Any Vegan/Vegetarians Out There?

Anybody got any ideas about a soup with a milk broth? We make these German drop type noodles that are cut off the side of a plate. They are made with egg, flour and water. They are cut off into a broth of milk with melted butter and black pepper. I was going to try rice milk, but I'm not sure it will work. I don't like the flavor of soy milk and I think the almond milk with have a different taste than what I want. Also, I would need a lot of it. For my family, it would be about just less than a gallon of milk.
 
i am wondering.....if you stop eat real meat then how your body still is get nutrient and important vitamin from inside meat???? and how is stop eating meat make your skin change....will it be better and smooth?
 
i am wondering.....if you stop eat real meat then how your body still is get nutrient and important vitamin from inside meat???? and how is stop eating meat make your skin change....will it be better and smooth?

You can get the proteins and nutrients from a lot of other sources like vegetables and eggs as well as tofu. Since I have gone vegetarian and trying to go vegan, my skin no longer breaks out with blemishes at all.
 
@Kristina - have you tried other nut milks such as cashew? It is very rich. You could also try blending milks for your taste. : ) You can also use "oat" milk. It is a blend of cooked and blended oats and water. Rich and yum.
 
@Kristina - have you tried other nut milks such as cashew? It is very rich. You could also try blending milks for your taste. : ) You can also use "oat" milk. It is a blend of cooked and blended oats and water. Rich and yum.

I guess I need to see if I can find those. Lack of funds has kept me from Whole Foods this last 3 weeks. I'm due for a trip next week.
 
Hello,

I've been vegetarian since Thanksgiving '93, and vegan for close to 13 of these years (continuously vegan since March 2004). I worked for Feeling Fit For Life (yes the company that bought the right to the name of the book). It was also known as Life Science Institute. The old Natural Hygiene crowd will know of it and its history.

I have gone through the typical progression of self-awareness. At first, in 1984, I came across the book, "There IS a Cure for Arthritis." I was two months from starting my senior in high school and looking for something to do at the house, and the book happened to be laying about. There are mistakes in the Naturopathy approach to better health, but it was the trigger point that made me realize that I needed to start watching what I was doing and its impact on my health as a consequence.

It wasn't until about early 1993 that I was recommended the book Fit For Life. I read it once, didn't understand it, and then I got it when I read it again months later, while being chained to the bathroom because of digestive problems and mild weight gain. Up to this point, I had done things like not take medicine, eat better quality meats, cheeses, etc. like you would buy from a 80s-90s small-health-food-store place until I learned about Whole Foods Market in the next city over. Reading that book was another flash point. Prior to this, I had been working for a company not related to Fit For Life for several years, and there was a vegetarian in my department. My last meat meal 18 years ago was venison for T-Day, at my Dad's house. I went vegetarian after this day.

I read the book a few more times and discovered that Life Science Institute was listed in it. I contacted them about their Natural Hygiene Course, made a visit there in Austin, and a few months later, while I was studying it, I quit my job at Lockheed and moved to Austin to work for them. I was certified by them as a Natural Hygiene educator in January 1995. Around that time, I went vegan the first time. I had tried for 15 months to go vegan, BUT the killer was cheese. I remember the days when I would stop by Cici's on the way home or for lunch and just DEVOUR the buffet. I was able to avoid the meat options, but I COULD NOT let go of the dairy. It was HARD. The second time, after falling off, took me near five years to go vegan again. Anyway, the company didn't last because of mismanagement and falling off the intended path. I went to grad school nearly a year before it failed.

So, I have been continuously vegan since 2004, as I mentioned, BUT I was starting to experience some of the common problems that older vegetarians experience, like a vision problem made worse, and aching in my elbows. I've had to go back to my readings on my Natural Hygiene to realize that yes, I know I shouldn't be doing salt, sugar, oils, etc. It's like a favorite salad dressing I was using on my salads in the day. Whenever I ate large amounts of it on my salads, I would get the aching in my elbows. When I dropped the dressing and found something else to eat, it would go away, so I repeated this several times as part of my life-long experiment to understand things. Sure enough, that's what it was. I experienced similar results with corn and wheat products.

A few years ago, I reconnected with some of the old Natural Hygiene people online (instead of through snail mail) and found another group I had never been in contact with, a very small group even within just the vegan group. It's very small because the vast majority of this already-small group of vegans are Low-Fat-Cooked-Vegan or High-Protein-Cooked-Vegan.

