Chinese discovered America before Columbus discovered?

[Endymion]

Historians, who influenced the school system firsthand, should be blamed for the "big lie". :liar:

I don't think historians should be blamed. Historians attempt to practice objectivity, just like a mathematician makes sure his math proof is correct before presenting it to the world.

The most prevalent force affecting history as we are taught is political revisionism. Every group is guilty of revisionism to some extent.

For one example, the movie Quo Vadis skewers history by turning Nero into an evil anti-religious lunatic who burns down Rome. Truth is, we don't know who started the great burning of Rome.

For another example, American textbooks revise history because we do not want to face the terrors and atrocities we've commited. During the cold war, we heavily criticized the Russians for their human rights record. Their response?

"А у вас негров линчуют" (translation: "And you [Americans] are lynching negroes")

It is somewhat amazing to me how quickly we're forgetting that not even fifty years ago we committed huge acts of injustice against racial minorities in our country. Of course we're doing that, it's political revisionism: we don't want to remember this. It's "bad politics to focus on the bad things" ... thus, we ignore them.

For yet another example, if you go to the statue of Washington in DC, you will find that George Washington is modeled at seven feet tall with the body of a Greek god. Personally, I think he had more flab on him than his wife would have cared to admit.

There are plenty more examples, unfortunately.

 

[Reba]

I don't think historians should be blamed. Historians attempt to practice objectivity, just like a mathematician makes sure his math proof is correct before presenting it to the world.

The most prevalent force affecting history as we are taught is political revisionism. Every group is guilty of revisionism to some extent.

There are plenty more examples, unfortunately.

Such as:

 

[Endymion]

Such as:

Rofl, Reba! I love your post!

 

[XBGMER]

I believe the white people doesn't want written the history about Leif Erkson and rest other cultures' historian information.. Likely for example DeafClimber's comment about China's history really very oldest year and have information more than white people..

White people always think their own lands not Indian native people's property.. Few years ago, found out that Indian native's archive roll paper says it's OWN INDIAN PROPERTY OF LAND.. Gov't really huge embrassement and send them quarrel and money.. Doesn't want them know rest other people see or hear..
Went Quiet quicker..

I agree with your post... some people who deny or angry at your post what you wanted to put the facts that what I can't denying!


I know why white people claimed people that they own lands because white people who had very talent about contruction on the buliding over USA, Cananda, Europe, and Aust---a. they had been many invests in their exist what i believe in existence in white genetics of people.. if who can live the world without white people?? look at china, mexico, south america, south asia, go on and on they are so poor and have no good struct their own building... tell me different people of world who come into europe, cananda, usa and aust, because they want to looking for better life and can live under better shelters than their own countries.. my facts that around the world depend on white world, not depend their own countires.... F.A.C.T!

TELL ME WHO INVEST MAYFLOWER SHIP?, WHO INVEST MILITARY VEHCLES LIKE TANK, MOTORCYCLE, WEAPONS LIKE THAT?, WHO INVEST AMOTIC?, WHO FIRST WALK ON THE MOON, GOING ON AND ON?!!


My therefore is that I don't think that china discovered the new world before europe... if China discovered the america, Then look at Mexico or Latin coountries, most native mexico and latin rule over their lands and they never let china of foreigners who moved there and become rule the native of people in their countries who not relate their the china of strangers genetics... thats fact!! c'mon!

 

[Reiko]

Anybody interested in this subject should read a book called 1421: The Year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies.
1421

It's a very interesting book.

 

[EDGE]

It doesn't matter who first discovery.

It's important why Columbus discovery because they bring white people to North America and change forever to the whole world.

If it's not for Columbus... The one of few most important source such as Ben Frankline wouldn't be EXIST to bring the freedom ideal, understand electric, glasses with two-way read/visual, and more you name.

 

[VamPyroX]

It doesn't matter who first discovery.

It's important why Columbus discovery because they bring white people to North America and change forever to the whole world.

If it's not for Columbus... The one of few most important source such as Ben Frankline wouldn't be EXIST to bring the freedom ideal, understand electric, glasses with two-way read/visual, and more you name.

Well, anything could happen.

Maybe, someone else will find out things that Benjamin Franklin found... but earlier or later.

 

[Reiko]

Back in the early 15th century the chinese were the most advanced civilization around. Unfortunately during that century they turned their back on scientific research and exploration. It's purley speculative but who knows what they might have accomplished if they continued their scientific endeavors?

 

[sr171soars]

Back in the early 15th century the chinese were the most advanced civilization around. Unfortunately during that century they turned their back on scientific research and exploration. It's purley speculative but who knows what they might have accomplished if they continued their scientific endeavors?

Oh really! Have you forgotten the Ottoman Empire during this time? They were the "leading" empire and culture as they were reaching the height of their powers. They took over most of the known Muslem world and more (in fact they were the single most important thing on the European minds at that time due to the Turks expansionist policies). They were dynamic and were interested in science and all that jazz. It was their advanced science (weapons) at the time that allowed them to be so aggressive for a long time. This epic clash between cultures (Western European versis Islam) was where the action was (er...it is still going on). It was the Ottoman Empire that preserved much knowledge from the Romans and Greeks that got passed back to the Europeans later on.

