CI--Deaf or Hearing?

[deafskeptic]

Which deaf/Deaf/DEAF IS THE ABOVE POST REFERRING TO?

Someone taken a survey of ALL of them?

Is this not to be- reality driven? Computer screens-notwithstanding.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

I believe it refers to SEE and ASL and the impact it has on prelingal deaf (those who became deaf before age 3) in Deaf Ed.

It does not apply to the general deaf population for the following reason: they usually became deaf as an adult thus they are not at risk for language delays.

I've had to live the reality of oralism and I've seen the effect it has on my classmates. It aint pretty. So did those deaf who grew up deaf like me. They endured much the same thing I did.

 

[Beowulf]

I believe it refers to SEE and ASL and the impact it has on prelingal deaf (those who became deaf before age 3) in Deaf Ed.

It does not apply to the general deaf population for the following reason: they usually became deaf as an adult thus they are not at risk for language delays.

I've had to live the reality of oralism and I've seen the effect it has on my classmates. It aint pretty. So did those deaf who grew up deaf like me. They endured much the same thing I did.

Actually he is implying that if jillio cannot come up with statistics, they must be nonexistent. See, DrPhill has SO much respect for jillio.

 

[Cheetah]

There are several studies that have been done over the years, but I am not where I can access my research files right now. However, I would suggest starting with the Oxford Journal of Deaf Education.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'm almost sad I asked the question. There is some really intense reading on that site.

The one article I picked to read completely did not answer any questions at all and raised a whole bunch of new questions. Sigh. It's almost like the author is pointing out all the faults of all of the methods and making no attempt to claim one is superior or provide solutions. However the author does acknowledge the overwhelming desire of the Deaf community to use ASL as the teaching method to learn to read/write English.

Bilingual-bicultural models of literacy education for deaf students: considering the claims.

Here is the article I just read... maybe you will get more out of it than I did.

 

[Bottesini]

Actually he is implying that if jillio cannot come up with statistics, they must be nonexistent. See, DrPhill has SO much respect for jillio.

I think he wants to know. He just doesn't like Jillio. Which is ok. She doesn't like him either.

We can still encourage them to engage in productive dialog.

 

[jillio]

Actually he is implying that if jillio cannot come up with statistics, they must be nonexistent. See, DrPhill has SO much respect for jillio.

I can assure you the stats are existing. But since I have studied this issue in depth, and have assimmilated the knowledge into my knowledge base, I don't need to go running for a reference everytime I make a comment on the topic.

 

[Beowulf]

I think he wants to know. He just doesn't like Jillio. Which is ok. She doesn't like him either.

We can still encourage them to engage in productive dialog.

In Caesar's Palace?

 

[jillio]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'm almost sad I asked the question. There is some really intense reading on that site.

The one article I picked to read completely did not answer any questions at all and raised a whole bunch of new questions. Sigh. It's almost like the author is pointing out all the faults of all of the methods and making no attempt to claim one is superior or provide solutions. However the author does acknowledge the overwhelming desire of the Deaf community to use ASL as the teaching method to learn to read/write English.

Bilingual-bicultural models of literacy education for deaf students: considering the claims.

Here is the article I just read... maybe you will get more out of it than I did.

Thanks for sharing your article. I will download and go over it later.

 

[jillio]

I think he wants to know. He just doesn't like Jillio. Which is ok. She doesn't like him either.

We can still encourage them to engage in productive dialog.

Drphil has been told numerous times how to find that which would provide him information on topics such as these. I cannot, however, force him to take advantage of those sources.

 

[Jiro]

No one here is saying you (in general) should use SEE.

it's not about us.... it's about your view on choice of sign languages for your deaf son.

 

[Jiro]

It is another example of telling the Deaf that they are wrong. Nothing new.

I don't believe that is the case in here for CSign. I'm pretty sure.

But I'd like to hear her response to my Post #1132.

 

[jillio]

I don't believe that is the case in here for CSign. I'm pretty sure.

But I'd like to hear her response to my Post #1132.

