A hate crime....

Reba said:
Did you not read my post? I said that I don't doubt their anecdotes. I've also many times posted that Christians are not infallible, and that individual Christians do bad things, etc. I've never said that no Christians are involved in bad actions.


Are you saying that the majority of Americans have been involved in doing evil in the history of America?

I'm glad that you at least called them "so-called" Christians. :)
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I am talking about proportions of bigoted crimes. There have been far more violence committed against blacks because of their skin colour than there have been against whites because of their skin colour.
 
Reba said:
They weren't charged with assault? That's wrong.

Hate isn't a crime. Assault is a crime.

Feelings aren't a crime. Actions are a crime.

(I believe hate is a sin with its own repercussions but that's another topic.)
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When assault is committed for no reason other than hate, it is a hate crime.
 
jillio said:
There are consequences to everything.:lol: But in this case, they were a bit distorted. He tried to use a "slippery slope" argument.
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True, but I have seen members become infuriated at criticism of Israel and cry "Antisemitism!"
 
DeafCaroline said:
I am talking about proportions of bigoted crimes. There have been far more violence committed against blacks because of their skin colour than there have been against whites because of their skin colour.
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And women because of their gender, and GLTB persons because of their sexual orientation, and biracial people because they are biracial, and children because of their status, and on, and on, and on.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Nice evasion.
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How is the truth evasive?

Anyone making any kind of accusation should be expected to back it up with facts. Otherwise, it's just slander and defamation.

Can any of us make any kind of accusation about a group of people here without proof?

What if I accused "the Deaf population" or "the gay population" or "the black population" of something? Would everyone just let that float by as fact?
 
I may be going a bit out on a limb here, but I think what Reba is trying to say is that you cannot prove that a crime was hate based.

And to an extent, I can agree that there are clearly times when a crime take place it's not always clear if it's a hate crime or not. Sometimes it looks like a hate crime, but was actually just a crime of opportunity. But also sometimes it so blatantly obvious that no one can possibly not know the crime was motivated by hate.
 
Beowulf said:
True, but I have seen members become infuriated at criticism of Israel and cry "Antisemetism!"
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Then that's their problem if they confuse criticism of actions with criticism of the religion of the person committing the action.
 
Cheetah said:
I may be going a bit out on a limb here, but I think what Reba is trying to say is that you cannot prove that a crime was hate based.

And to an extent, I can agree that there are clearly times when a crime take place it's not always clear if it's a hate crime or not. Sometimes it looks like a hate crime, but was actually just a crime of opportunity. But also sometimes it so blatantly obvious that no one can possibly not know the crime was motivated by hate.
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If there are no other precipitating factors, it is pretty clear.
 
deafskeptic said:
Maybe it's in their interest not to understand. I believe Kissenger (sp?) said something similar.
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Of course. To see is to admit a priviledged position in this society. No one wants to admit to that priviledge, neither do they want to give it up.:cool2:
 
Reba said:
Your Iraq veteran friends' stories prove this?

"the Christian population in this country perpetrates more hatred toward others than any other group"

I'm not doubting anyone's anecdotes but that's not the same as making such an inflammatory statement that includes an entire population.

If they've taken an actual count of all hatred towards of others, and taken an actual survey of which group each hater belonged to, and compared them, then there might be some basis. Otherwise, it's a statement pulled out of the air (or some other nether region).
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So, it is not okay to make inflammatory statements about Christians, but it is okay for Christians to make inflammatory statements regarding marginalized populations? I see.
 
Reba said:
How is the truth evasive?

Anyone making any kind of accusation should be expected to back it up with facts. Otherwise, it's just slander and defamation.

Can any of us make any kind of accusation about a group of people here without proof?

What if I accused "the Deaf population" or "the gay population" or "the black population" of something? Would everyone just let that float by as fact?
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depends what you are accusing them of.

It all comes down to math. Just look at what white Americans have done in the history of America, since its founding...particularly in terms of violence towards minorities and Jews.

Most of those white Americans considered themselves Christians. We don't need to provide proof, one only needs common sense and a good education of American history to see that indeed, this is so.
 
jillio said:
He had a concussion from being stomped in the head, and was very bruised up for some time. All because of hate.
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Stupid, absolutely stupid. I blame the parents. Our children's value system always starts with the parents.
 
jillio said:
When assault is committed for no reason other than hate, it is a hate crime.
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It is the assault that is the crime, not the emotion of hate.

Person A can hate Person B with all his heart and mind. Is that a crime? No.

Person A beats up Person B with a baseball bat. Is that a crime? Yes.

If there is no hate crimes law in place, will the beating still be a crime? Yes.

When assault is committed for any reason or no reason at all, it's still a crime.
 
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