cochlear implants

[Tousi]

I am thoroughly, intensely, and quite feebly resisting making any comment in this thread.

Other than this one, of course.

Let's hope Endy gets real feeble and DOES comment because he owes it to justice!
:P

 

[ayala920]

Let's hope Endy gets real feeble and DOES comment because he owes it to justice!
:P

Agreed. I've been waiting to hear his comments on this.

 

[loml]

The single biggest obstacle a deaf child faces in his/her infant years, when the parents are hearing and do not know any sort of visual-based language, Eyeth, would be acquiring language by learning it as it is expressed (spoken or signed).

Absolutely true!

A deaf child of hearing parents can learn the language of their family, for example English, via cueing.

There is no vocalizing in a description of CS because cueing is a totally visual, phonological activity. HANDSHAPE, LOCATION, MOUTHSHAPE simultaneously.

Cueing accesses the same languages that speech accesses: the ordinary, day to day, face to face communication that people around the globe take part in when they speak to each other. That’s where the speech comes from in Cued Speech. People who hear generally vocalize out of habit, while they cue, but the Deaf don’t vocalize when they cue to each other, and neither do the hearing -- in a library or theatre or across a crowded room

 

[deafdyke]

Rather, I never really had a need to and still don't. I don't parade as if I better or something.

Guess I am psyicic....I do remember reading in Train Go Sorry, that really bright deaf students were supposed to assimulate into the hearing world. Oral education was the norm, back when you were going to school right? They really pushed assimluation.... I gotta say I really really like your attitude, and wish that more oralists had your attitude. Maybe then, we could bridge the gap between those with oral skills and those who are Signers. I have to say I understand (but don't condone) the mentality of the Deaf seperatists....for a long long time those with oral skills REALLY looked down on poor little dysfunctional Deafies. That mentality is still around, especially with hardcore AG Bell types.
Besides, this phenonomoen isn't exclusive to Deaf culture at ALL...I have black friends who are attacked for acting too white and so on......

Sweetmind, IYIYYIYIYIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you attacking us at EVERY single oppertunity? Why are you so pro-ASL only? All most of us are saying is that it's helpful for deaf kids to have SOME oral abilty.....and we do think that the oral abilty can be aquiired in a nonaudist way.

 

[highlands]

I have taken many ASL classes but am not able to retain it because I don't have the opportunity to use it. This is why I am trying to meet some adult deaf friends in my area. I am finding that it is not so easy to do. I have joined many deaf sites and have only met two deaf people in my state and they are even to far away to hang out with or attend social events with. It is my priority to learn as much about the deaf culture as I can and make some new good friends that are deaf. Hopefully we can help each other out in some way. If your love is deaf, and she knows ASL, why not take some asl classes. I have found a pretty good site that I try to use to keep up on my ASL. It's called http://www.aslpro.com check it out.

Thank you
I added the site to my favorites list

 

[rockdrummer]

Thank you
I added the site to my favorites list

You are welcome and I wish you all the best! On the topic of this discussion, It's amazing to me to see there is clearly an underlying issue here that goes way beyond the discussion of CI's. I see this by the tangent the discussion gets off on.

I learn more about this deaf culture every day. What I am comming to realize is that even within the deaf culture there are many view points and opinions. Just like there are in the hearing world on contraversioal subjects.

One thing I have learned is that I have to be paitent with deaf folks and I hope they can be patient with me as well.

 

[Sweetmind]

This is a WAKE UP CALL....

Now this is the whole point that I have seen so much. People who are legally deaf have to worship the hearing world. It doesnt make any sense anymore since we deafies made a lot of accomplishment in many ways. You know what I am seeing - no one appreciates you and your deafness. For all those years deafies have not had our rights to freedom.

You know what I am seeing? No one is appreciating you and your deafness all those years that deafies are not getting our rights to freedom with ADA. All I am all eyes that tells me we all are not happy for who we are from the start. People are willing to pay all that money for Medical expenses that relates our deafness after all that attitude. I dont understand this anymore. That is giving me a real creepy feeling around me. So what's the point for us since we are not getting anywhere to become a Hearing person. Thats Deaf reality!