The group I'm referring to is Low-Fat-Raw-Vegan. What is LFRV? Well, it's basically no animal products, no cooked foods, seasonings, supplements. Simply put, it is mainly fruit (90%), some veggies (~7%), and some fat (~3%, normally what is found in fruits and veggies, with few meals in overts like avocados, nuts, and seeds). Some also do the 8-1-1 angle on this. The point is, no cooked foods. But to do it right means mainly organic produce, and a lot of it.

What I'm trying to share here is the progression from waking up to the fact that there is a problem with the medical system, to trying to eat more healthfully (though misguided), to going vegetarian and finding substitutes for animal products (again, misguided), to going vegan but still cooked foods (again misguided), and learning that my problems go away when I go LFRV. LFRV is viewed by this group as the end-stage of the progression of awareness as your body continues to reject more strenuously smaller and smaller amounts of processed foods until finally you're getting closer to a more natural dietary. The foods and recipes being suggested here are merely transitional foods; i.e., eventually, you'll have to stop eating them as you continue to develop health problems because you share some common characteristics with SAD eaters (Standard American Diet). These characteristics are salt, oils, refined sugars, the act of cooking and its deranging effects on food, and foods that are not appropriate to the human dietary. These characteristics just slow down your rate of damage to the body relative to SAD rates.

It is extremely hard for me to do LFRV for long periods (the longest I have gone is 59 days) because of stress factors - I work at a difficult job, and it just makes me want to eat my feelings, like starving vampires trapped in Alaska during the summer (the sun, dammit, the sun!). I have been learning, along with the LFRV crowd, that we are very emotional eaters because of our addictions and how our feelings are tangled up in what we eat.

For example, when I think of mexican food, I think of the friends back home, living with my Dad (who passed away in 2000), the old ways of friendship that I don't see anymore. Italian food - I think of my Mom's spaghetti dinners with medium-rare meat balls (Mom passed away in '98). Snacks - I think of fun things I did as a teenager without the clutter of responsibility in my mind today. Buttered flour tortillas warmed over the stove or grilled cheese sandwiches - I think of the loneliness I felt in grade school when I couldn't see Mom living two hours away and dealing with a rough relationship with my stepmother. What we have come to understand is that we have to learn to handle our emotions that cause us to be driven to eat such foods even though we know perfectly well they are not good for us and cause us health problems. These days, I swing back and forth between Low-Fat-Cooked Vegan and LFRV as I continue on working out the emotions in my life.

This is the original source of Natural Hygiene that I learned from - Raw Food Living|Raw Food Diet & Recipes|Organic Raw Foods - the original books spanned I think 15-17 volumes running at least 1,300 pages. This is a LONG read. To get back to the table of contents, remember to click on Site Map.

What is wrong with cooking oils or salad oils - keep in mind that there is an animal product slant to this article, but just look at what is up with refined vegetable oils and the poison it really is - The Oiling of America

And, if you want to interact directly with people learning about LFRV, I suggest going here - Raw Natural Hygiene - most of the active forum discussions are happening in the Chatter Box.

Now, here is a real cool article about archaeology being applied to health studies. It explains the fact that "modern diseases" are not really all that modern. Have fun with it - McDougall Newsletter: May 2011 - The Egyptian Mummy Paradox
 
It's pretty simple to make. The hardest part is finding unsalted nuts - but duh - you do have wholefoods!! ha !

Oat milk is when you make regular oatmeal, very, very watery. Cook it gently till broth is thick. Cool, blend, strain - there ya go! Taste it. Some folks like it lightly salted, mixed with rice or almond milk. I think rice or almond milk is better for sweeties. This oat "milk" is sort of like making soy milk for tofu. Dont forget that the oat residue is awesome in bread or old style "cake" recipes.
 
Does anyone know how to make the little tofu pockets for inari sushi? I have seen them offered for sale but never a recipe for them. Is it very difficult I wonder?
Also, does anyone have a good, easy recipe for the sesame vinegar seaweed known often as seaweed salad?
 
hence... my Post #83

most of people I have encountered who converted to vegetarians/vegans solely based on "Poor Bambi" sympathy have comical reasoning for their stance against meat. very comical.

