5 year old HOH boy - oral only or "mainstreaming"

[lkzoo]

My son is HOH with normal hearing to 1000 Hz and then moderate to severe/profound loss from 2000-4000 Hz. He is 5 years old and has always been very verbal. We found out about his hearing loss when he turned 3 (he had normal hearing at birth), and we put him in a total approach preschool class at a state-funded DHH school. He has flourished in this setting and absolutely loves school. His preferred mode of commuincation is speech and his articulation has cleared up a lot. Even though he never stops talking, he does know sign language very well. In fact, his teachers call him "the sign language detective." At his prompting, at home, we look up all types of words in our ASL dictionary, although he just doesn't use them while communicating. His teachers obviously sign with him all day long, and I sign with him at home, but we all have to actually ask him to sign something to us. He is a very happy and bright boy, and thinks his hearing aids are the coolest things in the world - he calls them his "super ears."

Due to funding issues, the school is no longer available. The only option left in our state is to "mainstream" him into a regular classroom without a signing interpreter and no specialized "deaf education" (Yes, we've been dealing with our EIP/IDEA - long story but the resources just aren't available). At this point, to get anything else, we will have to move out of state.

I wanted to put as much info about him as I could before asking this question: We have been approached by some family members for assistance in moving to a state where there is an excellent oral only school. While it is an incredible opportunity in some ways, and he doesn't rely on sign to communicate himself, I find it hard to believe access to sign language hasn't helped clear things up for him while learning. He is also an EXCELLENT lip reader, but I know how much it helps clear things up between us at home when I sign to him. With a kid that already is so verbal and although knows sign language, doesn't use it, would an oral only school be a good decision?

His teachers believe he would do well in either the oral only school out of state or being "mainstreamed" into the public school system where we live. Either way, he won't get signing in school up here unless something changes by next year with state funding. I would continue to expose him to sign outside of school because I really believe in it and want him to remain a part of the DHH community.

Any input would help. Thanks

 

[deafdyke]

WOW!!!! I want to commend you on how you've raised your kid so far! Way to go!!!!!! Wish more parents chose a "let's expose our child to both, and see which mode (s) they perfer" way.

The only option left in our state is to "mainstream" him into a regular classroom without a signing interpreter and no specialized "deaf education"

No 'terp?!?!? That is a tough choice. I know that there's a significent percentage of orally trained kids who still need to use 'terps in the classroom setting.

With a kid that already is so verbal and although knows sign language, doesn't use it, would an oral only school be a good decision?

That's a tough one........Is his language significently delayed? Is the oral school OK with academics? Some oral schools' academics aren't exactly the best in the world b/c they hyperfocus on aquiring language, rather then actual academics. The only upside to going to an oral school is that he could get services from teachers who are familiar with teaching dhh kids. (that's one HUGE problem with public schools. Even sped teachers might not be familiar with teaching dhh or otherwise classicly disabled kids) Also he would be able to benifit from seeing a speech therapist who specializes in dhh kids.

His teachers believe he would do well in either the oral only school out of state or being "mainstreamed" into the public school system where we live.

That's a good sign. Is there any way you can have him be tested by an educational psych who is familiar with testing dhh kids? They might be able to offer some suggestions as to placement. Oh, also......are there any magnet school programs in your area? I know in some states there are schools that act as a "magnet" for dhh kids. It's not nessarily a formal program.....just a way to attract a population of dhh kids.

Either way, he won't get signing in school up here unless something changes by next year with state funding. I would continue to expose him to sign outside of school because I really believe in it and want him to remain a part of the DHH community.

Excellent! I believe that mainstreaming can work, as long as the parent makes sure that they take advantage of extracurricular oppertunties for dhh kids. Are you a member of the American Society for Deaf Children?
American Society for Deaf Children
Their listserv is also wicked good too: Archives of PARENTDEAF-HH@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU
Also Hands and Voices : Hands & Voices
They have a new messageboard which is REALLY good....has a lot more parents! Hands & Voices Bulletin Board :: Index
Hope I've helped you!

