CI on 6 year old.

jillio said:
And, if you have aproblem with me, personally, you are welcome to pm me. And cloggy's family and mine bear no comparison.
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Why the heck would I want to pm you about a problem between us? You have your opinion and I have mine. What ever. parents with deaf children doing their own research into options available deserve to hear from those of us with CI's and those parents who are using them. To be fair it would be nice if those parents of those children you concider failures would comment to but they don't, probably because they have a life outside of message boards like me, lol I really do need to drop this for a while again since nothing ever changes.
 
jag said:
Why the heck would I want to pm you about a problem between us? You have your opinion and I have mine. What ever. parents with deaf children doing their own research into options available deserve to hear from those of us with CI's and those parents who are using them. To be fair it would be nice if those parents of those children you concider failures would comment to but they don't, probably because they have a life outside of message boards like me, lol I really do need to drop this for a while again since nothing ever changes.
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I wish they would join. I have told a few of them about this site but they dont seem interested. Oh well.
 
jag said:
Why the heck would I want to pm you about a problem between us? You have your opinion and I have mine. What ever. parents with deaf children doing their own research into options available deserve to hear from those of us with CI's and those parents who are using them. To be fair it would be nice if those parents of those children you concider failures would comment to but they don't, probably because they have a life outside of message boards like me, lol I really do need to drop this for a while again since nothing ever changes.
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To correct you, I don't consider the child a failure--I consider the system a failure. I consider the medical establishment that does not give parents the information they need to stay realistic in their expectations a failure. I consider the professionalization of hearing teachers of the deaf that often can barely communicate with their students a failure. I consider the mainstreaming movement that isolates and alienates deaf children from each other as well as fromhearing students a failure. I consider the school systems that refuse to provide adequate support systems a failure. I consider the parents that refuse to adapt to their child's needs a failure. But the child--no. The child would succeed if he/she were not surrounded by all the people and attitudes that set him up for failure. It is the hearing oralists who cornered the phrase "oral failure". Please do not put me in that category.
 
jillio said:
It is not a matter of being intolerant for differing views or of parents of deaf children. I am the parent of a deaf child and the only disrespect I have received on this board came from other hearing parents of deaf children, not from the Deaf posters.

The posters on this board, while some do not have CI and do not advocate for CI on children, are not intolerant of those who make that choice. They are intolerant of the attitude that is presented that implies that CI users are superior to non CI users, that spoken language is superior to signed language, and that parents who allow their children to experinece their deafness as a complete part of their identity are less effective and negligent intheir parenting. It is not your viepoint that irritates people, IT IS YOUR ATTITUDE!
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I find your comments interesting in light of the fact that you, above all others, have consistently maintained a superior attitude by constantly telling us that you are right and have demonstrated extreme intolerance towards anyone who disagrees with you. Further, more than anyone else on this forum, you have engaged in personally insulting other posters with your recent posts to Cloggy and Drew's Dad perfect examples. However, you fail to stop there for you have also attacked the children of other posters as well as their relationship with their parents. Since you want to bring up specific posts, one only has to look at Post #50 in the "Why" thread in "Our world, our culture" to see an example of how, unprovoked, you launched into a vicious and venomous attack on both Cloggy and his daughter and myself and my daughter.

And no, you cannot hide behind your worn out childish excuse that "I was only responding in kind" because I have never posted in your little thread.

That you chose to post bizarre misrepresentations about my daughter and my relationship with her for no reason is troubling. Are you that obsessed with ci parents and insecure about yourself that you need to desperately lash out at someone's child? It is disturbing that you chose to attack a young girl and a college kid you have never met nor ever talked to who have done nothing to you but prove you wrong about cochlear implants.

But it only goes to demonstrate what I have said about you all along: Just consider the source.

