Childs behavior

deafdyke said:
And I wish there were more of you!!!! Seriously, I do think that if more parents were referred to adocates like you, people who understand that "yes deaf kids need speech and hearing, but it shouldn't come at the expense of using other tools in the toolbox."
then AG Bell and the oral programs would be struggling for funding.
Oral only assumes that a dhh kid will be able to access all the advantages of being hearing. It does not. Virtually all of the people raised orally, even thou they have access to the hearing world, and hearing and speaking still express a lot of issues and frustrations with being dhh!
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I wish the same too.
 
faire_jour said:
Yeah, to tell the parents that they are audists and that by not signing they are permanently damaging their kids....sounds great :roll:
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I do not remember seeing Shel post anything like that. As far as I know - she has been for the full toolbox approach. She and I were not given the option of learning ASL while growing up and would have greatly benefited from learning it early on.
 
KristinaB said:
I do not remember seeing Shel post anything like that. As far as I know - she has been for the full toolbox approach. She and I were not given the option of learning ASL while growing up and would have greatly benefited from learning it early on.
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That's what I was just saying in another thread. My ex-husband grew up without any ASL and he remarked often while we were married how much he wished he had known ASL growing up. He didn't learn it until after he left home.

I think his isolation and struggles to understand while growing up is what led to his self-esteem and rejection issues, which I think ultimately failed our marriage.
 
KristinaB said:
I do not remember seeing Shel post anything like that. As far as I know - she has been for the full toolbox approach. She and I were not given the option of learning ASL while growing up and would have greatly benefited from learning it early on.
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Jillio, not Shel.
 
jillo has never posted anything like that either. She is PRO full toolbox! She advocates for BOTH speech and ASL!
 
deafdyke said:
jillo has never posted anything like that either. She is PRO full toolbox! She advocates for BOTH speech and ASL!
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Are you kidding? Are you actually saying that she hasn't said that parents who choose oral only are audists and that their children are going to end up with long term issues??? You must be joking....
 
faire_jour said:
Are you kidding? Are you actually saying that she hasn't said that parents who choose oral only are audists and that their children are going to end up with long term issues??? You must be joking....
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By and large oral ONLY results in issues.
 
By and large oral ONLY results in issues.
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Thank you Tousi.
That's been your experiance too over all your years in Deaf ed? Including through digital aids and first generation of CIs.
Are you actually saying that she hasn't said that parents who choose oral only are audists and that their children are going to end up with long term issues??? Y
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I would listen to her. She is a psychcologist specializing in pediatric dhh issues.....she is seeing a lot of so called oral only" sucesses" with a lot of unmet social emotional issues. She speaks from what she sees in the real world. She does not speak from an oral only "gotta make them as normal as possible" perspective.
Heck, the doctors and experts told my parents the exact same thing, that hoh kids didn't need ASL, and ALL we needed is speech, speech and mainstream mainstream and more mainstream. Yes, I had SOME access to the hearing world.......SOME....that really wasn't enough. Yes, I had very decent spoken language, (high verbal IQ and socred 660 on verbal SATs without coaching!) but that did not and never has given me complete and total access to the hearing world.
 
deafdyke said:
jillo has never posted anything like that either. She is PRO full toolbox! She advocates for BOTH speech and ASL!
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Thank you. Anyone who reads my posts understands that. The problem is, there are posters who see what they want to see in order to have a target at which to direct their anger. It truly is a shame, as it gets in the way of productive discussions on how best to benefit the deaf child.
 
Tousi said:
By and large oral ONLY results in issues.
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Yes, it does. You have seen it, and the deaf community has verified such over and over and over. I see it on a daily basis. Psychological and emotional well being, socialization, and educational achievement are being sacrificed for the sake of oralism. It has been so for centuries. It continues today.
 