 

[lkzoo]

5 year old HOH boy

Thanks. My husband and I just thought it made the most sense to provide our son every opportunity to be able to communicate. I think to decide for someone else how they will best communicate makes it harder on them. Who knows which communication technique(s) are going to work for each individual person. We have seen, first-hand at home, the benefits of sign language even for a little HOH kid that talks, talks, talks. I think my biggest concern is not having any interpreters available to him.

Is his language significently delayed? Is the oral school OK with academics?

His language delay is no longer significant. He is almost to where he needs to be re language for a five year old. He still has some catching up to do with concepts, but he is really doing well. He has no learning disabilities or delays outside of issues surrounding his hearing loss.

Is there any way you can have him be tested by an educational psych who is familiar with testing dhh kids? .... Oh, also......are there any magnet school programs in your area?

The oral school out of state has an independent two-day testing program for HDD kids. They said that it would at least give us a baseline for where our son is, as well as letting us know how he is processing the information in school. My husband and I are thinking that, at a minimum, we should go down for those tests. There are no resources like that where we presently live, nor is there any type of magnet school programs.

Are you a member of the American Society for Deaf Children?

We aren't, but I will definitely look into joining. We are involved locally in DHH programs but haven't done anything regional.

Thanks so much for the input and for the links. It did really help. He's such a great kid, and we want to provide him every opportunity to have a great life.

 

[Lantana]

From what I have heard about "mainstream" interpreters, there is alot there to be desired!

And from my own experience, I feel that your child would do great in an oral school situation as long as you keep using Sign at home and expose him to other deaf children who Sign. When he becomes older, he, himself can choose the route he wants to follow. I have seen this happen over and over again (and the child usually chooses the Sign method in the end because of the social aspect).

You must be commended on your strong efforts. Are there other children in your family? It would not be right nor appropriate to concentrate all of your efforts on the one (deaf) child.

 

[lkzoo]

Thank you for your post. We are trying to sort this all out, and every bit of information helps. As I said before, I am a strong supporter of signing, as we have seen how much it has helped our son even though he is so verbal, and it is good to hear from someone with personal experience in an all oral setting. If we chose this route, it is nice to know that our continued support of sign outside of the classroom through our home life and his extra-curricular life would provide a well-rounded foundation for him.

We do have an older son (7 years old), and we have been careful to pay equal amounts of attention to him. He wears glasses and we actually call them his "super eyes" to match his brother's "super ears." They both think they are "super heroes" and are the best of friends. I honestly believe that neither one feels like the other gets more attention. We have checked into the public school system for our 7 year old in the state where the oral school is, and it has some of the best schools in the country, so we would be safe in that area.

We have tried to be diligent about raising self-confident, independent children in a home full of love, praise and fun. We have the same set of rules for both of them (which is why the signing helps so much with our HOH boy), and I believe that has really made them feel like equals within the family. While some people may disagree, we feel like our younger son would not benefit from our expectation of any less of a standard of behavior from him than our older son, despite any communication difficulties he may have (again why signing really helps with clarification). In turn, our older son doesn't feel like his younger brother is getting any special treatment. Both boys have the opportunity to rise the the expectations set for them and, ultimately, feel good about themselves for meeting and often exceeding those expectations.

I feel like I've rambled on a bit, so I'll end. Thank you again for your input. As I write all this, I again really realize how lucky we are to have these two great kids.

