Comparing CI with HA's

shel90 said:
Well, my brother tried to learn how to use his voice and read lips but his mind couldnt grasp the concept of spoken language during the first 5 years of his life. He had intensive speech/lipreading therapy daily just like I did. At the time he wasnt involved with the deaf community nor was exposed to ASL so I am happy he got to learn ASL before he became more delayed in language. ASL opened the world for him. I dont think at 5 years old, he was worried about being ostracized. He just wanted to be able to express his thoughts and feelings which he couldnt through spoken language.

My whole point is if the CI or spoken language is not working for the deaf child, expose the child to sign language before the child gets too old and is severly delayed in language development. That is all I care about.
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Which is why I have advocated both spoken and ASL if implanted with a CI when very young. At least there is a tool for the child either way. Years ago, I wouldn't have recognize this fact but now I do.

I know for myself I was one of the fortunate ones that had a good handle on spoken language from the start. This is still considering the fact I had speech therapy until middle school.
 
R2D2 said:
Good points Shel. I agree with you. Whether spoken or ASL, getting language for that child in the first few years is very important for development. That's why if I have a deaf child I hope to do both at least in the early years.

I grew up in a mainstream program and while I did well with it I saw other kids at my school that didn't (this was before the days of CIs) and I often wondered why the teachers persisted in teaching them orally when they would have been better off signing.

By the way Shel is there any research out there that shows that signing does not cause delay to the development of spoken language? I would be interested because when I was growing up I can remember people making that argument a lot.
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Oh gosh, I will have to search through my old files from my grad school at Gallaudet. I hope I didnt throw them away. It has been 5 years but I took a class in language acquistion and the professor showed one study about this theory. *racking my brains here*

Before that class, I had the belief that sign language would prevent the child from aquiring spoken language.

Also I am seeing some (very few) students at my school who are starting to show interest in using their voices and in speech classes and they had been students at the school since they were babies. I remember when they were in PreK, they did go to speech classes but didnt work out so they relied on ASL solely and now they are older, they are using their voices a lot more. Their teacher who is hearing have said that they now cant keep their mouths shut during class! Ha! We believe that the students are entering the critical thinking or abstract thinking stage and they are realizing that there is a meaning using spoken English and are curious about it.

Of course, the school is taking the opportunity of their motivation to learn spoken language by increasing their hours in speech classes. We would never prevent a child from learning spoken language if they show interests in. Where I work at is now incorporting spoken English in classes to meet the children with CI's needs.
 
sr171soars said:
Which is why I have advocated both spoken and ASL if implanted with a CI when very young. At least there is a tool for the child either way. Years ago, I wouldn't have recognize this fact but now I do.

I know for myself I was one of the fortunate ones that had a good handle on spoken language from the start. This is still considering the fact I had speech therapy until middle school.
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I consider myself lucky that I loved to read because it helped with my reading and writing skills. I was always so lost in my classes growing up and looking back, how did I learn? Did I miss out on a lot of information? I just remember having to ask my classmates which page we were on and relying on notes or outlines that the teacher created for the class. If I had a teacher who didnt provide an outline or notes for us, I would have drowned in that class. I got by..but that thought scares me cuz if I didnt like reading, would I be delayed in academically? Who knows?
 
shel90 said:
I consider myself lucky that I loved to read because it helped with my reading and writing skills. I was always so lost in my classes growing up and looking back, how did I learn? Did I miss out on a lot of information? I just remember having to ask my classmates which page we were on and relying on notes or outlines that the teacher created for the class. If I had a teacher who didnt provide an outline or notes for us, I would have drowned in that class. I got by..but that thought scares me cuz if I didnt like reading, would I be delayed in academically? Who knows?
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Yea, that was probably the main reason I survived being mainstreamed beyond the fact that I could function in the hearing world with spoken language. There were times that I "lost" in class but I had enough wits to figure out what was going on. I never said it was easy but it was worth it all at the end.
 
sr171soars said:
Yea, that was probably the main reason I survived being mainstreamed beyond the fact that I could function in the hearing world with spoken language. There were times that I "lost" in class but I had enough wits to figure out what was going on. I never said it was easy but it was worth it all at the end.
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U said there were times that u were "lost" in class? Like daily or once in a while? It was a daily thing for me which is why I wonder how did I learn or understand the material being taught. I wish I can remember but it is all a blur.

Did you have time spent with a deaf ed teacher? Everyday for one hour, I had to leave class to go to "resource" class with my deaf ed teacher. I still cant even remember what we did during the whole hour.
 
Getting off-topic, but that's OK. Enjoying the discussion here.....

Shel90,

Can you comment on my question previously.. here.?
So for the students that you have, would it be fair to say they got their CI pre-lingually, and at a later age??
 
shel90 said:
Both..there are about 20 something students with CIs who got transferred to my school in the last 2 years due to not "succeeding" in the oral program. I dont know all of their information. Would be interesting to see if they are post-lingual or pre-lingual.


Maybe that is the case with children with CIs...some will benefit from them and some wont.
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Cloggy..already answered your question in this post. :) I will ask about those students when we return to work.
 
Cloggy said:
Getting off-topic, but that's OK. Enjoying the discussion here.....

Shel90,

Can you comment on my question previously.. here.?
So for the students that you have, would it be fair to say they got their CI pre-lingually, and at a later age??
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I was thinking the same thing about going off topic. For me, I cant compare HAs and CIs cuz I dont have a CI. I did think about getting one but I have to follow my heart which tells me that it is not the right decision for me as of now.
 
shel90 said:
U said there were times that u were "lost" in class? Like daily or once in a while? It was a daily thing for me which is why I wonder how did I learn or understand the material being taught. I wish I can remember but it is all a blur.