This is not to naysay the Chinese civilization which was very old and had lots of knowledge even in the 1500's. The Chinese were always inward looking until very recently. It is looking more and more that this century will be the Chinese "day in the sun" assuming they can manage their people and resources (a big if).

Countries come and go in the great scheme of things. There are lots of reasons for this. It all begins with the people themselves. If they have a drive to achieve something, they become more noticable in the world. Over time, all countries/civilizations ebb and flow and nobody stays at the top of the heap forever...none. Look at the Egyptians...greatest power on earth for centuries but where are they now? Same is true of the Ancient Chinese, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Ottomans and the list goes on. This is a great lesson for the USA (we can look to Britain for a recent example).

I have no truck with revisionists who would like to rewrite history just because they don't like what happened in the past (especially here). History happened both the good and the bad. The bad is not just limited to Whites who came over...the Indians were not always nice guys (tribal warfare was bloody and they loved being warriors). The Indians lost out because they couldn't complete with the immigrants over time. This is nothing new...it has happened time and time again the world over!!! Does anybody here know that the Han Chinese are the most populous group in China and how they became so? They didn't by being nice to the others. Everybody has dirty secrets that they can be ashamed about but so what? It won't be the first time nor the last.

The ideals what made America has been and is still a magnet for people the world over (why do so many want to come here if it is so bad as you revisionists like to say). This doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned. It doesn't mean that America will always be a beacon for everybody. It is obvious that is changing as the world has changed. It all goes back to who and what the people are and that is never static. All things ebb and flow...learn from the past and move on.

 

[Reba]

... All things ebb and flow...learn from the past and move on.

 

[Reiko]

Oh really! Have you forgotten the Ottoman Empire during this time? They were the "leading" empire and culture as they were reaching the height of their powers.

The ottoman's may have been much more agressive but their scientific knowledge was nothing compared to the chinese at the time. And I'm talking about 15th century not 1500's

It was the Ottoman Empire that preserved much knowledge from the Romans and Greeks that got passed back to the Europeans later on.

Actually that was the byzamtium empire which was a left over from the eastern roman empire. The ottomans destroyed them in 1453 when they took constantinople.

 

[sr171soars]

The ottoman's may have been much more agressive but their scientific knowledge was nothing compared to the chinese at the time. And I'm talking about 15th century not 1500's

Okay...that's my mistake about pegging the 15th century to the 1500's You may be correct for the 15th Century (1400's) but they (Turks) were no slouches by the next century as it was the start of their golden age and it had a tremendous impact on the rest of the world particularily Europe. The Ottomans kept intact a great deal of the medical and mathematical knowledge already gathered (from Egypt, Greece, Roman) and added to it. It didn't hurt that they captured Constantinople (since renamed Istanbul) where the Byzantines stored lots of that stuff.

Actually that was the byzamtium empire which was a left over from the eastern roman empire. The ottomans destroyed them in 1453 when they took constantinople.

Same answer as above mixing up my centuries... Still my point was valid as the Byzantium empire was destroyed by the Ottomans. It was the Ottomans that kept much of the "knowledge" alive until the Europeans rediscovered it much later on.

 

[Reiko]

I wonder what the world would be like today if the ottoman empire wasn't broken up after world war I.

 

[Endymion]

I think the Greeks would have taken over the Turks and would by now rule the world. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

 

[sequoias]

I suck at history, so I don't know much about that stuff.

 

[Reiko]

I think the Greeks would have taken over the Turks and would by now rule the world. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

Greek salad mmmm yummy

 

[Endymion]

Greek salad mmmm yummy

I love feta cheese!!

 

[sr171soars]

I wonder what the world would be like today if the ottoman empire wasn't broken up after world war I.

A very interesting question indeed.

Not sure but I suppose that things might be a lot better in the Middle East especially with Iraq. This is in reference to the Kurdish situation. Iraq is a fictional country carved out of the Ottoman Empire without regard to the ethnic boundaries. Put succinctly, there should have been a Kurdistan created out of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. That would have reduced some of the tensions we see with the Turks and their wariness of any possibility of a independent Kurdish state. If that happens, quite a bit of Turkey would be gone and that is a real fear they have.

On the other hand, you would probably see a very different Middle East if the Ottoman Empire didn't get broken up. Oh...it would have broken up due to ethnic sentiments (read nationalist movements) but the bounderies would be alot different than we see today and probably much more in line of the ethnic groups.

Of course, there is the Sunni and Shiite differences and who knows where that would have gone. Reallly any guess is as good as another.

 

[VamPyroX]

Back in the early 15th century the chinese were the most advanced civilization around. Unfortunately during that century they turned their back on scientific research and exploration. It's purley speculative but who knows what they might have accomplished if they continued their scientific endeavors?

There are some cultures that believe that technology is a sin against God. Look at the Amish!

Who knows... if the Amish weren't like that, we might be more advanced than we are now!

 

[Tharkun]

Don't forget that the Vikings beat Columbus to the Americas. And of course the natives beat both of them there.

This is true