantana
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Are you insiniating that deafies can't read large words? How insulting.
 
Perhaps the strongest support for English or another home language being L1 for a deaf child relates to the difficulty some hearing parents experience in trying to learn a new language (e.g., ASL). A number of concerns have been expressed about the ability of hearing parents to develop ASL competency sufficiently during the critical language-learning (pre-school) years to serve as appropriate language models for deaf children. Representative of these concerns are those of Kemp (1998), Vernon and Daigle (1994) and Strong (1988). Vernon and Daigle assert that hearing parents "will never be ASL models, enabling thier deaf children to absorb ASL in the same way hearing children pick up English from their hearing parent models" (p.124). Strong states that if hearing parents are not fluent with ASL prior to the birth of their child, "make it highly inlikely that the parents will succees in providing a good language model for their children." Strong concurs with Cornett (1991) that in order for deaf children to realize their linguistic potential, deaf children "need consistent language input" (p. 103).
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LaSasso, C.J., & Metzger, M.A. (1998). An alternate route for preparing deaf children for bibi programs: The home language as L1 and cued speech for conveying traditionally spoken languages. Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, 3, 265-289.

If the child is not getting adequate language input, even if the parents try to learn ASL, they are going to experience delays. Any second language for a adult is difficult. Fluency can take years. In order for ASL to be effective according to one study parents need to have "moderate" fluency in ASL. Since it can be difficult to learn a language as an adult and by taking time to learn it they also take the time to allow possible language delays, I can see this as a very valid reason why parents choose not to use sign.

Please stop trying to twist everything anyone who disagrees with you says. You are just trying to get people riled. Stick to the debate, and stop belittling/trying to inflame/etc.
 
owen06 said:
LaSasso, C.J., & Metzger, M.A. (1998). An alternate route for preparing deaf children for bibi programs: The home language as L1 and cued speech for conveying traditionally spoken languages. Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, 3, 265-289.

If the child is not getting adequate language input, even if the parents try to learn ASL, they are going to experience delays. Any second language for a adult is difficult. Fluency can take years. In order for ASL to be effective according to one study parents need to have "moderate" fluency in ASL. Since it can be difficult to learn a language as an adult and by taking time to learn it they also take the time to allow possible language delays, I can see this as a very valid reason why parents choose not to use sign.

Please stop trying to twist everything anyone who disagrees with you says. You are just trying to get people riled. Stick to the debate, and stop belittling/trying to inflame/etc.
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And if the parent uses ASL from the time of diagnosis, given the fact that mandatory testing is now done at birth on all infants, they have sufficient time to develop fluency to the level that is required to communicate with their child. Even minimal input is preferable to no input at all. The cause of language delays is no input. The question is not what is difficult for the adult. It is the adult's responsibility to accept that difficulty. The question is, what is the most beneficial for the child. And to date, a great preponderance of the research indicates that the children who perform at the highest levels socially, phsychologically, and educationally, are those exposed to sign and speech.

And if anyone has tried to inflame, my dear owen06, it is you. Shall I direct you back to your first post in this thread?

And despite the fact that you have posted some research, you still have not addressed the question in the OP. Why do hearing parents refuse to learn sign language? Any thoughts on the topic?
 
jillio said:
Incorrect. I consider myself to be a member of the community. I was accepted by proxy a long time ago. And I have been more than willing to expose my own son to Deaf Culture, and in fact, celebrate it. CI is a topic that affects the Deaf Community, and deaf children. As an advocate for those deaf children, it is my obligation to dispell the myths that the oralists continue to propogate that are doingharm to the well being of deaf children as holistic beings.
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Your advocacy has not been too effective as more and more children are getting implants each and everyday.
 
rick48 said:
Your advocacy has not been too effective as more and more children are getting implants each and everyday.
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I don't advocate against implants. I advocate for the educational needs of deaf children, as well as the liguistic needs. Has absolutely nothing to do with CI. Now, would you like to share the reasons that you have not learned sign langauge for your deaf child? Stick to the topic. I know its hard, but surely you can do it if you try.
 
loml said:
jillio - I have shared my experiences, you discount them. I share research, you try to discount it. I am not going to repost information that is already on here and has already been discussed. There is a search option available for you on this board, I suggest you use it.
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loml,

Remember, give a man a fish....

Rick
 
jillio said:
And if the parent uses ASL from the time of diagnosis, given the fact that mandatory testing is now done at birth on all infants, they have sufficient time to develop fluency to the level that is required to communicate with their child. Even minimal input is preferable to no input at all. The cause of language delays is no input. The question is not what is difficult for the adult. It is the adult's responsibility to accept that difficulty. The question is, what is the most beneficial for the child. And to date, a great preponderance of the research indicates that the children who perform at the highest levels socially, phsychologically, and educationally, are those exposed to sign and speech.

And if anyone has tried to inflame, my dear owen06, it is you. Shall I direct you back to your first post in this thread?