 

[deafdyke]

We have seen, first-hand at home, the benefits of sign language even for a little HOH kid that talks, talks, talks

*nods* Exactly......both as a social thing, and as a clarifier. Hearing aids and CIs aren't perfect, so it's good to have some sign skills on hand for when the dhh kid doesn't quite understand. It can be really frustrating to have to keep going "what? what? what?" or repeating something about ten billion times, and having the other person say "never mind."
What state is the oral school in? What state are you currently in? Maybe we can give you some advice. There's a HUGE variety of educational options out there! Maybe there are some good TC schools/programs in nearby states. They do exist.....like TLC, the California state schools for the Deaf,etc etc. I definitly wouldn't send your son away to a res school just yet. I think that the only kids who should go off to a res school, are those who are old enough to sleep over someone's house. Either that or they live in the middle of nowhere, or are foster kids or come from a not too stable family sitution.
If his language delay isn't significent, an oral school might be overkill. Plus, b/c he doesn't have a language delay, he might not get as much attention as the other kids who have bad language delays. He might improve things like articualtion, pitch and volumne but then again.......very few dhh kids have really good "like hearing"speaking voices.
Hmmmmmmm......about the mainstream placement....is there any way you can find out from others what a kid with a classic disabilty would go through?
One of the biggest risks of mainstreaming is that it's very "one size fits all" (ie generic services)
Most of the sped dept services really tend to be targeted towards LD kids. There's always a risk that kids with classic disabilites will be lumped in with the "Umm who's President Bush?" type of LD kids......and trust me that can be VERY frustrating. Definitly join ASD and Hands and Voices.....they can REALLY help you!

 

[eliotj]

My opinion:

HE obviously has a LOVE for language, both oral and signed.

I'd suggest that you work with him to PERFECT his languages. ASL, SEE and English.
This child is obviously VERY intelligent. Don't stop. As he learns he can excel at most things, he WILL!

 

[Interpretrator]

My opinion:

HE obviously has a LOVE for language, both oral and signed.

I'd suggest that you work with him to PERFECT his languages. ASL, SEE and English.
This child is obviously VERY intelligent. Don't stop. As he learns he can excel at most things, he WILL!

 

[lkzoo]

Exactly......both as a social thing, and as a clarifier. Hearing aids and CIs aren't perfect, so it's good to have some sign skills on hand for when the dhh kid doesn't quite understand.

Yes. Even though he has top-notch digital hearing aids, they cannot give him back the hearing that he doesn't have. He misses the softer sounds of speech, i.e. ch, sh and transposes t's, p's and d's, etc. The signing, including finger spelling the "p" or "d" or "s", really clarifies those words for him. (Finger spelling has also helped him learn his alphabet better, and I wonder if that's because it's a visual cue that makes it easier for him to connect with the sound??)

What state is the oral school in? What state are you currently in? ... I definitly wouldn't send your son away to a res school just yet.

The oral school is in Missouri, and we live in Alaska. The offer for us to go to the out-of-state school is for our entire family to relocate there. We have family in Missouri, and it would actually work for our family as a whole re jobs, school for our older son, etc.

I found out late yesterday that Missouri also has an excellent special education school district, which might be an alternative to the oral school. I don't yet know if they provide interpreters. I'll find more out about this next week.

My biggest concern at this point about mainstreaming him here is that none of his teachers can tell how much he is learning from the signing and how much is he learning from them speaking. I know at home that he misses at least a word out of every couple to three sentences. So, I find it hard to believe that he isn't getting something from the signing in school. Everyone believes he is smart enough to "bridge" the gap and figure out the missing words, but I'm having a hard time resolving myself to the fact that, because of where we live and the lack of resources, my kid has to try that hard just to get the information. His teachers here have been very clear that it will get harder for him as he goes up in grade levels because of the introduction of more advanced language - science, biology, etc. They say hoh kids here can do pretty well mainstreaming in elementary school, but it gets much harder and "sketchy" as they enter middle school, and then, of course, high school.

 

[lkzoo]

My opinion:

HE obviously has a LOVE for language, both oral and signed.

I'd suggest that you work with him to PERFECT his languages. ASL, SEE and English.
This child is obviously VERY intelligent. Don't stop. As he learns he can excel at most things, he WILL!