If she chooses SEE over ASL for her deaf child, she is saying that the D/deaf who keep saying that ASL is the best way to address the needs of the D/deaf is not valid. If she believed that ASL was the way to address the communication needs of the D/deaf, as stated by those who live with deafness, then she would be using that and not an MCE designed by the hearing.

This is just another example of the incongruency between her actions and her words.

 

[AOS]

I wish we could get rid of the myth that we are anti CI/anti hoh. Besides there are still significent numbers of kids who can't get to hoh listening levels with CIs.

I had read that there are those in the deaf community that ostracize ppl with Cis. This info came from a CI mfg. It did note that it didnt necessarily apply to late-deafened as these ppl were not saying 1 community is better then the other, simply they ppl are naturally comfortable using the tools they were most familiar with.

I am late deafened as of a few yrs ago. I am trying to find out why I am considered disabled? My balance is off and that is a disability in my opinion but not hearing has opened up so much to me. I can see things I did not see before. Other senses are heightened and amaze me YAY ME!

My toolbox is empty atm but not for long! Whether it be Ci's or ASL with lip reading, I KNOW what I CAN do and have to offer others. Some are not open- minded to finding out. That is on them. We are who we believe we are and....hmm our own personal perceptions are the right ones..

The deaf community is a proud community. In the few years I have been deaf, I completely understand why the deaf community is so proud and no matter what my future holds, I shall embrace being deaf or HOH

 

[jillio]

I had read that there are those in the deaf community that ostracize ppl with Cis. This info came from a CI mfg. It did note that it didnt necessarily apply to late-deafened as these ppl were not saying 1 community is better then the other, simply they ppl are naturally comfortable using the tools they were most familiar with.

I am late deafened as of a few yrs ago. I am trying to find out why I am considered disabled? My balance is off and that is a disability in my opinion but not hearing has opened up so much to me. I can see things I did not see before. Other senses are heightened and amaze me YAY ME!

My toolbox is empty atm but not for long! Whether it be Ci's or ASL with lip reading, I KNOW what I CAN do and have to offer others. Some are not open- minded to finding out. That is on them. We are who we believe we are and....hmm our own personal perceptions are the right ones..

The deaf community is a proud community. In the few years I have been deaf, I completely understand why the deaf community is so proud and no matter what my future holds, I shall embrace being deaf or HOH

Don't put 100% faith in what a CI manufacturer tells you.

 

[Royale]

Wow I do not have time to read all 40 pages but I want to tell you something real simple.

Once you are born Deaf. You are always Deaf regardless of HA or CI. You die Deaf!

 

[Jiro]

Wow I do not have time to read all 40 pages but I want to tell you something real simple.

Once you are born Deaf. You are always Deaf regardless of HA or CI. You die Deaf!

lol - right now, it's about parents deciding on choice of sign languages for their deaf children - SEE, ASL, etc.

 

[shel90]

I don't believe that is the case in here for CSign. I'm pretty sure.

But I'd like to hear her response to my Post #1132.

By telling us that SEE is a language when we have stated over again and again that it is not? Indirectly, she is telling Deaf people that they are wrong.

 

[GrendelQ]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'm almost sad I asked the question. There is some really intense reading on that site.

The one article I picked to read completely did not answer any questions at all and raised a whole bunch of new questions. Sigh. It's almost like the author is pointing out all the faults of all of the methods and making no attempt to claim one is superior or provide solutions. However the author does acknowledge the overwhelming desire of the Deaf community to use ASL as the teaching method to learn to read/write English.

Bilingual-bicultural models of literacy education for deaf students: considering the claims.

Here is the article I just read... maybe you will get more out of it than I did.

I know how you feel. I've looked for years.

It's not that there's a right answer available to all that no one is listening to. It's that researchers and educators have not yet uncovered the magic bullet, the perfect environment, the "right" method for teaching any deaf kids, not just whose primary language is ASL, to read and write in English, to achieve in school.

As a proponent of a bi-bi environment, and given that we've made an active choice, reinforcing that choice every year of the past 4 my daughter has been affiliated with an ASL-based school for the deaf, fighting alternatives to maintain services and placement at the school, I've searched far and wide for documentation and research to guide us and to support the approach we have found to be right for our daughter. Everything I find supports Marschark's quote: "The evidence has convinced me, more than ever, that there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language."

