cochlear implants

[rockdrummer]

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Bearing in mind with the following quote:



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Now please stick to the topic for which this thread is concerned with--


~RR

AMEN BROTHER!!!

 

[Eve]

I would like to state for the record that my previous comment regarding the label "audist" was in no way to be misconstrued as "bashing" (nor did my statement have anything to do with one's grasp of the english language). Au contraire, it was a statement based solely upon FACTS in evidence. I (and many others) have been called an "audist" so many times, regardless of the fact that I sign proficiently, simply because I do not always agree with every single statement made by one individual (who shall hereafter remain nameless). When a black person continually cries "racist", it is referred to as them "playing the race card", so in this instance, I guess we should say one is "playing the deaf card"? Personally, I am tired of this "deafer than thou" mentality. You're deaf, I'm deaf, my dog's deaf, we're all deaf. Get over it! Just because my husband and I choose to live in a hearing world, lip-read, speak (and yes, use ASL), wear hearing aids, consider a cochlear implant, does not mean that we are any less deaf, nor does it indicate that we are "audists". Furthermore, we should all be afforded any opportunities to expand our basis of communication in whatever means we see fit.

 

[deafdyke]

Eve, Agreed.....totally agreed. Just b/c someone chooses to use their oral skills, it does not make them audist. I'd have to say that the only audist folks are those who absolutly refuse to consider ASL as an option and who look down on it b/c it is "speshal needs"......

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I dont know what that thread here? I thought we are talking about CI...????????

Remember, everyone entitle their opinion differently. No reason to bash members because they have different opinion as us.

 

[Angel]

:back to what this thread is about:


I don't feel quite comfortable seeing babies being implanted , it's kind of scary because they're soo little and I don't believe that the CI is for everyone but I do believe that parents have the right to choose whether they want to implant their babies/children with CI or not...As I can decide for my own children as well, and CI isn't my first choice as a mother....

 

[deafdyke]

I don't feel quite comfortable seeing babies being implanted , it's kind of scary because they're soo little and I don't believe that the CI is for everyone but I do believe that parents have the right to choose whether they want to implant their babies/children with CI or not...

Angel, what if the baby had a condition that was known NOT to respond well to being aided? There is a condition called auditory nereopathy where hearing aids don't work, but CIs do. In that case I AM OK with implantation......but I still think that qualifying for CI should be VERY VERY strict for babies. It's just VERY VERY difficult to tell accurately how well a baby hears. Even with the ABR testing!

 

[Angel]

Angel, what if the baby had a condition that was known NOT to respond well to being aided? There is a condition called auditory nereopathy where hearing aids don't work, but CIs do. In that case I AM OK with implantation......but I still think that qualifying for CI should be VERY VERY strict for babies. It's just VERY VERY difficult to tell accurately how well a baby hears. Even with the ABR testing!

There's just no way of telling whether the baby will be able to hear with the use of hearing aids, and beside I think it's difficult to tell how well the baby could hear, I think it should be put on hold until they're really sure the child would need CI implants, like I said CI isn't for everyone...I strongly feel that babies are quite too little to be implant...

 

[Cloggy]

It is obvious that we both look at the CI issue for young children from different perspectives. You look at it from a speech development standpoint, whereas I look at it as a language development standpoint. What's the point of having a Deaf CI child speaking perfectly and not really knowing what he/she is saying, like a parrot?

Hence my question about a Deaf child of Deaf parents; More likely than not, from a language development standpoint, they usually outperform their Deaf peers, even those who have undergone the CI regimen.

I guess we can agree to disagree. The CI regimen, when intended for infants, should be geared towards language development as spoken in the family home. The natural consequence is, most hearing families do not know SL, and couple that with favorable CI results for implanted infants, is that these Deaf children acquire language skills they will need later in life. This wasn't true 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. It seems to be happening right now, thanks to the ever-increasing state of the art speech processor technology.

I apologize that I don't make the distinction between "speech development" and "language development". Our/my focus is communication and you have to agree that you cannot communicate with a parrot.
Actually, I feel that we agree....

I do not know about the performance of deaf children of deaf parents. The only example I saw was in "Sound or/or Fury??" - forgot the title - where deaf parents were shown a deaf child of deaf parents that at later age had CI. Her pronounciation was very bad. In the same film, the hearing child of deaf parents explained that she learned to talk with the articulation of a deaf person, and that it took a lot of time to speak normally.

I'm not saying that good speech cannot be achieved in a deaf environment, I'm saying that ideally you want to be in the environment where they use the communication you want to learn.