It depends on where they're coming from. I come primarily from the scientific side, but later on the animal rights side came into the picture. I also come from having been a hunter, responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths during that time. I have had nightmares about my action's effects on the victim's families, mates, and friends. I think about this. Every day...

Now, I don't mean to negate the fact that people throughout history found themselves in hostile environments, i.e. fruits and veggies can't grow year 'round in northern and southern hemispheres far enough away from the equatorial regions, or there isn't enough or any to be found in those regions, so you have to eat something in the meantime.

However, it is my hope that our natural characteristics will eventually guide us to redistribute our farm lands to the proper places and growing the appropriate foods intended for our dietary. Right now, we have too much capital, resources, and human effort allocated to growing the wrong kinds of foods in some hostile climates. It is already beginning to change as people like yourselves become more aware of food and how it impacts us. Do not stop what you are doing. Keep on your journey to better health. It is a time of climbing out of the centuries of darkness that has been our lot. It is time to learn of our potential and live up to it.
 
PFH's saying that you cannot judge what animals eat based on their teeth. You'll have to look at species's blood type because it's what metabolizes the food.

Just because my teeth shows that I can eat both animal and plant does not mean I can eat same plant as panda bear. and cow cannot eat corn like me.

You missed a crucial step. To say that the blood metabolizes the food is to say that we have blood in our GI tract. No. It is the digestive organs and how they are organized that determines our abilities and suitability of certain foods. The teeth are secondary - how are you going to benefit from eating something if your body is not designed to digest it and release the needed nutrients so the GI tract can absorb them?

Go to this link Physiology Of Digestion - The Physiological Determinants Of The Optimum Diet
 
i am wondering.....if you stop eat real meat then how your body still is get nutrient and important vitamin from inside meat???? and how is stop eating meat make your skin change....will it be better and smooth?

Here's the thing. You DON'T. There are toxins in every cell, and when the body dies, the whole thing becomes toxic. Even when it's alive, there's waste being transported out of the cells into the interstitial fluids that make it possible for nutrients to be carried to the cells that need them. You are eating that waste suspended at the time of death. Did you know that nitrates are used in meat processing to keep it from turning gray at the market? Nitrates hide the true state of dead meat. The second part here is, when you cook it, you have heat-sensitive amino acids (which form the structure of protein) that become fused together. The enzymes that you secrete to break down proteins are not able to break this fused bond. If you had eaten it raw, you might have had a better chance of making use of the heat-sensitive amino acids. Instead, it either passes out the GI tract or gets absorbed into the body as waste material floating around. Ditto for albumin in eggs.

Instead of trying to get protein from animal sources, get them from fruits and veggies. Read this THOROUGHLY!! Proteins - Introduction

One thing I ought to mention right off the bat in case it's not obvious from the lesson on proteins. You will find amino acids in your fruits and veggies in a ready-to-be-absorbed state as opposed to still-digestible portions of meat. With meat, you have to break it all the way down to a simplified form that can pass through the GI tract walls. There is a net energy cost of doing this (never mind that there is no energy to be gained from meat, net-net). Instead of expending this energy to bring the protein to this level, you could save this energy and absorb from plant foods the available amino acids with minimal digestion required for the little complete proteins found in it.

The amino acids are the key to making sure you have enough protein. But don't worry, as you do not have the same need for protein on a body-weight percentage basis, like that of a baby growing up as fast as the potential allows for. Consider the protein needs of a baby. Proteins - Why We Need Protein
 
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Is anyone familiar with Joel Furhman, "3 Steps to Better Eating" or something like that? There was a program on PBS with him the other day. Seemed like an hour-long commercial for his system.

He emphasised high nutrient-dense, low calorie, cooking, but didn't exactly explain what that meant. Is he famous in vegetarian circles? Is his plan vegetarian or vegan? Or just sorta/kinda vegetarian?

I think I could be a sorta/kinda vegetarian (i.e., include a lot more fruits, veggies, whole grains), but I'm not ready to completely give up seafood, and dairy, and a little red meat from time to time. But I would like to incorporate more vegetarian recipes, several days a week, anyway.
 