Now I am not working after I lost my job for no reason. At that time I worked two full time jobs from sunday afternoon through Friday am. I was not a permanent job at that time of hiring. So I took the risk and deal with a new job. I took a big step that by moved into other state. Meanwhile I worked two jobs. I always accepted many overtime hours on one job. That's my way of being a hardworking person that I enjoy. Also I never missed out on working days except 1 1/2 days that I decided to take it day off for a very good reason before I lost my first job.

So After I lost my job and decided to leave other job because I dont feel comfortable or happy where I was at. I moved back home and stayed with my children for a while until i find a place to live. So I cannot work. After all I have my reasons. As you know it s none of anyone's business.

Okay, I still dont have a health insurance for myself especially when I am an older woman. I do really need it bad to make sure I am okay. Now I am still suffering from all that pains and hassle to find a way to get health insurance. It isnt easy for me to deal with all those people. That is a very tough situation for me. I can see the system we have is giving me very mixed messages. I think it's so cruel because I am very eligble for it as of I know. They just give me a hard time - many, many times. There's something wrong out there. Now I am considering hiring a lawyer to get that fricky straight up with those people who gave me a hard time. Again, I have to pay for what I did not deserve this kind of attitude. Sighs!

One thing that bothers me. Why do I have to pay all those medical expenses that relates to my deafness or your deafness? They want us to conform and pay for it. I am not that stupid to destroy myself because people with audist attitude who said so meanwhile they have so much prejudice. They want it to be totally against yourself and/or your own will and a d/Deaf children's will as well.

Guess what!!! I do not have a problem with being deaf. If somone else does, then thats their problem. So therefore I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY anything that relates my deafness. PERIOD!!!

So it gives me the impression that while some see deafness as a handicap others do not. This means to me that it's a choice. Is that okay??

Keep in your thoughts that I am a natural Deaf person with no HA. I took the risk and cost me money for what? Why should I prove that I am successful as an artificial hearing person? NO thank you! I made my succcess in many ways that helps me to be a very strong person as much as I can. It wasn't even easy for me to do it alone but I DID IT. Oh well it s your choice to make it miserable and put yourself and your money into a very unreasonable attitude. I don't agree with you all the way. I am very sorry I couldnt do this to myself and their d/Deaf children. It s very painful to see this.

I strive all the way all those years without your help and try not to give it up after all I relapsed often! It wasnt my fault for having so many relapses. Thanks! My mom couldnt believe how many times that I bounced back on the ground again quickly. It wasnt easy for me but I did it.

I do not need your sympathy but think twice before your action goes down into the drain and feel your sympathy for d/Deaf children s rights to freedom in their future that we are hurting them the most. Sighs!

Have a good evening!

Sweetmind

 

[deafdyke]

I learn more about this deaf culture every day. What I am comming to realize is that even within the deaf culture there are many view points and opinions

Yes, not all of us Deaf Cultured folks are extremists......Just like any other social movement (eg feminism, civil rights) there's ALL SORTS of different thinking about how to acheive equality due to a difference.

One thing that bothers me. Why do I have to pay all those medical expenses that relates to my deafness or your deafness? They want us to conform and pay for it

Sweetmind.....first of all, just b/c a person happens to enjoy being a part of the hearing world, it doesn't mean that they are anti-Deaf. I enjoy sound, but I don't enjoy sound the way a hearing person experiances it....I experiance it the way a dhh experiances sound. I like sound....I like being a part of the hearing world. I will never ever BE 100% a part of the hearing world, but I like to experiance it.
That's a excellent point about the high medical costs of deafness.....that's something that a lot of pro oralists gloss over. Even hearing and healthy folks have trouble paying for health insurance and stuff like that.

 

[me_punctured]

Sweetmind, I'm genuinely impressed at how you almost always end your posts with a "Thank you" or "Have a good evening." (Unless you're enraged and aghast, that's another story...)

:topic:

 

[me_punctured]

Absolutely true!