Rick
 
LTHFAdvocate said:
Not from the perspective for obtaining insurance coverage for the implant, for several reasons:

1) Several insurers (United Healthcare being the largest) have overall corporate policies specifically excluding CIs for pre-lingually deafened adults. Once the child turns 18 and can legally make the decision on their own, if they are insured by one of these plans, they couldn't get the insurer to pay for an implant.

2) The federal government in the US mandates coverage for cochlear implants through Medicaid for children, but does not mandate the same coverage for CIs for adults. Many states specifically exclude CIs for adults on Medicaid, and I personally know of at least one family that packed up and moved to another state so the adult on Medicaid could get coverage for the CI she decided she wanted after she turned 18 when she had declined to get one that was offered to her when she was younger.

3) Once children become adults, they frequently are forced to drop off their parents health plans. If they are students and pick up their university's health plan, there is likely no coverage for CIs -- I have yet to see a University insurance plan include coverage for CIs, and I've looked at dozens of them. If they buy an individual plan, the insurer is allowed to discriminate against them -- so the insurer can say "we don't want to insure you at all, you're deaf" or "we'll insure you for everything but hearing impairment related illnesses" Once again, no coverage for CIs. If they get a group plan through a job, there is an 88 % chance that coverage for a CI is included, but if there was more than a 63 day gap between when their previous policy ended and when the group plan begins, once again, a pre-existing condition exclusion can kick in -- the exclusion is temporary, but it can cause an up to 18 month delay in getting coverage for the CI.

I'm not saying that coverage should be the only concern, but it is very frequently a factor given that most people can't just whip out their checkbook and write a $60,000 check for the surgery if they can't get insurance to cover it. Bottom line is if insurers can legally avoid writing a large check (for anything, and CIs really aren't an exception in this matter) they will.

Sheri
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Sheri,

Great post and very informative. Please do not feel you are ever costrained from contributing helpful information. One thing, a lot of major corporations like the one I work for, cover children as long as they are enrolled in college up to the age of 25 and in the case of children with major disabilities up to the age of 25 whether in college or not.
Rick
 
neecy said:
And yet - you are putting Cloggy down because he is a loving, caring parent wanting only the best for his Daughter, who appears (from what he has told us, and what he and I have spoken about) very well adjusted, happy and healthy!

Rick said it best - Cloggy - keep doing what you are doing, because you are obviously doing something RIGHT!!! I applaud you, and hope you will continue to share your experiences as the parent of a deaf child AND the parent of a child who CAN hear with a CI. She has the best of both worlds right now - perhaps THAT is what some people find so frightening.
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neecy,

thanks for your support of us parents, just trying to do the best we can for our children. Your posts on this thread have been right on the money!
Rick
 
I notice we keep trying to educate one another but does not go through each others head. So each of us have goals educate one and another about deafness. But how do we unite?

Cloggy: Always been focusing about how important is it to hear so we can communicate with hearing world. Focusing on CI technology to help clarify hearing for deafness. So its easy for Cloggy to communicate with Lotte on speech language. Cloggy informs us how beneficial it is to use CI.

Jillio: Educating everyone here about deaf culture in general. The importants of using ASL, understanding the deaf feelings IE: inferior, communication barriers, etc. I notice she is trying to mediate for all of us.

Shel90: Informs us about using alternative languages for deafness. Importants facts about deaf children with CI and HAs using ASL to help expand culture acceptants.

Rick48: Just like Cloggy. Important of how we deaf must hear.

Skyporkie: Thanks for your support but leave the decision to me if I want this thread to close or not. I understand your frustration but we have to understand one another's view.

Everybody else: who's ever your side is on, gives each other reasonable doubt.

Me: I am concern about each childhood's developments.

Correct me if I am wrong.

How can we unite and blend together to teach each other the to get full capacity of importants on deaf education?
 
jillio said:
Actually, the argument that the child should be able to choose is very valid, not just for the posters on this board, but for many in the D/d community who do not post on this board. Your posts about Lotte are not in the least threatening, because, if they are true, are certainly the exception to the rule, and not what is seen in the majority of deaf students and toddlers--with or without CI. And yes, ASL is the answer, because without access to a visual language, a deaf child will be forever language deprived. It is the only language to which a deaf child has unimpeded access at all times. The ATV therapy required following implantation almost guarantees language delays because of the sheer effort and amount of time spent in developing auditory and verbal skills in an artificial learning environment.