I didn't get your example on the outperforming in speech... Care to explain?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

:back to what this thread is about:


I don't feel quite comfortable seeing babies being implanted , it's kind of scary because they're soo little and I don't believe that the CI is for everyone but I do believe that parents have the right to choose whether they want to implant their babies/children with CI or not...As I can decide for my own children as well, and CI isn't my first choice as a mother....

There's just no way of telling whether the baby will be able to hear with the use of hearing aids, and beside I think it's difficult to tell how well the baby could hear, I think it should be put on hold until they're really sure the child would need CI implants, like I said CI isn't for everyone...I strongly feel that babies are quite too little to be implant...

I´m agree that it´s every parent´s decision what they want for their children but to me, I as mother would not do that... I rather to leave my child to have his/her choice either he/she wants CI or not. I as mother think it´s too scare to implant baby with CI.

I rather want to show my respect on my children and fulfil their wishes what I can instead of do what I want for my children... I would be happy to support my child if she/she want to have CI...

If I found out my child is deaf then I would search more cons and pros about CI for preparation case my child is old enough to understand what she/he will ask me for my support to CI. I would not implant my child immediately but give me time to communicate with my child... until my child is absolultely sure either she/he really want to have CI.

 

[Cloggy]

Responsibility

I´m agree that it´s every parent´s decision what they want for their children but to me, I as mother would not do that... I rather to leave my child to have his/her choice either he/she wants CI or not. I as mother think it´s too scare to implant baby with CI.

I rather want to show my respect on my children and fulfil their wishes what I can instead of do what I want for my children... I would be happy to support my child if she/she want to have CI...

If I found out my child is deaf then I would search more cons and pros about CI for preparation case my child is old enough to understand what she/he will ask me for my support to CI. I would not implant my child immediately but give me time to communicate with my child... until my child is absolultely sure either she/he really want to have CI.

This would mean you would sacrifice the best possible result with CI for your childs ability to choose. Because learning to hear and from there on to speak is natural for a toddler, but difficult for a teenager that has lived without sound and speech.

I'm saying this because even though I am all for letting the child decide itself, in this case I feel that the parent should take responsibility and make the decision. Saying the child has to make the decision is saying that you do not want the responsibility of the decision, and that's not what parents are for.

There are other reasons for making the decision not to get CI for your child, but do not use the "child has to choose itself" argument.

Is it fair to the child at later age that he/she has to make that decision? And what kind of decision is it. When the choice is NO, that's fine, but when the choice is YES, then 15 years are lost.

 

[highlands]

This would mean you would sacrifice the best possible result with CI for your childs ability to choose. Because learning to hear and from there on to speak is natural for a toddler, but difficult for a teenager that has lived without sound and speech.

I'm saying this because even though I am all for letting the child decide itself, in this case I feel that the parent should take responsibility and make the decision. Saying the child has to make the decision is saying that you do not want the responsibility of the decision, and that's not what parents are for.

There are other reasons for making the decision not to get CI for your child, but do not use the "child has to choose itself" argument.

Is it fair to the child at later age that he/she has to make that decision? And what kind of decision is it. When the choice is NO, that's fine, but when the choice is YES, then 15 years are lost.

A child has little time to learn spoken language.. so implantation must be done in an early age .. If we chose to do this later then it wouldn't get good result.. So it's best to let child have CI as early as possible then leave the choice him/her at a later age.. After she/he learn spoken language and sign language she/he may choose the best for her/him..

Personally, If I have a deaf child and there is now way of help other than CI then I would choose CI without hesitating and I would teach him/her both spoken and sign languages together.

 

[Cloggy]

..................
Personally, If I have a deaf child and there is now way of help other than CI then I would choose CI without hesitating and I would teach him/her both spoken and sign languages together.

A good point - "other than CI" because we thought about it as well. Stam-cell to grow haircells etc. will possibly a possibility in the future, but speech (by hearing) needs to be developed NOW. So waiting for medical technology to be able to grow haircells would take a long time. By then learing is more difficult plus the auditory nerve has by that time been un-used for such a long time that that will also affect the outcome.
For us, the technology was CI, and so we decided for her that this will be her way.

Mind you, everyone in our family is hearing, friends are hearing, so in our view it would be in her best interet to be hearing as well.
The picture is getting different when you grow up in a Deaf culture.

 

[highlands]

Mind you, everyone in our family is hearing, friends are hearing, so in our view it would be in her best interet to be hearing as well.
The picture is getting different when you grow up in a Deaf culture.

My family is also hearing except for my dad who is hoh like me..
Yes, the complete deaf people consider this issue different than hoh and hearing people.. As a hoh , I was raised in hearing environment, learned speech,and around age 11 my loss appeared,it was slight in the beginning but now I have severe to profound loss and am more close to being deaf..(I'm 31)

I do believe that you did your best for your child with CI .. It's the best possible medical solution ever , for those who cannot benefit HA and other assists.