A deaf child of hearing parents can learn the language of their family, for example English, via cueing.

There is no vocalizing in a description of CS because cueing is a totally visual, phonological activity. HANDSHAPE, LOCATION, MOUTHSHAPE simultaneously.

Cueing accesses the same languages that speech accesses: the ordinary, day to day, face to face communication that people around the globe take part in when they speak to each other. That’s where the speech comes from in Cued Speech. People who hear generally vocalize out of habit, while they cue, but the Deaf don’t vocalize when they cue to each other, and neither do the hearing -- in a library or theatre or across a crowded room

Wow. This is the first time I have heard cued speech mentioned in a long time. Did you grow up using CS? It is not a well-known phenomenon on the West Coast, with the scarcity of knowledge, resources, and support networks here, but it is on the East Coast, to the best of my knowledge. One of my best childhood friends was proficient in CS. I used to communicate with him by CS, even though my proficiency wasn't up to his par. He moved to Maryland, though, because there is a huge community of CS users there and his family wanted more support for him.

 

[Sweetmind]

first of all, just b/c a person happens to enjoy being a part of the hearing world, it doesn't mean that they are anti-Deaf. I enjoy sound, but I don't enjoy sound the way a hearing person experiances it....I experiance it the way a dhh experiances sound. I like sound....I like being a part of the hearing world. I will never ever BE 100% a part of the hearing world, but I like to experiance it.

???????????? Is that what u are you telling me that I enjoy in hearing community? Oh hell YESSSS!!! Is that what you are telling me that I enjoy in a hearing world? HECK NO!!

You love the sound which is good for you..I dont give a damn anymore. Mind you, after all I got all those damaged in my right ear for NOTHING. MIND YOU! After all their own prejudices, I was forced to wear it and make them think that I can or am functionally hearing with my fricky hearing aid device as they saw it all my life. MIND YOU! Audist attitude people lied to themselves and to the innocent and ignorance parents for the MONEY reasons. Sound is the noise pollution as well . I dont agree with you after all they robbed my life all those years with my whole family, friends, workers, and many others.

Of course I will never ever be part of the hearing community but I will always be the one part of a diversity world. If you dont mind. You just dont get it.

Excuse me, I have been challenged so many things that they are using their excuses to manipulate me all those years. SCOFFS!!!

OH YEEESSS!! they do have a huge prejudice . oppression, and Discrimination against our term of "D E A F" It is the worst thing we are dealing with all kind of cultures that relates DEAF by audist attitude who thinks they can take over our Deaf community and push me and many deafies out between Deaf and Hearing communities in every countries in this diversity world. We are on the border line as usual that we were struggling both sides that they couldnt face the reality or acceptance our deafness by these audist attitude people If you mind.

Deaf minority is the worst more than any of hearing minorities in this society that is the problem of their audist attitude all along.

I refused to give any favors for their sake after all I did my job AND I am still getting no two way streets. SCOFFS!!!!

So what are you trying to prove me?? HUH !!! Go and kiss their arses while they dont treat you equally or respect you for who you are.

Whats more deafies with HA or CI devies turns the volume all the way UP to the sky so whats that supposed to be? I think it s outrageous going on in here. They are not functionally hearing that is a proven already.

Sighs! I dont have to prove anything that I must be a functionally hearing and be a hearing person?? Thats a very bigotry remark.

You think I am too isolated to stay in Deaf community. I find this is a big joke of yours. I have meet many hearing people with a good attitude who comes into Deaf community that shows their respect us and our hands to communitcate with. MIND YOU!

YOU DONT GET IT ! Someday you might or might not get the light blub!

ALSO, I like to say it aloud. I am a single mother of two hearing daughters for 17 years that i raised them on my own. Guess what audist attitude people did to my chlidren.. They screwed my daughters because I am a FRICKY DEAF mother. MIND YOU! They did not have any respect for me as a mother with my TWO children that I love very much.


Sighs!