And it has been said before, and I will say it here again, Lotte is still very young. You have yet to embark on an educational career with her, and therefore, have no idea of what the future holds for her educationally. You cannot possibly predict the future with any certainty. The children that shel and I deal with have surpassed Lotte on that front, and therefore what we report is based on reality, not hopeful prediction or wishful thinking. So hang onto that hope cloggy, and I hope you will not need it in the future. History, however, says you will.

No one ever said that Lotte would blame you for giving her a CI--what was said was it was just as likely that a child would blame aparent for not implanting as for implanting. Again, you are twisting words to suit your own purpose. Just as you tell us that Lotte can now hear, and is perfectly fine in her adjustment and development, yet on her blog, and another post on thsi board, you fully admitted that she did indeed suffer language delay. That might seem minor to you at this point in time, but the true consequences of that will be seen when she arrives at school, and so much attention has to be given tothose language dlays that she is not receiving adequate education in ther subjects.

You speak too often of things you have no knowledge of, and are operating from your own limited viewpoint and experience. And then you wonder why people are rude to you.
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:gpost:
 
neecy said:
I wasn't speaking to you specifically, Shel, but those who keep insisting that Cloggy should be forced to leave the board (or be banned) simply because he's hearing, and "has no deaf experience", and those who regularly criticize the way he and his wife are raising their daughter (and not just him - there have been other parents of implanted children who have left this board because of similar attacks.)
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neecy, After Cloggy and I debated sharing my thoughts about deaf culture because of my experiences, I was told not to project the miseries to Cloggy. So I stopped and not talk about it to him. Instead he keeps insist talking about how importants it is to hear. So I ADMIT I got frustrated and told him to listen to what everybody who have EXPERIENCES as childhood deafness, not parents telling us how CI is beneficial. But what I foresee here is Cloggy is depriving of how importants to hear and he may not aware of what might get him down the road. Just as same for any other parent with implants children. That is why deaf adults start attacking because their experiences really TELL. I am sorry they left the board but they will learn to live from AD and hopefully accept the consequences on their children.

jillio is supporting the deaf children and adults thoughts. However, there will always be controversal but what is the bestest way to educate children?

I am not one of them to try have Cloggy leave the board, I just want him to be aware whats going to happen. However, Maybe nothing ever bad happen to Lotte so all of Cloggy's life with Lotte will be just as normal as a hearing child will be.
 
beetarehoh said:
neecy, After Cloggy and I debated sharing my thoughts about deaf culture because of my experiences, I was told not to project the miseries to Cloggy. So I stopped and not talk about it to him. Instead he keeps insist talking about how importants it is to hear. So I ADMIT I got frustrated and told him to listen to what everybody who have EXPERIENCES as childhood deafness, not parents telling us how CI is beneficial. But what I foresee here is Cloggy is depriving of how importants to hear and he may not aware of what might get him down the road. Just as same for any other parent with implants children. That is why deaf adults start attacking because their experiences really TELL. I am sorry they left the board but they will learn to live from AD and hopefully accept the consequences on their children.

jillio is supporting the deaf children and adults thoughts. However, there will always be controversal but what is the bestest way to educate children?

I am not one of them to try have Cloggy leave the board, I just want him to be aware whats going to happen. However, Maybe nothing ever bad happen to Lotte so all of Cloggy's life with Lotte will be just as normal as a hearing child will be.
Click to expand...