Did you have time spent with a deaf ed teacher? Everyday for one hour, I had to leave class to go to "resource" class with my deaf ed teacher. I still cant even remember what we did during the whole hour.
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Speaking for myself I had a weekly visit from a peripetic teacher and also at my school there was a unit for deaf children, although I didn't spend any time there. Educationally I was mostly okay - I hated music lessons but the peripetic teacher helped me get out of them. I got a good grade of education due to the good support.

I think the hardest thing about mainstreaming is definitely the social aspect. Even though your language may be good you miss the nuances and quick interaction that hearing children have. Even though there were deaf children at my school they were in different years and I didn't get on with them personality wise except for a couple of older deaf girls. My mother almost sent me to Mary Hare, which is a deaf residential grammar school in the UK with a good reputation and I often wonder if I would have been happier there. I also found the same thing at university, where most of my friends were either mature students or others who didn't really fit in.

I did get deaf friends as I got older though, some good and some bad. I also have really good hearing friends who I really love and click with. I have other issues that I need to relate with others and most of these are going to be hearing people.

So even though it was hard I sort of look back on it as a thing that shaped my personality and made me who I am today. It wouldn't be right for everyone though - we are all different.
 
I did not know that!! But the fact that current CI cannot make bass sounds does make sense.
 
shel90 said:
I was thinking the same thing about going off topic. For me, I cant compare HAs and CIs cuz I dont have a CI. .......
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Off-topic is often a good place to be. Part of "brainstorming."
But your comment about comparing the two is not completely true. Of course you can compare them, just like I (hearing father of a deaf child) can.
We use our own perspectives, and in a messageboard like this we learn.
I believe that your perspective is very important, since you are really close to those hearing children / students. Your observations are very valuable since they come from a special perspective.

(And sorry about asking the question again. )
 
Cloggy said:
Off-topic is often a good place to be. Part of "brainstorming."
But your comment about comparing the two is not completely true. Of course you can compare them, just like I (hearing father of a deaf child) can.
We use our own perspectives, and in a messageboard like this we learn.
I believe that your perspective is very important, since you are really close to those hearing children / students. Your observations are very valuable since they come from a special perspective.

(And sorry about asking the question again. )
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I dont work with hearing students so what did u mean by I am close with them? I work with deaf/HOH students who have HAs, CIs, bone conduction HAs, and ones who dont use any listening devices. I grew up with hearing kids, yes. :)
 
shel90 said:
I dont work with hearing students so what did u mean by I am close with them? I work with deaf/HOH students who have HAs, CIs, bone conduction HAs, and ones who dont use any listening devices. I grew up with hearing kids, yes. :)
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My typo. I realise that you work with deaf children, HENCE the importance of your input.
 
shel90 said:
U said there were times that u were "lost" in class? Like daily or once in a while? It was a daily thing for me which is why I wonder how did I learn or understand the material being taught. I wish I can remember but it is all a blur.
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Er...I meant once in a while. Meaning if I wasn't clued in to what was going on I would be scrambling to to figure where I needed to be. Overall, I didn't have much trouble as I could hear well enough. Understanding the subject matter and getting good grades wasn't much of problem.

shel90 said:
Did you have time spent with a deaf ed teacher? Everyday for one hour, I had to leave class to go to "resource" class with my deaf ed teacher. I still cant even remember what we did during the whole hour.
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No, I never had one. I only had a speech therapy round once or twice a week until middle school.

R2D2 said:
I think the hardest thing about mainstreaming is definitely the social aspect. Even though your language may be good you miss the nuances and quick interaction that hearing children have....
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Totally agree with you R2D2 about that. It wasn't until I went to college that I caught up my book knowledge with the common lingo stuff (cultural knowledge).
 
sr171soars said:
Er...I meant once in a while. Meaning if I wasn't clued in to what was going on I would be scrambling to to figure where I needed to be. Overall, I didn't have much trouble as I could hear well enough. Understanding the subject matter and getting good grades wasn't much of problem.

I couldnt hear very well and had no interpreter so everyday in the class I had to use a lot of tricks just to keep up. Looking back, that is not healthy cuz I was unable to participate in debates or discussions due to falling behind on the discussions.

No, I never had one. I only had a speech therapy round once or twice a week until middle school.



Totally agree with you R2D2 about that. It wasn't until I went to college that I caught up my book knowledge with the common lingo stuff (cultural knowledge).
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Same here..I agree with R2D2...
 
shel90 said:
I couldnt hear very well and had no interpreter so everyday in the class I had to use a lot of tricks just to keep up. Looking back, that is not healthy cuz I was unable to participate in debates or discussions due to falling behind on the discussions.
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You are so right...that it wasn't healthy for you in those circumstances. Comparatively speaking...I had it "easy". But I will say that nobody escapes from getting some scars in life just trying to adapt and cope with the hearing world. Like I said earlier, I finally caught up in my early twenties...twenty blinkin' years just to get on an even playing field.

You know what is really interesting...getting my CI changed everything for me in that respect. It truly leveled the playing field as never before in my life and in ways I never thought possible.
 
Cloggy, here's a link that might be able to help you understand that the hearing that we aided and implanted folks hear, isn't nessarily the same as what a hearing person hears. It's about sight.....a blind guy who had an operation to restore his sight, but it's NOT AT ALL what sighted people think of when they think of seeing. http://www.oliversacks.com/osnew/ows/bookpages/mars/exrptmars.htm
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy, here's a link that might be able to help you understand that the hearing that we aided and implanted folks hear, isn't nessarily the same as what a hearing person hears. It's about sight.....a blind guy who had an operation to restore his sight, but it's NOT AT ALL what sighted people think of when they think of seeing. http://www.oliversacks.com/osnew/ows/bookpages/mars/exrptmars.htm
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Know the story, saw the film, will have a look at the link...
C U later
 
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