As far as I see, some complete deaf persons are afraid of losing deaf culture due to CI.. In their opinions, CIs are like laser guns to kill deaf culture..

 

[Cloggy]

......As far as I see, some complete deaf persons are afraid of losing deaf culture due to CI.. In their opinions, CIs are like laser guns to kill deaf culture..

And I can see why. In Norway, where I live, the discussion is allready starting about having fewer and fewer deaf people.

Everyone is offered CI, and since most deaf children are born from hearing parents, it's obvious that more and more will choose for CI, hence, less people that cannot hear.
Rights for deaf people are still very strong, but when the group becomes really small, it might prove difficult to get your rights.

Having read quite a lot about deaf culture, and seeing the resistance in messageboards, I carefully conclude that in many cases the reason that Deaf people are so against CI is not the wellfare of the child, but the wellfare of Deaf community.

But then, I am hearing, so my view on Deaf society is through a very blurred window, but as a parent I cannot imagine that you would not want your child to hear.
Sure, deafness doesn't mean you cannot live a perfectly full life, I see that around me, but hearing/sounds is a big part of life. Why would you deny that to your children? CODA's show that it's no problem to hear AND be part of Deaf culture.

I feel that the resistance of Deaf culture is doing them more harm than good. They should find a way to integrate people that choose for CI in Deaf culture, but with the way the CI-borgs are treated now, who would do that.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

This would mean you would sacrifice the best possible result with CI for your childs ability to choose. Because learning to hear and from there on to speak is natural for a toddler, but difficult for a teenager that has lived without sound and speech.

I'm saying this because even though I am all for letting the child decide itself, in this case I feel that the parent should take responsibility and make the decision. Saying the child has to make the decision is saying that you do not want the responsibility of the decision, and that's not what parents are for.

There are other reasons for making the decision not to get CI for your child, but do not use the "child has to choose itself" argument.

Is it fair to the child at later age that he/she has to make that decision? And what kind of decision is it. When the choice is NO, that's fine, but when the choice is YES, then 15 years are lost.

I respect your opinion.

If I found my child deaf then I would wear HA on my child straight way... I would say around 6 months old. I know what I´m saying because I have friends who wear HA since they were 6 months old. They speaks like HOH and can phone (phone relatives only).

Yes, we parents decide for our children if there´re any emergencies and pick which good school etc, health evironment etc but CI? I beleive from 6 years old is not too late to have CI. I let my child to involve with hearing, HOH, CI and deaf children and it helps my child´s choice. My friend´s son got CI when he was 8 years old. He is 16 years old now and speak good.

I beleive CI is suitable for people who WILLING to learn to speak/how to hear... Some of CI users I know has no interesting to learn to speak and hear... It´s waste of money... That´s why I beleive it´s child´s own willing... It´s child´s feeling if he/she REALLY want to learn speak and hear then........ If I want CI then I has to think twice... Why? I have to spend my time to learn how to speak and how hear all the time, that´s why CI is not for me. I accept my deafness at long time ago. I thank my parents to positive me about my deafness.

 

[highlands]

....
But then, I am hearing, so my view on Deaf society is through a very blurred window, but as a parent I cannot imagine that you would not want your child to hear.
Sure, deafness doesn't mean you cannot live a perfectly full life, I see that around me, but hearing/sounds is a big part of life. Why would you deny that to your children? CODA's show that it's no problem to hear AND be part of Deaf culture.

I feel that the resistance of Deaf culture is doing them more harm than good. They should find a way to integrate people that choose for CI in Deaf culture, but with the way the CI-borgs are treated now, who would do that.

I'm hard of hearing and so I live in both of these worlds : hearing and deaf worlds... I know how a deaf feel life.. it's very nice.. you don't hear much of sound around you..it's another world.. it's so nice in many ways ... it has a diversity from hearing world.. I like silence.. it makes me feel better and being a partial deaf person opened me new doors to fascinating worlds..
It enriched my sensitive world..

I can feel why some total deaf persons do want to 'protect' their worlds..
But anyway, I know that a person can live in both worlds as well.. it's possible.. not hard.. I'm in that way... When I wear my hearing aid.. I get closer to hearing world ( but I'm still outside of it ).. Hearing aid is like a bridge between me and hearing world.. I want that bridge must be strong and quality.. that's why hoh people (including me) try to benefit quality hearing aids.. I like my deaf world too.. perhaps much better than hearing world..

The problem to me is that I have to in hearing world.. Most deaf and hoh people are the same way.. we come from hearing background but live in deaf world.. so we try to find best bridge devices..

