Can a good Muslim be a good American.

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rockdrummer

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I have friends from Muslim nations that are what I would consider to be good Americans. I came across this and found it interesting. I'll have to talk with some of my friends to see what their view on this is. What do you guys think?

This is something I've wondered about for some time now: How & why do the Muslims hate us & everyone else so much? Doesn't their God teach them to love?


Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

Pass it on, Fellow Americans.

The war is bigger than we know or understand.
 
I have no opinion or fact on this.

I have many Muslims here in Germany who consider to be German and open minded.
 
Yeah. Muslims seems nice people here, but overlook or have been aware they are premeditate and plots for the destruction of this nation, if they have power in this country just like been happening many other countries. There goal is destroying christians and the jews. It is awesome what we "see" of devout prayers several times a day, but in that prayer is for "Allah" to destroy those who are not muslim and also those who refuse to follow the muslim or part of them. Like the end time according to Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelations and other prophets. The question is the enemy of Holy God take power over this world, would it be Islamic behind it of it all? As what we ve been seeing what's going on about the temple in Jerusalem? That's ponder the thoughts.
 
I have no opinion or fact on this.

I have many Muslims here in Germany who consider to be German and open minded.
I have many good friends from Muslim countries. They are some of the kindest people that I know. Being from a Muslim coutry and being a faithful Muslim are two seperate issues. The question I aksed is weither a person (from any country) that holds true to the Muslim faith can be a good American. The people that are true Muslims have confilcts with some of the basic principles of freedoms. So perhaps it's like me as a Christian. I know I am a Christian but I don't live my life to the letter of the Bible. Hopefully that makes sense.
 
Have you seen the t.v. interview that Pastor John Hagee did with the former islamic terrorist Walid Shoebat.

This talks about the exact same thing on this thread, except much, much more in depth and much more clear.

That t.v. interview is a must see for all concerned Americans and yes, it is closed captioned.

It should be on TBN - Trinity Broadcasting Network

Look for the John Hagee and Walid Shoebat t.v. interview.
 
Do the Muslim's have a concept in their Quran similar to what Christians have in the Bible that says, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"? If they do, then they can become loyal Americans. If they don't, then . . . :dunno: ....
 
Do the Muslim's have a concept in their Quran similar to what Christians have in the Bible that says, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"? If they do, then they can become loyal Americans. If they don't, then . . . :dunno: ....
I can't speak for the Quran. I can only say that if the information I found and posted in #1 is true, then there appears to be a fundamental conflict. I would defer to someone who has more expertise on the Muslim religon to answer your question.
 
I have friends from Muslim nations that are what I would consider to be good Americans. I came across this and found it interesting. I'll have to talk with some of my friends to see what their view on this is. What do you guys think?

:bsflag:

Similar BS claims may be made about Roman Catholics, Christians, and other religious groups.

Furthermore the United States is SECULAR. There is no reference to any deity anywhere in the Constitution. Someone's religion (or lack of one) has no bearing on their ability to be a "good American" although these days a "good American" seems to be one that's hellbent on invading other countries.
 
:bsflag:

Similar BS claims may be made about Roman Catholics, Christians, and other religious groups.

Furthermore the United States is SECULAR. There is no reference to any deity anywhere in the Constitution. Someone's religion (or lack of one) has no bearing on their ability to be a "good American" although these days a "good American" seems to be one that's hellbent on invading other countries.
Well I am no expert on religon but felt that was thought provoking and decided to share it here. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I do see that you are not an American and also feel your hostility towards our country and it's current affairs abroad.
 
Even secular causing problem too. Babrbarians in early centuries are secular. Doesn't mater rleigion or non religion, both will cause problems. If nation without religion would become another Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
Well I am no expert on religon but felt that was thought provoking and decided to share it here. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I do see that you are not an American and also feel your hostility towards our country and it's current affairs abroad.

I am American but I live in the UK with my British wife.
 
I am American but I live in the UK with my British wife.
Thanks for the clearification. I based my comment on your profile. Bad assumption on my part. Either way I appreciate your honesty.
 
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Um, no? Allah is the same God that exists in Christianity and in Judaism. Allah is etymologically the same as the Hebrew word "El", which simply means "god". One of the Hebrew names of God, "Elohim", is the same word.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

No other religion is accepted by Christianity either.