You're absolutely right, he does have a LOVE of language. He absolutely LOVES music - lyrics and all. He always wants us sit with him and go over the lyrics so he can get them. We sign and finger spell to help him out. We have a bunch of kids books on tape with the hard book to follow along, and we spends a lot of time with those. His newest thing is to take one of his brother's 2nd grade level books, look at the pictures, and make up the story (since he can't read independently yet). I really hadn't isolated all this out to a love of all language until you said it, but you are absolutely right. Pretty amazing.

 

[deafdyke]

that Missouri also has an excellent special education school district, which might be an alternative to the oral school. I don't yet know if they provide interpreters. I'll find more out about this next week.

Excellent.....is that one of those formal dhh programs? It doesn't sound like your son needs the hyperspecialization of a school for the Deaf or one of those self contained classroom dealies.....but it does sound like he would benifit from a magnet school style program, where there are a lot of dhh students and where he can have every day access to Sign!

My biggest concern at this point about mainstreaming him here is that none of his teachers can tell how much he is learning from the signing and how much is he learning from them speaking. I know at home that he misses at least a word out of every couple to three sentences. So, I find it hard to believe that he isn't getting something from the signing in school. Everyone believes he is smart enough to "bridge" the gap and figure out the missing words, but I'm having a hard time resolving myself to the fact that, because of where we live and the lack of resources, my kid has to try that hard just to get the information.

VERY excellent point! It is hard for us, even the "gifted" dhh kids to keep up with the hearing people....we can compensate for our hearing losses to an extent, but we also really depend on vision too..... I say that as someone who is VERY good at listening, to the point where I'm an aural learner (yeah, I know....that's like a blind or low vision person being a visual learner lol).....Since visual processing is an advantage for us, it's really good to make use of that.....can help us acheive more on content.

His teachers here have been very clear that it will get harder for him as he goes up in grade levels because of the introduction of more advanced language - science, biology, etc. They say hoh kids here can do pretty well mainstreaming in elementary school, but it gets much harder and "sketchy" as they enter middle school, and then, of course, high school.

WOW..........just WOW! So happy that teachers have finally reconized that!

 

[Lillys dad]

lkzoo, I live in Missouri. St.Louis to be more exact. I assume you are referring to Central Institute for the Deaf when talking about an oral deaf school? We have 3 oral schools in St.Louis. All of them are very good. My daughter attends CID. She is 2 1/2 years old. She is doing awesome at CID. (sorry I got off topic). As far as the special school district goes, the St.Louis county special school district has an awesome deaf ed program. It has to by default. Considering there are 3 oral schools in the area, and all of them are incredible. The ssd program had to be very good just to compete with Central Institue for the deaf, Moog, and St.Josephs school for the deaf. The SSD program allows the deaf/hoh child to attend a local school disrtict like normal. But, the SSD can come and go from the public school or you can have you child go half day at each. Whatever you and the staff work out.
We just had our first IEP meeting for my daughter last week. At this meeting, we had CID staff, ssd staff, and our local school district. After talking to all of them at lenght, my wife and I have come to the conclusion that all of them are very good.
Just a side note here, CID is respceted throughout the world as one of the best oral deaf schools in the world. Families move to st.louis from all over the world so thier children can thrive.
Please feel free to contact me whenever you would like. I was born and raised in st.louis and am more than happy to help in any way possible.

 

[Lillys dad]

one more thing, if you would like, i could get contact info for you to get hold of the 3 oral schools and the ssd.
I saw your amount of posts and assume you are new sight. If you do not know how to send a private message, just click on my name on this post and scroll down to "send private message". I look forward to hearing from you!

 

[jillio]

You are to be commended for the excellent job you are doing with your son. It is rare for a hearing parent to understand that just because a d/hh child doesn't use sign for expressive language does not mean they don't need it for receptive language. As his teachers are unable to assess how much ssign he is using to process receptive language, I would encourage you to take advantage of the testing that has been offered. It can help clarify for you how reliant he is on the visual, and give you insights into the way he is processing information.

