Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

[Holly]

Posted by loml: Holly - I am familiar with Signed English. As you may be aware Signed English is not a language. As there is not a sign for every word in English, then you may inadvertently simplify your spoken vocabulary as a means of making up for the short comings of the sign system.
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I am coming from the standpoint that language is any form of communication, verbal and non verbal.

 

[loml]

No, you need to be educated regarding the issues of language acquisition and cognitive psychology to which you attempt to apply CS. You've got the rhetoric memorized well. What you are lacking is knowledge that allows you to effectively apply such with any degree of credibility.

You continue to refer to cueing as multi-modal. Explain, please, from a linguistic perspective exactly how cueing is multi-modal. You have also claimed that it is kinesthetic. So, please, from a linguistic standpoint, please explain to us the foundation for these claims. Likewise, please explain how it is that CS changes the syntax of a language, thus making it a suitable representation for visual processing. I anxiously await your reply.

jillio - http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/44617-advantages.html#post828073

 

[jillio]

jillio - http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/44617-advantages.html#post828073

I aksed you to explain it in your own words, to demonstrate that you have even a small amount of understanding of that which you speak. Simply parroting the words of others does not indicate understanding; just an ability to indiscriminately repeat what you have heard.

But, thanks! Your reply answers the questions regarding your comprehension. The article to which you have referred answers none of the questions I addressed to you. The NCSA must be very proud of your ability to repeat whatever you are told.

 

[loml]

I aksed you to explain it in your own words, to demonstrate that you have even a small amount of understanding of that which you speak. Simply parroting the words of others does not indicate understanding; just an ability to indiscriminately repeat what you have heard.

But, thanks! Your reply answers the questions regarding your comprehension. The article to which you have referred answers none of the questions I addressed to you. The NCSA must be very proud of your ability to repeat whatever you are told.

jillio - I never claimed to be a neuroscientist. Not sure how you see this article as parroting, but then perhaps you did not read the article in its entirety back in August. I can pull the MRI info for you if you like. If you would like to discuss this with the individuals involved with the reasearch I would be happy to locate contact information for you.

 

[jillio]

jillio - I never claimed to be a neuroscientist.

Doesn't take a neuroscientist to answer the questions I asked. Just someone who understands what they post.

 

[loml]

Doesn't take a neuroscientist to answer the questions I asked. Just someone who understands what they post.

jillio - The brain is an amazingly complex machine. You continue to compare cueing to the processing of language primarily through auditoy/oral means.
Not sure what you are trying to prove here, but it is like comparing ASL to English, then again that is also something you continuously do.

 

[loml]

jillio - I am posting two paragraphs that I thought might be of particular interest for you.

Leybaert and her colleagues (Alegria, Dejean, Capouillez, & Leybaert, 1990; Alegria, Lechat, & Leybaert, 1990; Charlier, 1992; Leybaert, 1993; Leybaert & Alegria, 1993; Leybaert & Alegria, 1995; Leybaert & Charlier, 1996; Perier, Charlier, Hage, & Alegria, 1988) have demonstrated that deaf individuals who have been exposed to Cued Speech both at home and at school perform comparably to hearing peers on tasks of phonemic awareness, internal speech recoding, phonics, and spelling and perform generally better than their deaf counterparts from oral or signing backgrounds. In a recently published study (LaSasso, Crain, & Leybaert, 2003), the rhyming abilities of deaf college students from Cued Speech backgrounds were comparable to those of their hearing peers and better than those of deaf students who came from non-Cued Speech backgrounds.

Eden, Lansdale, Cappell, Crain, Zeffiro, and LaSasso (submitted for publication) report results of a study that incorporated functional magnetic resonance (fMRI) brain imaging techniques to learn about how deaf individuals from Cued Speech backgrounds process phonological information. In that study, participants were matched on a word reading task with hearing peers and asked to perform phoneme deletion tasks while in an fMRI scanner. Results of that study revealed that 1) the phonological abilities of Cued Speech users were comparable to their hearing peers, and 2) Cued Speech users use the same parts of the brain, including the so-called“auditory” cortex, to process phonological information as their hearing peers. This study provides fMRI evidence that deaf individuals acquire phonological information comparable to hearing peers. It also suggests that deaf students process phonological information in the same parts of the brain as hearing individuals.

Research and Theory Support Cued Speech--KidsWorld Deaf Net E-Doc--Gallaudet's Laurent Clerc National Deaf Education Center

 

[loml]

Posted by loml: Holly - I am familiar with Signed English. As you may be aware Signed English is not a language. As there is not a sign for every word in English, then you may inadvertently simplify your spoken vocabulary as a means of making up for the short comings of the sign system.
_____
I am coming from the standpoint that language is any form of communication, verbal and non verbal.

Holly - I can see that we do not have the same definition for language.

 

[rick48]

What you experienced was an extreme opposite. You are right, he was a moron for saying that your daughter was limited. But there is no need to make a general assumption for all "anti-oral" people based on him, please don't generalize.

I wasn't generalizing, I was citing a specific example unlike yourself who has been generalizing about what you assume is best for all deaf children.

 

[Buffalo]

All the threads that you were talking about why don't the parents learn sign language to communicate with deaf/Deaf/HOH children. You, hearies, sound like coming out of the T.V. series "Star Trek/The Next Generation" where there is a Bork when they want to wipe them out so they can be like them. Well, like the series, hearing parents want to abolish and destroy our ASL as it is fertile and not worthy for us to communicate with ASL, whether we have hearing aid or CI. We are struggling to understand with lipreading, hear and talk like the hearing people. I am very sick of Audists doing that to us especially with AGBell. We are arguing with no avail trying to make them understand with our experience as deaf people. They think they have the experience to help us hear when we are having trouble struggle understanding within the classroom environment without interpreter, notetaking, and ASL. As for cued speech, it just make it all the more worse trying to talk with our voice not clear and almost not understandable to hearing people. So why we fight so much to struggle for the sake of hearing people, to please them. That is why it is not fair for hearing parents not being able to learn ASL to communicate with them and it is more easier to understand that lipreading and talking. So hearies, get a life and start communicate with your children in ASL, please.