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Hello,

What is wrong with cooking oils or salad oils - keep in mind that there is an animal product slant to this article, but just look at what is up with refined vegetable oils and the poison it really is - The Oiling of America

Did you know those authors on oils have anti-vegan/vegetarian agenda? I agree with them on many things, but I do have a problem with their attitudes that they push their agenda, that is over the line. Both authors also were in the documentary video, Fathead.

Now, here is a real cool article about archaeology being applied to health studies. It explains the fact that "modern diseases" are not really all that modern. Have fun with it - McDougall Newsletter: May 2011 - The Egyptian Mummy Paradox

There are many things in Dr. McDougall's article I want to talk about, but it would take forever. Anyway, There are two things from Dr.McDougall's link I want to comment on-

"When the hairs from Egyptian mummies are compared to those of modern people eating the Western diet the composition is the same, showing they both ate similar diets. (The same kind of hair analysis in this study determined that the Ice Man, preserved in a glacier of the Oetztaler Alps 5200 years ago, was essentially vegan.)"

I would like to hear Dr. McDougall's new thoughts now that it recently has been shown that Otzi the Iceman had 3 gallstones. His arteries were full of fatty deposits, indicating his diet may have been rich in animal products.
"The Tarahumara people, indigenous to northwestern Mexico, live primarily on corn, beans, and squash with very few animal foods and are free of atherosclerosis, obesity, and other modern diseases."

I wish Dr. McDougall would elaborate further on the Tarahumara people's traditional methods on processing corn or maize. Tarahumara people do not eat corn on the cob directly. They soak and lime (alkaline) their corn, releasing nutrients like niacin. Lime is not a citrus fruit. It is a mineral. They also have pigs, and often use lard as butter or oil to cook their meals. I've been to Chinhuahua before, and pork is extremely popular down there. All Mexican tribes and Mexicans currently nixtamalize maize as well. If you go to the Hispanic section, and take a look at corn tortillas on the back that indicates "treated with lime", then you will know that it is processed traditionally. I do have a problem with corn torillas with additives. Bleh. That's why many Mexicans purchase masa harina, which is so affordable to make corn tortillas. It only takes 10 minutes to make them easily. Commercial cornmeal products are bad, and have anti-nutrients indicating that they are never processed traditionally the way masa products are processed traditionally. Masa products are far safe than commercial cornmeal products. Tarahumara people also do soak and boil beans traditionally.
 
Did you know those authors on oils have anti-vegan/vegetarian agenda? I agree with them on many things, but I do have a problem with their attitudes that they push their agenda, that is over the line. Both authors also were in the documentary video, Fathead.

What do you think I said in my post? They have an animal product slant to the article. What do you think that means?

There are many things in Dr. McDougall's article I want to talk about, but it would take forever. Anyway, There are two things from Dr.McDougall's link I want to comment on-

I would like to hear Dr. McDougall's new thoughts now that it recently has been shown that Otzi the Iceman had 3 gallstones. His arteries were full of fatty deposits, indicating his diet may have been rich in animal products.

I wish Dr. McDougall would elaborate further on the Tarahumara people's traditional methods on processing corn or maize. Tarahumara people do not eat corn on the cob directly. They soak and lime (alkaline) their corn, releasing nutrients like niacin. Lime is not a citrus fruit. <snip>

Point #1 - He would say, "Well, that's indicative of the climate and part of the world he lived in. You can't grow fruits and veggies year-'round in the Ötztal Alps (Central Alps of Europe). There isn't much you can grow there long enough to harvest crops at the altitudes. You are limited to what can grow to ripeness within a few months. The latitude is similar to the States along the Canadian Border. The temperatures are too cold and the sunlight is not strong enough nor long enough in the year to have near the growing season that places in the tropics or even the subtropics have. If you found yourself living there, those are the foods you would have to eat there."

It's much easier to hunt animals and cook over a fire than it is to organize 30-100 people and get them to work together long enough to produce a ripe crop. It only takes two people to bring down an animal - one to make and teach how to use weapons, and the other to do the killing.

Point #2 - It is indeed possible that Otzi may have eaten meat at some point in his life, but the food he ate at the time near his death may have been all he could find at the time. You have to keep in mind that often, people who suffer from celiac disease often have gallstones. The second part of this is the article says that his dietary was "essentially vegan" - there may have been small amounts of animal fat along the way or eating lots of nuts and other vegetables with high fat levels, accounting for fatty deposits in his arteries. What CAN make it worse is the presence of inorganic minerals from drinking water with such minerals in them. This can lead to kidney stone and gallstone formation as well.