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

What does one's religious views have to do with his or her capacity to be a good American, anyway?

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Religious Jews and some Christians pray facing Jerusalem three times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Canonical law in Christianity forbids Christians from making friends with Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Not all Muslim scholars advocate this. Claiming that they do is like claiming that all priests are pedophiles or all Jews are greedy--It's simply bad scholarship.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Islam doesn't instruct a man to marry for women; it places the limit at four. Moreover, Sharia law holds that a man must treat all of his wives equally, which means that each must have her own car, her own house and her own family. Practically speaking, thus, only one who is exceptionally wealthy can afford to have multiple wives. The Bible agrees with this notion, as we can recall that Jacob had children with four women throughout the course of his life.

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

The American Constitution is not based on Biblical principles. More bad scholarship.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic

For a person who wants America to be a Christian theocracy, this is a bold statement. The Qur'an does allow non-Muslims to live in Muslim lands, though whether or not that is followed is, as is the case in the US, up to the social whims of the majority culture.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

"One nation under God" is only a part of the Pledge of Allegiance since the 50s. It was not part of the original Pledge and should be stricken from the current one. Moreover, saying "one nation under God" does not imply love of any kind. It implies nothing more than making a statement that a god does exist.
 
Um, no? Allah is the same God that exists in Christianity and in Judaism. Allah is etymologically the same as the Hebrew word "El", which simply means "god". One of the Hebrew names of God, "Elohim", is the same word.
It doesn't matter if the word "Allah" means "El" or "god". The individual that the name represents is NOT the same.


No other religion is accepted by Christianity either.
But Christians don't advocate using violence to wipe them off the face of the earth.


What does one's religious views have to do with his or her capacity to be a good American, anyway?
Nothing, unless it creates a divided loyalty, or if it advocates behaviors that are subversive to our nation.


Religious Jews and some Christians pray facing Jerusalem three times a day.
But if push came to shove, and the two locations were at war with each other, which location would they defend? That's the question.


Canonical law in Christianity forbids Christians from making friends with Jews.
Our Christian church doesn't teach that. Which church does that?


Not all Muslim scholars advocate this. Claiming that they do is like claiming that all priests are pedophiles or all Jews are greedy--It's simply bad scholarship.
Not a valid comparison. If you want to compare apples to apples, you would have to say:

Not all Muslim scholars advocate this. Claiming that they do is like claiming the bishops order all priests to be pedophiles, or rabbis order all Jews to be greedy.

But that's not your point either. So the comparison would have to be:

Not all Muslim scholars advocate this. Claiming that they do is like claiming that bishops order all Catholics/Episcipalians/Orthodox to annihilate all others, or rabbis order all Jews to annilihate all others.

Have they?


Islam doesn't instruct a man to marry for women; it places the limit at four.
And when a Muslim lives in America, he must obey American law, which allows only one wife. No problem.

I'm curious about the car thing. I thought the women weren't allowed to drive, or go out unescorted? (Maybe that's just in Saudi Arabia.)


...The Bible agrees with this notion, as we can recall that Jacob had children with four women throughout the course of his life.
No, God did not support polygamy. The cultures of the biblical era and locations accepted polygamy. God did not. Patriarchs of the OT frequently disobeyed God in many ways, and polygamy was one example. If you notice, every instance of bigamy, polygamy, or infidelity in the Bible turns out bad. That's why God included those records in the Bible.


The American Constitution is not based on Biblical principles. More bad scholarship.
I think the fact that our Constitution is not based on Sharia or Quran is the sticking point. I don't know how strong a factor that is to most Muslims. :dunno:


...The Qur'an does allow non-Muslims to live in Muslim lands...
And while they live there, non-Muslims are expected to follow the law of the land.

Whosoever lives in America must follow American laws. If they do, fine. If not, then they suffer the consequences. No problem.


"One nation under God" is only a part of the Pledge of Allegiance since the 50s.
I don't know if he was referring specifically to the Pledge. That phrase and philosophy is also used elsewhere. In situations where it does refer to the Pledge, no one is required to say it.


...Moreover, saying "one nation under God" does not imply love of any kind. It implies nothing more than making a statement that a god does exist.
The phrase refers to the God of the Bible, Who is a loving, merciful God. The implication of the phrase is that we are one nation under the will and guidance of God. Whether or not all the population of this country believes or accepts that is moot. God continues to do His will whether or not the people here follow it. The phrase just states that there are many Americans who do acknowledge God's providence.