Briefly, a deaf person may get a CI and ( if it works,of course ) and may enjoyboth worlds.. it's not hard.. IF we want it's POSSIBLE..

There is no need to get into a fight between hearing and deaf worlds.

 

[Cheri]

I am one of the people that don't agree with giving cochlear implants on children, without their consent, because they are the ones that are living it. Plus you know wearing cochlear implants you can't be involved in certain sports, and children fall and hit their heads because they are children, What happens when they do fall and hurt their heads? That's something to think about too. :Ohno:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

And I can see why. In Norway, where I live, the discussion is allready starting about having fewer and fewer deaf people.

Everyone is offered CI, and since most deaf children are born from hearing parents, it's obvious that more and more will choose for CI, hence, less people that cannot hear.
Rights for deaf people are still very strong, but when the group becomes really small, it might prove difficult to get your rights.

Having read quite a lot about deaf culture, and seeing the resistance in messageboards, I carefully conclude that in many cases the reason that Deaf people are so against CI is not the wellfare of the child, but the wellfare of Deaf community.

But then, I am hearing, so my view on Deaf society is through a very blurred window, but as a parent I cannot imagine that you would not want your child to hear.
Sure, deafness doesn't mean you cannot live a perfectly full life, I see that around me, but hearing/sounds is a big part of life. Why would you deny that to your children? CODA's show that it's no problem to hear AND be part of Deaf culture.

I feel that the resistance of Deaf culture is doing them more harm than good. They should find a way to integrate people that choose for CI in Deaf culture, but with the way the CI-borgs are treated now, who would do that.

Yes, many deaf children born to hearing parents to choose to have CI here in Germany... Why? Because they are being influence by public health department for cover 100% cost for CI surgery, batteries, therapies etc, not HA. That´s why the parents grab the chance for CI surgery.

It doesn´t mean that we don´t want our child to hear. We do want our child hear... I would wear HA on my child immediately after found out that he/she is deaf.

If you want wear HA on your child then you has to pay between 50% and 80% for HA cost and then pay full 100% for HA batteries, that´s why parents rather to have CI for gratis... No wonder, Germans are furious and feel that public health insurance support CI 100% than HA is unfair. We expect them to treat CI and HA users equal. We can´t afford to buy HA batteries since public heath insurance stop to cover HA batteries to support CI.

Afterward some hearing parents are REGRETTED because their children show disrespect on them... They said this to us and recommend us to leave child to have his/her choice.

A professor from Stuggart made preach about CI issues at conference around 15 years ago. We know that he has 12 years old deaf son but he don´t have CI... why? After conference, deafies ask professor why he did not give his son CI? All what he said is not his choice but his son. He do not feel want to implant on him with CI. Deafies told him why can´t he say something about this to conference? He said that it´s his DUTY to make positive information about CI, not pros and cons. Deafies told him that it´s not right because hearing parents deserve the cons/pros. Professor said it´s money business..., every doctors want money because they know public health insurance pay 100%. No Wonder, why the doctor grab this chance.

I do not against CI but I belelive it´s every human´s choice, not do for them.

 

[Nancy]

I'm hard of hearing and so I live in both of these worlds : hearing and deaf worlds... I know how a deaf feel life.. it's very nice.. you don't hear much of sound around you..it's another world.. it's so nice in many ways ... it has a diversity from hearing world.. I like silence.. it makes me feel better and being a partial deaf person opened me new doors to fascinating worlds..
It enriched my sensitive world..

I can feel why some total deaf persons do want to 'protect' their worlds..
But anyway, I know that a person can live in both worlds as well.. it's possible.. not hard.. I'm in that way... When I wear my hearing aid.. I get closer to hearing world ( but I'm still outside of it ).. Hearing aid is like a bridge between me and hearing world.. I want that bridge must be strong and quality.. that's why hoh people (including me) try to benefit quality hearing aids.. I like my deaf world too.. perhaps much better than hearing world..

The problem to me is that I have to in hearing world.. Most deaf and hoh people are the same way.. we come from hearing background but live in deaf world.. so we try to find best bridge devices..

Briefly, a deaf person may get a CI and ( if it works,of course ) and may enjoyboth worlds.. it's not hard.. IF we want it's POSSIBLE..

There is no need to get into a fight between hearing and deaf worlds.

I feel the same way.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I am one of the people that don't agree with giving cochlear implants on children, without their consent, because they are the ones that are living it. Plus you know wearing cochlear implants you can't be involved in certain sports, and children fall and hit their heads because they are children, What happens when they do fall and hurt their heads? That's something to think about too. :Ohno:

That´s what I thought so...