KristinaB said:
Well - all I can say is, she's been here 2 years longer than FJ and she has time between client most likely. Having worked with people in her profession, there is always time between clients. She probably spent a lot of time on AD at the beginning either getting info for herself and son, or helping others. She also has quite a few posts that are smilies and a few words here and there. I like having her here and value what she has to say, so it's all good in my opinion.
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Thank you.:ty: And you are correct. I have time in between clients, I have time in the evenings as my son is grown and my husband deceased. I do not have a young child that I am constantly working with to make her oral, nor do I claim to work 2 jobs and travel extensively.
 
deafdyke said:
And I wish there were more of you!!!! Seriously, I do think that if more parents were referred to adocates like you, people who understand that "yes deaf kids need speech and hearing, but it shouldn't come at the expense of using other tools in the toolbox."
then AG Bell and the oral programs would be struggling for funding.
Oral only assumes that a dhh kid will be able to access all the advantages of being hearing. It does not. Virtually all of the people raised orally, even thou they have access to the hearing world, and hearing and speaking still express a lot of issues and frustrations with being dhh!
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:ty: And I am always excited when I find a parent that really gets it and can see deafness not just as a lack of hearing, but a way of being that encompasses all areas of a child's life. Unfortunately, there are still the narrow minded few out there that poo-poo anything other than audist and oralist persepctives, usually because they have issues of their own that they refuse to deal with. With those, one ends up beating one's head against the wall. Unforunately, the kids are the ones that suffer. These parents that claim to be doing "oh so much" for their children's benefits are soothing their own conscious more than they are concerned for their children's well being. Time will make it so obvious that they will one day reach the point that they can no longer delude themselves. In the meantime, I suppose I should be grateful to them, because it results in greater job security for me. Fortunately, I take no pleasure in that. I would love nothing more than to see the day when deaf kids did not need an advocate or a therapist such as me.
 
Hi, I'm profoundly deaf, never learned ASL (but really want to) and my mother told me that when I was almost 4, around the time I got my first hearing aids, that I threw a lot of temper tantrums and had constant fits of rage - and this continued throughout elementary school. I am totally empathetic with your child - it's not easy being a deaf child trying to live in a hearing world, in a hearing family going to a hearing school. It's not easy to witness everyone communicating with ease when you are struggling so hard to fit in with them.
I'm really glad though that my parents did not opt for me to get Cochlear Implants - that should be my choice, not theirs. And for the record, I will be turning 40 soon and I still refuse to get CIs. And if I had deaf children, I would never make them get CIs. Hearing Aids and CIs will never be good enough substitute for ASL - i speak very well and people are often stunned to find out I'm profoundly deaf - which is not a compliment and in fact, makes my life even more difficult because they assume if I can speak that well, then I can hear that well and I can't! i'm still left out of conservatons at my own family's dinner table because I can't follow all those people talking at once. I have two teenaged sons and I can't follow their conversations at the table either and have to constantly remind them that I'm at the table too.
But I will tell you something, my mother was my rock growing up and it was of great comfort to have her love and support during those horrible years going to a hearing elementary school. Let your child have her temper tantrums and wait for her to calm down, give her big hugs and LISTEN to what she's trying to tell you. If you really want to know what it's like to be in her world, get some ear plugs and try to follow what everyone is saying at the table during supper time. Then you will know why she's so angry and frustrated.
 
jillio said:
Thank you.:ty: And you are correct. I have time in between clients, I have time in the evenings as my son is grown and my husband deceased. I do not have a young child that I am constantly working with to make her oral, nor do I claim to work 2 jobs and travel extensively.
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I work 2 jobs and I wish I can travel. :(
 
KristinaB said:
I do not remember seeing Shel post anything like that. As far as I know - she has been for the full toolbox approach. She and I were not given the option of learning ASL while growing up and would have greatly benefited from learning it early on.
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Yea, I wish I had ASL too. Oh well.
 
AlleyCat said:
That's what I was just saying in another thread. My ex-husband grew up without any ASL and he remarked often while we were married how much he wished he had known ASL growing up. He didn't learn it until after he left home.