And despite the fact that you have posted some research, you still have not addressed the question in the OP. Why do hearing parents refuse to learn sign language? Any thoughts on the topic?
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What is most beneficial to the child is having an accuarate model of language, something that a hearing parent has great difficulty with if they are trying to do so while trying to learn that very same language. Parents do not refuse it, there are hearing parents on this forum who have readily shared their experiences with regards to signing with their children. I am not saying that sign does not benefit. I'm saying that there is no benefit from it if the child cannot recieve an accurate portrayal.

Oh, and my dear jillio, my first post was humor used to make a point. It's sad that you are unable to see that (even when it is spelled out).
 
owen06 said:
What is most beneficial to the child is having an accuarate model of language, something that a hearing parent has great difficulty with if they are trying to do so while trying to learn that very same language. Parents do not refuse it, there are hearing parents on this forum who have readily shared their experiences with regards to signing with their children. I am not saying that sign does not benefit. I'm saying that there is no benefit from it if the child cannot recieve an accurate portrayal.

Oh, and my dear jillio, my first post was humor used to make a point. It's sad that you are unable to see that (even when it is spelled out).
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And you are incorrect in that. There are studies that indicate that a child who is provided a less than accurrate model will surpass the parent's proficiency. I have posted such previously. No need to reiterate.

And, perhaps you haven't read the numerous posts of the deaf on this forum whose parents have, indeed, refused to learn sign language.

I am not the only one that failed to recognize the humor in your post.

Here is your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio
Still not an adequate explanation to indicate that you have synthesized knowledge and can apply it appropriately. You are still parroting what you have been told. Sorry, still not a passing grade.

Instead of trying to discredit the person, try reading to whole paper for a change. The information provided answered all of your questions. In fact, it is often better to read the research rather than take someone's word for it. Since you claim to be so educated, perhaps it would be beneficial to read the information and maybe point out using the research provided and your own massive stores, where loml is mistaken regarding the posts about cued speech.

Please indicate which portion you consider to be humorous.

And now, back on topic.
 
hmmm...interesting. I guess no one wanted to speak up. The people who did-flip specifically--said they thought it was entertaining.

Ahhh...the bolded portion was not my first post in the topic. The part you have bolded was not meant to be humour. That was a statement of how you like to request that other people support their beliefs/experiences/opinions and when they do you discredit them. When you are asked to do the same you refuse. I don't see the need to explain further.
 
See my edited reply to your edited post. The portion you have bolded is not my first post in the thread
 
owen06 said:
What is most beneficial to the child is having an accuarate model of language, something that a hearing parent has great difficulty with if they are trying to do so while trying to learn that very same language. Parents do not refuse it, there are hearing parents on this forum who have readily shared their experiences with regards to signing with their children. I am not saying that sign does not benefit. I'm saying that there is no benefit from it if the child cannot recieve an accurate portrayal.

Oh, and my dear jillio, my first post was humor used to make a point. It's sad that you are unable to see that (even when it is spelled out).
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Owen,

Correct, too often, as in this case, jillio attempts to mire the discussion in bogus semantical arguments. Parents who choose to provide their children with an oral environment that is most beneficial to their child are not "refusing" a manual language. They have made a choice, simple as that.

One can cite studies till they are blue in the face but for parents it is not studies that are relevent but what is best for their child.

In our case, we did not follow an AVT course of therapy as our daughter has always had very strong lip reading abilities and we felt that AVT would not allow her to utilize those skills to her fullest potential. We have friends who are staunch AVT advocates and for their children it has worked wonders but that just proves my point: that each child is unique and what is best for one child is not necessarily the best choice for someone else's child.

Rick
 
Lantana said:
Loml you deserve an Oscar! (Hands waving)! How have you been? Miss you!

I find it humorous that Jello, (oops, Jillio) finds the need to parrot the stuff she digs out of her "vast researches". She is not kidding any of us.

And since this forum is made up of mostly deaf persons, it would be to Jillio's advantage to leave out most of the one million dollar borrowed words. We can all smell a giant inferiority complex (and a phony) a forum away!

Chuckle,

Lantana
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LOL

Lantana,

Don't know about the Oscar but loml definitely deserves a medal for displaying amazing patience!
Rick
 
owen06 said:
I will have something to add to this topic when it turns into a debate rather than a bashing, belittling thread. If this forum is any sort of a representation of Deaf culture I don't blame parents for not learning sign. I wouldn't want to expose my child to the belittling here.
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I never meant for this to be a "bashing, belittling thread" Perhaps you would rather it be deleted?

Lantana said:
I find it humorous that Jello, (oops, Jillio) finds the need to parrot the stuff she digs out of her "vast researches". She is not kidding any of us.

Lantana, have you really resorted to name calling? How elementary...
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I find it amusing that some oralists here accuse this thread for representing the deaf culture, while it's only hearing people left in the bashing in the lasts posts here. If all hearing people was thrown out of the deaf community, we would have less stupid threads like this. (Holly and Jillio, please don't take this personal, but I am so fed up with those hearing people showing a great depedency on AD while they insult deaf people). What's wrong with the moderators here?
 
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