Sweetmind

 

[Sweetmind]

Wow. This is the first time I have heard cued speech mentioned in a long time. Did you grow up using CS? It is not a well-known phenomenon on the West Coast, with the scarcity of knowledge, resources, and support networks here, but it is on the East Coast, to the best of my knowledge. One of my best childhood friends was proficient in CS. I used to communicate with him by CS, even though my proficiency wasn't up to his par. He moved to Maryland, though, because there is a huge community of CS users there and his family wanted more support for him.

LOML is a hearing person. Whats that supposed to be wow?? some deafies converts from Cued speech to ASL after school.. Please find a book that you need to read it. There is a NO WOW and true language.. it s related to ORAL method. sighs!

For heaven s sake!

 

[me_punctured]

LOML is a hearing person. Whats that supposed to be wow?? some deafies converts from Cued speech to ASL after school.. Please find a book that you need to read it. There is a NO WOW and true language.. it s related to ORAL method. sighs!

For heaven s sake!

No, Sweetmind, I wasn't saying "WOW" in regards to the method of CS, but because I have not heard about it in a long time. Clear? And I didn't know LOML is hearing. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Sweetmind]

Okay! My apologize for having a different thinking from yours. I learned something new after I got it. ! me_punctured

 

[Sweetmind]

Sweetmind, I'm genuinely impressed at how you almost always end your posts with a "Thank you" or "Have a good evening." (Unless you're enraged and aghast, that's another story...)

How interesting to read this quote! First of all, you all know I am not a great English written. Right?? I know I am a good writer about deaf issues in many ways because I am getting more trusts and confidence in myself as being deaf that I learned to educate myself and from true experiences by me or deafies, whoever I meet. All I did the best I can express in my writings. There is nothing I can do that makes you mad or upset by my writings. That's only way I can reach out than have to lock it up inside my heart for people s sake. NO more for me!. Whats more! I am very sensitive to any issues because it ticks me off and dont like their feelings.

I did the best I could use my heart to follow and listen from my true inner soul comes out that I could express myself freely without worrying about how people thinks of "all kind of emotional feelings" in my writings. I rather to say it that comes out from the bottom of my heart than have to fix those words to make you happy. I cannot do this anymore because I was too passive all those years for nothing meanwhile I couldnt able to speak it out for myself when I was a young child. and hate myself for being deaf.

My dad kept after my arse and reminded me to say Thank you to people whoever give me something to eat or drink or money all the time. I feel appreciated that I am able to share with you guys. My dad was always take me everywhere he went. I love it and to meet people when I was a child. I am very close to my dad as always. We have a very special bond and love while we did not have a great communication together that ticks me off. Even my mom, too. Even my dear grandmother (died at age 102) Even though my 4 brothers (youngest brother died at age 42) and 3 sisters included me. Thats what it breaks my heart for not having a huge chance to have a good communication with my family that I love very much. It is toooo limitation. I dont think it s quite reasonable for audist attitude people did those d/Deaf children s loss of lifetime to be continue. Is it?? I hope not.

I always have respect in myself so I can give my respect others, no matter what! Thats my intention to say nicely in the end. I never stopped to do my signature however sometimes I dont say at all.

I have a feeling too as you know. It s not coming from an artificial hearing person.

Have a good am! I better to get myself to get some sleep into my warm comfortable bed.

Sweetmind

 

[Passivist]

CI's

I never cease to be amazed, at the American 'Deaf' obsession against CI's. The UK dumped this a while ago, and usually we follow not lead the USA on important issues. Opposition is dead here to CI's, after futile ranting and very over-the-top silly campaigns full of misinformation, they lost the debate. Now most accept it is the right of the individual or, those legally responsible to them (As it always was), I would have thought the land of the 'free' would have respected this at day one ? Othjer 'breaking news' is that Audism and 'Deafie are also two words the UK do not support. In the UK we are tired of these attempts to attack everyone who doesn't agree with or does not belong to this 'deaf culture'. We in the UK are using free choice, we may join, we may NOT, we may have a CI, we may NOT, we may use oralism we may not etc. What we are not going to accept is the deaf activist telling us, or ludricously insisting THEY know best..