I recommend [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Based-Practice-Educating-Professional-Perspectives/dp/0199735409"]this book: Evidence-Based Practice in Educating Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing Students (Professional Perspectives on Deafness)[/ame] -- which is packed full of research and new statistics. Check out GoogleBooks for a free online version of the book (there's a limit on your viewing). The Journal of Deaf Studies and Education you started looking into is a great resource, they have devoted entire issues to literacy, and over the years they've published numerous studies of methods attempting to improve the literacy of deaf and HOH kids at all different ages, in many types of academic situations. Takeaways from both these sources are often woven into the responses on the [ame="http://www.rit.edu/ntid/educatingdeafchildren/"]educatingdeafchildren[/ame] site. And if you want any specific article from the last couple of issues, PM me, I may be able to help.

Most of what's been done in the past hasn't worked for deaf kids when it comes to education. Not the various types of oral education programs, not the ASL-based education programs, not bi-bi education, not the mainstream and inclusion and unit settings. We see terrible academic outcomes. And too many gaps in the data captured. Most of the deaf kids in mainstream settings don't even register on studies of how our kids are doing: unless they are taking a separate or accommodated (visually interpreted) version of the exams, they are being classified as typical 'hearing' students. So you can't really get the kind of data on how CI (and HA) kids are doing in the mainstream that we could compare to CI kids in an ASL-based school, or how deaf kids raised with English compare to deaf kids raised with ASL as their primary language across the various settings.

 

[jillio]

By telling us that SEE is a language when we have stated over again and again that it is not? Indirectly, she is telling Deaf people that they are wrong.

Just by choosing to use it rather than ASL she is saying Deaf people are wrong.

That is the issue. The audist actions that these people engage in but don't even recognize!

 

[jillio]

I know how you feel. I've looked for years.

It's not that there's a right answer available to all that no one is listening to. It's that researchers and educators have not yet uncovered the magic bullet, the perfect environment, the "right" method for teaching any deaf kids, not just whose primary language is ASL, to read and write in English, to achieve in school.

As a proponent of a bi-bi environment, and given that we've made an active choice, reinforcing that choice every year of the past 4 my daughter has been affiliated with an ASL-based school for the deaf, fighting alternatives to maintain services and placement at the school, I've searched far and wide for documentation and research to guide us and to support the approach we have found to be right for our daughter. Everything I find supports Marschark's quote: "The evidence has convinced me, more than ever, that there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language."

I recommend this book: Evidence-Based Practice in Educating Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing Students (Professional Perspectives on Deafness) -- which is packed full of research and new statistics. Check out GoogleBooks for a free online version of the book (there's a limit on your viewing). The Journal of Deaf Studies and Education you started looking into is a great resource, they have devoted entire issues to literacy, and over the years they've published numerous studies of methods attempting to improve the literacy of deaf and HOH kids at all different ages, in many types of academic situations. Check out their last 2 issues -- amazing articles on literacy. Takeaways from both these sources are often woven into the responses on the educatingdeafchildren site. And if you want any specific article from the last couple of issues, PM me, I may be able to help.

Most of what's been done in the past hasn't worked for deaf kids when it comes to education. Not the various types of oral education programs, not the ASL-based education programs, not bi-bi education, not the mainstream and inclusion and unit settings. We see terrible academic outcomes. And too many gaps in the data captured. Most of the deaf kids in mainstream settings don't even register on studies of how our kids are doing: unless they are taking a separate or accommodated (visually interpreted) version of the exams, they are being classified as typical 'hearing' students. So you can't really get the kind of data on how CI (and HA) kids are doing in the mainstream that we could compare to CI kids in an ASL-based school, or how deaf kids raised with English compare to deaf kids raised with ASL as their primary language across the various settings.

There is however, research that indicates what works for the vast majority.

 

[GrendelQ]

By telling us that SEE is a language when we have stated over again and again that it is not? Indirectly, she is telling Deaf people that they are wrong.

I think she keeps saying that English is a language, and she's using SEE to support her child's use of English -- not that SEE is a separate language in of itself.