I already noticed that the pro-oralists are like the Borgs and mentioned that somewhere in the AD. It is like they are telling us that we must achieve the hearing standard at all costs and completely ignored our feelings/opinions.

 

[Buffalo]

parents of deaf children need to read this and realize that deaf people are the best source of information on how to raise your deaf children.

Exactly! Unfortunally, too many parents won't listen to the Deaf people. They would rather listen to their doctor who most likely knows zip about the Deaf Culture. I'd rather be hard-of hearing than hard-of-understanding.

 

[Cloggy]

Remember I had a long dicussion with Cloggy here about deaf culture, and it ended with him making up that a city in norway did not have deaf culture, when it did actually have by information provided on internet. He even claimed that Alaska did not have deaf culture.

..... yes, I showed a town in the middle of Alaska, asking you if you felt there would be Deaf Culture there....
Staying silent on your part showed that there was none... and how can there be.
One deaf person in a remote town is not Deaf Culture....

But please tell me, how the deaf person in a remote town in Alaska is going to experience deaf culture....
Internet?

 

[Cloggy]

Oh geez and he doesnt want people spreading lies or misconceptions about CIs? Well, the same goes for spreading lies and misconceptions about Deaf culture and sign language too! :roll:

Accusing me of lying?
Before you do that, explain how one deaf person in a remote town is Deaf Culture..

 

[shel90]

Accusing me of lying?
Before you do that, explain how one deaf person in a remote town is Deaf Culture..

No deaf community in Alaska? Dont make claims like that as there are many Deaf people living there. I personally know some so when I saw that, I didnt appreciate that just like you wouldnt appreciate people posting lies about CIs.

 

[shel90]

Exactly! Unfortunally, too many parents won't listen to the Deaf people. They would rather listen to their doctor who most likely knows zip about the Deaf Culture. I'd rather be hard-of hearing than hard-of-understanding.

LOL! That's a good one!

 

[flip]

..... yes, I showed a town in the middle of Alaska, asking you if you felt there would be Deaf Culture there....
Staying silent on your part showed that there was none... and how can there be.
One deaf person in a remote town is not Deaf Culture....

But please tell me, how the deaf person in a remote town in Alaska is going to experience deaf culture....
Internet?

Of course you won't find deaf culture on the most isolated places, so that question was too silly to reply for me, but you claimed there is no deaf culture in Alaska when you made this rethorical question. It's too obvious how you make up stuff to back up your arguments here. Cloggy, we perhaps know you better than you think?

"Tell me... is there Deaf culture in Alaska?"

http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/41551-we-need-change-3.html#post779601

 

[Bebonang]

Thank you for showing us the forum on "We need to change". Cloggy was there and have a lot of misinformation and a lot of assumption on the Deaf Culture and Deaf Communities all over the world. He just never understand our situation as a Deaf person and is trying to push us into CI to gain into the hearing world. Cloggy is the master of the "Borg" is what all audists were so stubborn and refuse to believe that Deaf people or Hard of Hearing people will always be struggling trying to understand with their hearing loss whether from birth or late deafen. The only solution is to ignore his remarks about CI and the misinformation about our Deafness, Deaf Culture and Deaf Communities and most of all to refuse to accept deafness from his daughter. The thing is that I don't understand why he is soooooo stubborn about it all. Do we have to keep fighting with him all the time everytime he talks about the CI a lot.

 

[jillio]

jillio - The brain is an amazingly complex machine. You continue to compare cueing to the processing of language primarily through auditoy/oral means.
Not sure what you are trying to prove here, but it is like comparing ASL to English, then again that is also something you continuously do.

Yes, loml, the brain is complex. And cued language is processed as auditory/ oral information, as it is auditroy/oral in nature. Simply addling a cue to an auditory/oral language does not change the syntax to make it suitable for visual processing. A visual language is processed as visual information, and its syntax is representative of the way in visual information is processed. I don't know how much clearer that can be.

 

[jillio]

jillio - I am posting two paragraphs that I thought might be of particular interest for you.




Research and Theory Support Cued Speech--KidsWorld Deaf Net E-Doc--Gallaudet's Laurent Clerc National Deaf Education Center

Once again, loml, you are posting the words of others that have absolutely no relevence to the questions I have asked. Quite obviously, you are unable to answer the questions I have asked you, and are misunderstanding them to the degree that you simply continue to pull up research that is not applicable to the questions being asked. If you are unable to answer the questions, just say so. Your constant parroting of the words of others, and particularly when you are using quotes that have no relevence to what has been asked is simply an attempt to cover up your own inadequate understanding of that in which you claim expertise. Quite frankly, if you were one of my students, you would have failed the exam miserably. Only three questions, to be answered in your own words to demonstrate understanding of the subject, and you have been unable to answer any of them.

 

[jillio]

Exactly! Unfortunally, too many parents won't listen to the Deaf people. They would rather listen to their doctor who most likely knows zip about the Deaf Culture. I'd rather be hard-of hearing than hard-of-understanding.

The majority of doctors not only know zip about deaf culture, but they also know only that deafness means an inability to hear. Their knowledge of the psychosocial and educational implications is nada.