I understand your reasons for sharing your experiences growing up with hearing loss. I am doing the same too. Up to others if they want to learn more about our experiences or not.
 
rick48 said:
I find your comments interesting in light of the fact that you, above all others, have consistently maintained a superior attitude by constantly telling us that you are right and have demonstrated extreme intolerance towards anyone who disagrees with you. Further, more than anyone else on this forum, you have engaged in personally insulting other posters with your recent posts to Cloggy and Drew's Dad perfect examples. However, you fail to stop there for you have also attacked the children of other posters as well as their relationship with their parents. Since you want to bring up specific posts, one only has to look at Post #50 in the "Why" thread in "Our world, our culture" to see an example of how, unprovoked, you launched into a vicious and venomous attack on both Cloggy and his daughter and myself and my daughter.

And no, you cannot hide behind your worn out childish excuse that "I was only responding in kind" because I have never posted in your little thread.

That you chose to post bizarre misrepresentations about my daughter and my relationship with her for no reason is troubling. Are you that obsessed with ci parents and insecure about yourself that you need to desperately lash out at someone's child? It is disturbing that you chose to attack a young girl and a college kid you have never met nor ever talked to who have done nothing to you but prove you wrong about cochlear implants.

But it only goes to demonstrate what I have said about you all along: Just consider the source.

Rick
Click to expand...

Just reread post # 50 that you refered to--no names mentioned. You assume I was talking about you and cloggy. Oops--I suppose you forgot that the world doesn't necessarily revolve around you.

What you have to say about me isn't a consideration for me. I have the approvaland support of those whose opinions matter to me, and I will continue to advocate for those need it. I know that what I do results in positive outcomes, and I am secure in the fact that my investigations and research into the field are thorough and accurate. I am actively involved with deaf students--and the deaf adults involved in our deaf studies program at the university with whom I share my ideas and opinions to insure that I am indeed speaking correctly when I advocate. That is the only approval I need. The approval of persons such as yourself holds no value for me, and is not a concern.
 
I overlooked this statement from Cloggy.

Cloggy said:
SO... observing as a parent of a deaf child makes anything said not believable. Observing as a parent of a deaf child that can hear with Ci, that's not just unbelievable, that's actually worthless.
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I am not saying that your daughter can hear is not believable. Whats I do not believable is your resource will advocate ALL deaf lives. You can observe daughter and tell us how well she is doing but as of right now does not mean anything to me because she is only three years old.

Just remembered what I am doing here.....
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I ll remember very well......

So this is "with all respect..."
Would hate to hear you talking without respect.....
Little final question... do you speak this way with anyone that disagrees with you ??
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That's why I said with all respect, because I do respect you. I just know that you should wait until you really know whats going to sneak up on you. (maybe never happens)

No I dont speak this way to people because I am humble while I interact with them, on this post its easier to express because you are on the other side of the world. Also, I am working in a very deaf friendly environment who have high tolerance and understanding the deaf children and adult's feelings.


But thanks for your post, I am getting a better picture of the social-emotional problems that DD mentioned ....
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Yeah and you are part of the influences. I am aware that you are putting behind the social emotional problems and trying to fix deafness the EASY way for YOU.
 
beetarehoh said:
I notice we keep trying to educate one another but does not go through each others head. So each of us have goals educate one and another about deafness. But how do we unite?

Cloggy: Always been focusing about how important is it to hear so we can communicate with hearing world. Focusing on CI technology to help clarify hearing for deafness. So its easy for Cloggy to communicate with Lotte on speech language. Cloggy informs us how beneficial it is to use CI.

Jillio: Educating everyone here about deaf culture in general. The importants of using ASL, understanding the deaf feelings IE: inferior, communication barriers, etc. I notice she is trying to mediate for all of us.

Shel90: Informs us about using alternative languages for deafness. Importants facts about deaf children with CI and HAs using ASL to help expand culture acceptants.

Rick48: Just like Cloggy. Important of how we deaf must hear.

Skyporkie: Thanks for your support but leave the decision to me if I want this thread to close or not. I understand your frustration but we have to understand one another's view.

Everybody else: who's ever your side is on, gives each other reasonable doubt.