I have found through personal experience that both animal fat and plant fat (from nuts and avocados) can create similar problems in the body, especially when it comes to insulin resistance in the bloodstream that prevents insulin from binding to glucose so that it can be brought to the cells that need it throughout the body. I learned about the animal fat part when I was trying to go vegan in the very beginning, and now I'm finding out the same to be true for plant fat when I'm trying to get away from cooked foods with oil in them.

Please note that it was found that because of Otzi's high-grain, high-carbohydrate (starchy vegetables as found in the subtropics and further north), he had significant dental deterioration. Also, the clothes he was wearing seems to indicate that it was very cold at the time. Chances are that animals were in hibernation with some exceptions, so it might not have been as easy to hunt in the winter as it would be in the spring when animals are out and about and in heat.

Point #3 - Lime. Lime is a fruit. It's green, maybe a little smaller than a lemon. I'm not sure why you're bringing up limes and liming food.
 
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What do you think I said in my post? They have an animal product slant to the article. What do you think that means?



Point #1 - He would say, "Well, that's indicative of the climate and part of the world he lived in. You can't grow fruits and veggies year-'round in the Ötztal Alps (Central Alps of Europe). There isn't much you can grow there long enough to harvest crops at the altitudes. You are limited to what can grow to ripeness within a few months. The latitude is similar to the States along the Canadian Border. The temperatures are too cold and the sunlight nor strong enough nor long enough in the year to have near the growing season that places in the tropics or even the subtropics have. If you found yourself living there, those are the foods you would have to eat there."

It's much easier to hunt animals and cook over a fire than it is to organize 30-100 people and get them to work together long enough to produce a ripe crop. It only takes two people to bring down an animal - one to make and teach how to use weapons, and the other to do the killing.

Point #2 - It is indeed possible that Otzi may have eaten meat at some point in his life, but the food he ate at the time near his death may have been all he could find at the time. You have to keep in mind that often, people who suffer from celiac disease often have gallstones. The second part of this is the article says that his dietary was "essentially vegan" - there may have been small amounts of animal fat along the way or eating lots of nuts and other vegetables with high fat levels, accounting for fatty deposits in his arteries. What CAN make it worse is the presence of inorganic minerals from drinking water with such minerals in them. This can lead to kidney stone and gallstone formation as well.

I have found through personal experience that both animal fat and plant fat (from nuts and avocados) can create similar problems in the body, especially when it comes to insulin resistance in the bloodstream that prevents insulin from binding to glucose so that it can be brought to the cells that need it throughout the body. I learned about the animal fat part when I was trying to go vegan in the very beginning, and now I'm finding out the same to be true for plant fat when I'm trying to get away from cooked foods with oil in them.

Please note that it was found that because of his high-grain, high-carbohydrate (starchy vegetables as found in the subtropics and further north), he had significant dental deterioration. Also, the clothes he was wearing seems to indicate that it was very cold at the time. Chances are that animals were in hibernation with some exceptions, so it might not have been as easy to hunt in the winter as it would be in the spring when animals are out and about and in heat.

Point #3 - Lime. Lime is a fruit. It's green, maybe a little smaller than a lemon. I'm not sure why you're bringing up limes and liming food.

"Liming food" refers to the chemical lime, not the green fruit.

http://www.tecomate.com/articles/Get_the_Lime_Out.pdf
 
Working hard to going back to vegan. Had issues with a family not being very supportive.
 
Found this recipe online, but can't remember which website. Made it today and it's not too bad.

Vegan "Parmesan" cheese substitute

3/4 C blanched almonds (I used slivered blanched almonds)
1/4 C sesame seeds (I did not have these)
1/3 C nutritional yeast
3/4 t salt (I used 1/4 t as hubby is on a low sodium diet)
1/2 t onion powder
1/4 t garlic powder

Blend all ingredients in a blender until there are no more noticeable nut pieces. Store in an airtight container in the fridge. Recycling a used Parmesan cheese container works great. May adjust nuts and yeast according to taste.
 
Yeast in any form is really bad for gout. Not that I am thinking of becoming a vegan...

It's just one of the interesting facts I have learned since being diagnosed, and I had to tell someone! :P
 
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