I think his isolation and struggles to understand while growing up is what led to his self-esteem and rejection issues, which I think ultimately failed our marriage.
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And why do deaf children have to be put in those kinds of risks? For what?
 
jillio said:
:ty: And I am always excited when I find a parent that really gets it and can see deafness not just as a lack of hearing, but a way of being that encompasses all areas of a child's life. Unfortunately, there are still the narrow minded few out there that poo-poo anything other than audist and oralist persepctives, usually because they have issues of their own that they refuse to deal with. With those, one ends up beating one's head against the wall. Unforunately, the kids are the ones that suffer. These parents that claim to be doing "oh so much" for their children's benefits are soothing their own conscious more than they are concerned for their children's well being. Time will make it so obvious that they will one day reach the point that they can no longer delude themselves. In the meantime, I suppose I should be grateful to them, because it results in greater job security for me. Fortunately, I take no pleasure in that. I would love nothing more than to see the day when deaf kids did not need an advocate or a therapist such as me.
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I wish we had someone like you in Australia. I don't know of anyone who has this particular expertise like yours in dealing with deaf children in oral setting/mainstream etc. Many of these students graduate schools only to ask for a case manager from the deaf society.
 
Unfortunately, there are still the narrow minded few out there that poo-poo anything other than audist and oralist persepctives, usually because they have issues of their own that they refuse to deal with
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AMEN!!!! That is exactly why I think it needs to be mandated that after the dx of a disabilty, that parents go to see a pscyhologist who is experianced with helping parents to deal with and accept a child's disabilty.
A lot of the parents still seem to be "greiving" that they "lost" a "healthy normal" kid.
Granted that grief is understandable when talking about a kid with severe issues (ie severe or profound intelelctucal disabilties) But so many parents seem to totally buy into the "Oh if I can have my kid function just like someone who is "normal", they will be "normal"
I really think that all parents of dhh kids need to read that part in Deaf Like Me where the narrator expounds on " You must become normal"
Yes it takes a long long time to come to terms with a difference...I understand. Hell, it took ME YEARS and YEARS to come to terms with being hoh. Heck, when I was a teenager I chose ITEs to be more "normal" I even underwent surgery (canalplasty and eardrum reconstruction) when I was 17, to try to become hearing....and looking back I am HORRIFED I did that! I realize I just hadn't come to terms with the fact that I was hoh....and granted I prolly wouldn't if I'd been in Deaf Ed and had exposure to ASL and Deaf culture!
ALL disabilty is, is a difference. Does it REALLY matter that your son who is blind uses Braille to access info instead of large print or books on tape? Does it really matter that your daughter who has CP, uses a wheelchair part time? Does it really matter that your kid who's dhh signs as well as speaks as well as reads lips? Yet, there's a mentality with a lot of parents that "healthy normal functioning" is the ONLY good way.
Those parents don't realize that the disabilty functioning acutally provides a lot of freedom for the kid in SO many cases!
 
DeafCaroline said:
Hi, I'm profoundly deaf, never learned ASL (but really want to) and my mother told me that when I was almost 4, around the time I got my first hearing aids, that I threw a lot of temper tantrums and had constant fits of rage - and this continued throughout elementary school. I am totally empathetic with your child - it's not easy being a deaf child trying to live in a hearing world, in a hearing family going to a hearing school. It's not easy to witness everyone communicating with ease when you are struggling so hard to fit in with them.
I'm really glad though that my parents did not opt for me to get Cochlear Implants - that should be my choice, not theirs. And for the record, I will be turning 40 soon and I still refuse to get CIs. And if I had deaf children, I would never make them get CIs. Hearing Aids and CIs will never be good enough substitute for ASL - i speak very well and people are often stunned to find out I'm profoundly deaf - which is not a compliment and in fact, makes my life even more difficult because they assume if I can speak that well, then I can hear that well and I can't! i'm still left out of conservatons at my own family's dinner table because I can't follow all those people talking at once. I have two teenaged sons and I can't follow their conversations at the table either and have to constantly remind them that I'm at the table too.
But I will tell you something, my mother was my rock growing up and it was of great comfort to have her love and support during those horrible years going to a hearing elementary school. Let your child have her temper tantrums and wait for her to calm down, give her big hugs and LISTEN to what she's trying to tell you. If you really want to know what it's like to be in her world, get some ear plugs and try to follow what everyone is saying at the table during supper time. Then you will know why she's so angry and frustrated.
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Well said!
 
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