 

[rockdrummer]

Now most accept it is the right of the individual or, those legally responsible to them (As it always was), I would have thought the land of the 'free' would have respected this at day one ?

We in the UK are using free choice, we may join, we may NOT, we may have a CI, we may NOT, we may use oralism we may not etc.

Passivist. This point of view is something that I completely missed being caught up in the debate. You are absolutely correct. I (and others) served the United States Military, during conflict, so that we (as Americans) can enjoy our freedom to choose. This country stands for freedom. That freedom takes many forms. It's my freedom to choose as much as it is the freedom of the activist to voice their views and perhaps affect the choices of others. Every soul in this country is free to make choices. The last thing I want is someone trampling on my right to choose. Don't take your freedom for granite. I am glad that there are activist out there because in my opinion, they create a balance that gives me a point of view that I may have not considered. Can you imagine there are countries where this discussion would not even be allowed... We are truly fortunate to live in freedom.. God bless America and God bless freedom.

 

[deafdyke]

was forced to wear it and make them think that I can or am functionally hearing with my fricky hearing aid device

I undy that.....I hate how that mentality equates hoh with mostly hearing. Us hoh folks are just as Deaf as we are Hearing!

You think I am too isolated to stay in Deaf community.

Ummm no I don't. I can and do undy Deaf seperatism. I think almost ANYONE who has constantly repeated themselves to someone who can't undy what they are orally saying, can undy that. That said, you had/have the choice to use your oral skills. You don't b/c you don't find them helpful. That is good....for you. Many folks with oral skills DO find their oral abilty helpful....and they SHOULD have that choice. Let's not throw the hearing aids out with the bathwater

 

[Passivist]

CI's

I'm as deaf as you can ever be, with zero ratings in either ear, I got tired of being told I wasn't, by people in the deaf community who actually COULD hear, it all seemed so stupid and eltitist to me. Time and again we read 'CI's enforced on deaf people', 'CI's are the death of the deaf community' etc, never in any implant in the UK (I cannot speak for America), was there ever a case, where a deaf person was forced to have one, our laws don't allow it.

For those who decide at the age of legal consent they don't want to use their CI, the off swich is there as it always was, for those who would rather not hear anything. I read one individual who had attended a deaf school and felt ostracised because others shunned them (The signers), I suspect HERE is where the battles really are, deaf people who user assistance via aids or CI's/BAHA's are being made to feel guilty and suffering lack of social interaction by some spitefult Deaf, who shun them, that is the worst of it, social inter-action is all as we know, and using that as a 'wea[on' to prolong cultural aspiration, is one suer way of encouraging others to stay well clear.

For any minority language/culture to survive, it needs to assimilate and bend with the respective winds, total opposition will kill it. You need people on-side not in opposition, especially those who share the common base, i.e. deafness. You cannot afford to isolate them, they are in fact the deaf majority,and will only take so much....

Without a unity of purpose and acceptance we will be on opposing sides. A martyrdom doesn't suit everyone.

 

[sr171soars]

Guess I am psyicic....I do remember reading in Train Go Sorry, that really bright deaf students were supposed to assimulate into the hearing world. Oral education was the norm, back when you were going to school right? They really pushed assimluation....

Yep, that was what they hoped for me. I was just one among the several that it was thought that could do it. It is interesting for me to look back at my life and see all the twists and turns it took to where I'm now. Seriously though, I will admit that it was not easy to persevere. While I did have a mother that "pushed" me, it really came down to my inner drive and desire to want to follow the assimilation "dream". The hardest part was to recognize when I achieved my goals (and limits) and then accept and enjoy the fruits of one's labors. This is probably the hardest aspect of assimilating into hearing society (how close I'm to the "ideal" standard?). It isn't just a problem in this regard only but also in anything one is trying to achieve in life as well.

I will say that it took me a long time to understand not everybody (HOH deaf) could do this. This is why I'm now leaning on a more balanced approach (one size doen't fit all). I think where it gets real difficult is figuring out who can and in the meanwhile provide a variety of tools for them so they can find their own niche. No two people are alike...