As to how that impacts Muslims, I guess it would be the same way it impacts atheists and anyone else who doesn't accept God's sovereignty.
 
Thank you Reba, I honestly could not have responded. What I put in my first post are not my words but something I found that I felt was thought provoking. I am not an expert on religions and I appreciate you responding.
 
It doesn't matter if the word "Allah" means "El" or "god". The individual that the name represents is NOT the same.

Wait, wait, wait. Are you claiming there's more than one god?

But Christians don't advocate using violence to wipe them off the face of the earth.

Some, such as Fred Phelps, do. That point is irrelevant however. If you want to make the charge that no other religions are acceptable under Islam, you'd better reform Christianity first, as otherwise your argument is a hypocritical.

But if push came to shove, and the two locations were at war with each other, which location would they defend? That's the question.

Indeed, therein is the rub. If the US and Saudi Arabia were at war, most American Muslims would support the US. The US and the Japanese were at war once too--You may recall that the Japanese community, in spite of its persecution by the government, continued to support the US.

Our Christian church doesn't teach that. Which church does that?

Canonical law is a Catholic thing, though is also followed culturally (even subconsciously) in Protestant churches too.

But that's not your point either.

You missed my point. But that was to be expected. You're not one to advocate critical thinking.

And when a Muslim lives in America, he must obey American law, which allows only one wife. No problem.

Indeed.

I'm curious about the car thing. I thought the women weren't allowed to drive, or go out unescorted? (Maybe that's just in Saudi Arabia.)

It varies from country to country, just like things vary in the West. There are some super-traditional countries and some more liberal ones.

I think the fact that our Constitution is not based on Sharia or Quran is the sticking point. I don't know how strong a factor that is to most Muslims. :dunno:

It's not important to the Muslims that do live here at least. I'm happy that it's not based on the Qur'an just as much as I am happy it's not based on the Bible. We're more free if we give ourselves the autonomy to make decisions rather than giving any particular religion political power.

And while they live there, non-Muslims are expected to follow the law of the land.

Whosoever lives in America must follow American laws. If they do, fine. If not, then they suffer the consequences. No problem.

I don't think we really disagree on this point.

I don't know if he was referring specifically to the Pledge. That phrase and philosophy is also used elsewhere. In situations where it does refer to the Pledge, no one is required to say it.

Perhaps no one is required to say it, but if Congress inserts a respect of an establishment of religion (in this case theism) into the Pledge, as it did in the 50s, it is acting outside of its Constitutional powers.
 
Wait, wait, wait. Are you claiming there's more than one god?
I should probaby not get in the middle of you two but I'll try to answer that one. To Muslims Allah is God. Do you think Allah is the same God that Christians worshop? If not then you have answered your own question. God is a matter of perspective. God by definition can fall into several catagories. See below and decide for yourself.

God
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler
 
Wait, wait, wait. Are you claiming there's more than one god?
One God. Many "gods".


Some, such as Fred Phelps, do. That point is irrelevant however. If you want to make the charge that no other religions are acceptable under Islam, you'd better reform Christianity first, as otherwise your argument is a hypocritical.
You didn't read my response carefully.

Christians believe Jesus is the only way to God and salvation. We don't believe that non-believers should be enslaved or killed off.


Indeed, therein is the rub. If the US and Saudi Arabia were at war, most American Muslims would support the US. The US and the Japanese were at war once too--You may recall that the Japanese community, in spite of its persecution by the government, continued to support the US.
"Most" American Muslims; not all?

"Japanese" is not a religion, and "Muslim" is not a nationality or race.

Of course, it is always an individual decision, regardless.


Canonical law is a Catholic thing, though is also followed culturally (even subconsciously) in Protestant churches too.
Baptist churches don't follow that. We don't have any "law" against Jews.


You missed my point. But that was to be expected. You're not one to advocate critical thinking.
Of course not. :rofl:
 
Looking at what happens in Lebanon and Iraqi as well as Iran plus other middle eastern countries. among muslims, there is bound to be a sectarian violence in USA in the future.

Now, you have the answer to the question shown in the topic title.

JIMHO
 
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