It was my experience with my own son that the delay in understanding concepts could only be addressed with the use of sign. As you have done, I also used sign consistently with my son at home. He attended a Total Communication pre-school, then was mainstreamed with a terp until 4th grade. From 5th grade until graduation, he attended a school for the deaf that used TC. He is now a freshman at a hearing college, and uses terps and notetakers in classes.

My son also developed good expressive verbal language skills, but has always been reliant on the visual for understanding communication. Being exposed to the Deaf community has been invaluable in helping him to develop social skills and a positive self concept--something I believe he cannot do in a completely oral environment.

Keep posting and let us all know how things are going for you and your son.

 

[eliotj]

You're absolutely right, he does have a LOVE of language. He absolutely LOVES music - lyrics and all. He always wants us sit with him and go over the lyrics so he can get them. We sign and finger spell to help him out. We have a bunch of kids books on tape with the hard book to follow along, and we spends a lot of time with those. His newest thing is to take one of his brother's 2nd grade level books, look at the pictures, and make up the story (since he can't read independently yet). I really hadn't isolated all this out to a love of all language until you said it, but you are absolutely right. Pretty amazing.

I've worked in the high school locally with the Deaf kids, and was told by their teachers that their parents mostly don't sign and communicate with them.

This brings me to you - I truly see a bond, not only as parent/child but as a more communicatove bond. This is something some don't have.

This is so GREAT that you're able to do this!

 

[eliotj]

You are to be commended for the excellent job you are doing with your son. It is rare for a hearing parent to understand that just because a d/hh child doesn't use sign for expressive language does not mean they don't need it for receptive language. As his teachers are unable to assess how much ssign he is using to process receptive language, I would encourage you to take advantage of the testing that has been offered. It can help clarify for you how reliant he is on the visual, and give you insights into the way he is processing information.

It was my experience with my own son that the delay in understanding concepts could only be addressed with the use of sign. As you have done, I also used sign consistently with my son at home. He attended a Total Communication pre-school, then was mainstreamed with a terp until 4th grade. From 5th grade until graduation, he attended a school for the deaf that used TC. He is now a freshman at a hearing college, and uses terps and notetakers in classes.

My son also developed good expressive verbal language skills, but has always been reliant on the visual for understanding communication. Being exposed to the Deaf community has been invaluable in helping him to develop social skills and a positive self concept--something I believe he cannot do in a completely oral environment.

Keep posting and let us all know how things are going for you and your son.

I agree.

Why is it that some of the HEARIES think that DEAF means DUMB? Lack of intelligence?

 

[jillio]

I agree.

Why is it that some of the HEARIES think that DEAF means DUMB? Lack of intelligence?

Personally, I believe it is because they can't think on a deep enough level to grasp that language and verbal are not the same thing. Too much trouble to have to think about another viewpoint, and then maybe change their minds about something they have believed for a long time!

 

[Lillys dad]

Jillio, I agree.
It's similar to the idiots that think a non english speaking person will suddenly understand english if you yell at them in english.

 

[eliotj]

Jillio, I agree.
It's similar to the idiots that think a non english speaking person will suddenly understand english if you yell at them in english.

hehe...yeah, or modifying your words somehow...

AS IF...


I work (not always) with Deaf children from ages 6 through 17.
The one thing that amazes me is how far behind most are and there's absolutely NO EXCUSE.
They are intelligent, but left out.
The blame lies partially with their parents but also with the educators themselves for allowing them to continue to fall behind.

 

[jillio]

hehe...yeah, or modifying your words somehow...

AS IF...


I work (not always) with Deaf children from ages 6 through 17.
The one thing that amazes me is how far behind most are and there's absolutely NO EXCUSE.
They are intelligent, but left out.
The blame lies partially with their parents but also with the educators themselves for allowing them to continue to fall behind.

Absolutely. Too much early childhood is wasted trying to make so many kids into a reasonable facsimile of a hearing child rather than concentrating on helping them become the best deaf kid they can be.