Me: I am concern about each childhood's developments.

Correct me if I am wrong.

How can we unite and blend together to teach each other the to get full capacity of importants on deaf education?
Click to expand...

beetarehoh,

The way I see it you are correct in your interpretations of what everyone is trying to do. And, please continue toshare your experiences, because the saring of your experiences only allows me better understanding sothat I can better serve and advocate for the deaf who come to me for assistance.
 
Wow is all that I can say after reading today's messages in this thread. I have more respect for some of you and a whole lot less for others. I think that Neecy hit the nail on the head when she described what is going on here. As a relatively new parent of a deaf child who is learning and trying to decipher which road is best for her son, who is implanted and still communicates strongly with sign, I must say that if I met some of these attitudes on the street, I would feel so discouraged with the path that our life has taken. That the choice that I heartwrenchingly made for MY child would bring this much turmoil and controversy, I would do all that I can to shield him from this! I was warned that our decision would incur anger toward us and our child, which I was prepared for, but this is what I hope I never encounter out there, where hopefully more manners are used, is this subversive anger and hatred toward parents who do feel that the hearing world is positive and want to provide their child with the opportunity to be a part of it. I think that there are points to both sides, but as a voice for the hearing parents who are trying (I think that my few previous posts reflect this) to figure out this road with both sign and speech, it is very discouraging to see those, mostly Jillio, who consistently and very negatively I might add, undercut and undervalue all the positive things that we see in our kids that have anything related to being "oral". We get it, sign has extreme value to some kids that use CI, but can you not budge just one little inch that CI brings something positive and wonderful to these kids as well. I know that my little guy is only 19 months, but I do know that he asks to put in on (in sign) and he dances and gets very excited and claps when we put his favorite songs and DVD's in (Signing Time).

Like I said, I respect some of you so much more during this debate because you are able to look outside of your small window of the world and admit that there are positives to both sides of the story. I think that that is the whole point.
 
Feeling like I may have gone a bit overboard. I think that the opinions are all valid on this board. Jillio, that you are doing everything you can to educate and be an advocate for those who chose sign is wonderful, however, you come across as one who is extremely intolerant of anyone who has had a positive experience with CI. Beetarehoh, you're opinion means a lot because it is your own personal experience and you can at least admit honestly that others may have a way that is positive as well. Once again, I like this board, and I think that this debate is great for all sides, as both have very good points that the other should acknowledge. Shel, as always, I think that you bring a great balance of pointing out truth while being open to others.
 
Cole's mom said:
Feeling like I may have gone a bit overboard. I think that the opinions are all valid on this board. Jillio, that you are doing everything you can to educate and be an advocate for those who chose sign is wonderful, however, you come across as one who is extremely intolerant of anyone who has had a positive experience with CI. Beetarehoh, you're opinion means a lot because it is your own personal experience and you can at least admit honestly that others may have a way that is positive as well. Once again, I like this board, and I think that this debate is great for all sides, as both have very good points that the other should acknowledge. Shel, as always, I think that you bring a great balance of pointing out truth while being open to others.
Click to expand...

:ty: I gotta admit that I did put some negative POVs only because I was feeling frustrated.

Really, I think this whole thing started due to some senstiivitiness of each other's values and the feelings that one or the other's values werent as important as the other person's values and it just spiraled from there. I really cant even remember how it started.

Really, in real life, the Deaf community is not like that most of the time. I mean, nobody goes out of their way to insult parents for implanting their children. It is more towards the attitude about sign language not being as important as spoken language is what many people take offense to. I think that was how this whole bashing thing got started. LOL!

Gosh, we have a parent of one implanted student who is actively involved in the PTCA and Deaf events at our school. I dont recall anyone bashing him for his decision for implanting his child. Everyone loves chatting with him and learning from him.

Dont forget, that this is a forum and u would most likely see so many debates about CIs, deaf education, oralism and blah blah here but out there in real life, nobody really argues with each other like we do here. :)
 
I know, I think that I hit frustration overload after reading the days posts all in one shot. I do agree that there is a sense of invincibility when posting that you can't have in real life. You are right, most people are very nice and helpful and open in the real world, but, and maybe it is still insecurety and niavety in this new world, I worry that some of what these posts are saying is how they "really" feel, and that they might undermine my authority as a parent when interacting with my son. I need to get over that, obviously, and trust that their good intentions really are good intentions. Thanks!
 
Cole's mom said:
Wow is all that I can say after reading today's messages in this thread. I have more respect for some of you and a whole lot less for others. I think that Neecy hit the nail on the head when she described what is going on here. As a relatively new parent of a deaf child who is learning and trying to decipher which road is best for her son, who is implanted and still communicates strongly with sign, I must say that if I met some of these attitudes on the street, I would feel so discouraged with the path that our life has taken. That the choice that I heartwrenchingly made for MY child would bring this much turmoil and controversy, I would do all that I can to shield him from this! I was warned that our decision would incur anger toward us and our child, which I was prepared for, but this is what I hope I never encounter out there, where hopefully more manners are used, is this subversive anger and hatred toward parents who do feel that the hearing world is positive and want to provide their child with the opportunity to be a part of it. I think that there are points to both sides, but as a voice for the hearing parents who are trying (I think that my few previous posts reflect this) to figure out this road with both sign and speech, it is very discouraging to see those, mostly Jillio, who consistently and very negatively I might add, undercut and undervalue all the positive things that we see in our kids that have anything related to being "oral". We get it, sign has extreme value to some kids that use CI, but can you not budge just one little inch that CI brings something positive and wonderful to these kids as well. I know that my little guy is only 19 months, but I do know that he asks to put in on (in sign) and he dances and gets very excited and claps when we put his favorite songs and DVD's in (Signing Time).

Like I said, I respect some of you so much more during this debate because you are able to look outside of your small window of the world and admit that there are positives to both sides of the story. I think that that is the whole point.
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Pls dont let few of us here on AD scare u away. We do not represent everyone in the Hearing community nor the Deaf community. :) The whole debate really has gotten more personal than impersonal so we are just bickering with each other. Trying to step out here and taking more of an impersonal view and try not to react emotionally to some of the comments but I am human and sometimes emotional views take precedence over my objective views. Oh well...
 
Cole's mom said:
Feeling like I may have gone a bit overboard. I think that the opinions are all valid on this board. Jillio, that you are doing everything you can to educate and be an advocate for those who chose sign is wonderful, however, you come across as one who is extremely intolerant of anyone who has had a positive experience with CI. Beetarehoh, you're opinion means a lot because it is your own personal experience and you can at least admit honestly that others may have a way that is positive as well. Once again, I like this board, and I think that this debate is great for all sides, as both have very good points that the other should acknowledge. Shel, as always, I think that you bring a great balance of pointing out truth while being open to others.
Click to expand...

Thanks.:wave:
 
Cole's mom said:
I know, I think that I hit frustration overload after reading the days posts all in one shot. I do agree that there is a sense of invincibility when posting that you can't have in real life. You are right, most people are very nice and helpful and open in the real world, but, and maybe it is still insecurety and niavety in this new world, I worry that some of what these posts are saying is how they "really" feel, and that they might undermine my authority as a parent when interacting with my son. I need to get over that, obviously, and trust that their good intentions really are good intentions. Thanks!
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Well, I wont lie..I am sure u will encounter people who will have strong anti-CI views but dont let that stop u. Heck, when I first got involved with the Deaf community at around 28 years old, I was very awkward with ASL and many people bashed me for being a "hearing" wannabe but I told them off and still kept on going. Found a handful of people in the Deaf community that I really click with and since then it has been good. Of course, not everyone is gonna be the best of friends in the Deaf community just like in the Hearing community. Just remember that each person doesnt represent a whole community. :)
 
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