District files appeal against deaf student

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loml said:
Jillio . (oh and it's deaf not dearf)

and somehow this makes you a better parent? ohhhh pleaseeee

Having CART in the classroom could benefit more than one student.
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No, the people I consulted did not have a monetary stake in ASL. They were simply members of the Deaf community who shared their experience of growing up Deaf and taught my son and I their language.

Who said anything about being a better parent?
 
jillio said:
Didn't you read my post? I received the same information as you did regarding their "correspondance course" on how to raise an oral deaf child. I simply saw it for what it was. A damaging approach. And,there are a few deaf posters on here who have had personal expierience with JTC and describe it as damaging, as well.
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That's funny because we saw the materials that came weekly, which of course you never did because you did not follow-up, that consisted mainly of tips and speech therapy exercises that you could incorporate into everyday activities as well......tips and speech therapy exercises that you could incorporate into everyday activities as well.

BTW, if you found the JTC home correspondence course to be such a damaging approach, why then were you at this very same time were you giving your son AVT which frowns upon the use of not only manual signs and clues but visual ones as well?
 
pek1 said:
Yes, they both do! Admission from their own words!


Pete, I know you would like to become a lawyer but one of the first things a good trial attorney learns is that you never make a statement before a judge or a jury that you cannot back you with facts.

So please Pete, show me the post wherein I "trashed" deaf children and/or supported the "trashing" of deaf children.

Try and remember the fact that I am the parent of a deaf child.

And try to understand the nuance in the difference between the fact that Jackie's statements about Riverside are based on her personal experiences wherein Jillio's statements about JTC are not. It is not about whether one's opinion is right or wrong for that is a matter of perspective but rather, the basis that forms their respective opinions. As they say, it goes towards the weight to be given to the evidence not its materiality.

Rick

PS If you are ever going to be a successful attorney then you better come up with a more compelling and cogent argument then "Busted Dude", especially when it makes no sense to the underlying facts.
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jillio said:
...Oh, and now you are a translator, too? Are you certified for that as well? Becasue if you aren't, then the school system has violated the parents rights by using an uncertified translator.
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Are you a certified interpreter?
 
rick48 said:
That's funny because we saw the materials that came weekly, which of course you never did because you did not follow-up, that consisted mainly of tips and speech therapy exercises that you could incorporate into everyday activities as well......tips and speech therapy exercises that you could incorporate into everyday activities as well.

BTW, if you found the JTC home correspondence course to be such a damaging approach, why then were you at this very same time were you giving your son AVT which frowns upon the use of not only manual signs and clues but visual ones as well?
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AVT in and of itself does not frown on the use of sign and visual clues. It is only when AVY is incorporated into an oralist environment that such is true. AVT, or audio/verbal therapy is also used in TC environments to develop speech and language skills. That is why Total Communication is called Total Communication.

My problem with JTC is is strictly oral philosophy.

And in your reply to Pete, you left out the very pertinent fact that I disagree with JTC's philosophy and the negative effects such a philosophy has on the language development of young, deaf children. Jackie, on the other hand, referred to the students attending Riverside, and labeled them as "bad" kids. One is opposition to a philosophy, the other is a personal judgement against the students.
 
they require all observation to be done at JTC, or at another approved institution that uses the auditory-verbal or aural-auditory approach
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There's no dhh classroom that's purely "Auditory-Verbal" BUT jillo meant that there are insistutions/organizations that really push AVT.
Jackie, SOME of the oral insistions have gotten a little less extreme, but I mean it seems like JTC has not changed. Its so obvious simply b/c of the language and PR that they use on their site and in their promotional materials.
I know too that my friends(of young kids) who have experianced JTC say that while its gotten a little more moderate, it STILL isn't as Sign/ any methodology besides hearing and talking friendly, as it could be!
Most pro oral orgs STILL push the "Sign should just be used early on if the kid's an oral failure" philosophy........they still push oral as the be all and end all of a dhh kid's existance.
If more oral orgs pushed what they taught as more "aqurring" a useful skill, rather then the be all and end all of a dhh kid's life, then you'd see a LOT less Deaf people being against oral education and the aqqustion of oral skills!
 
deafdyke said:
There's no dhh classroom that's purely "Auditory-Verbal" BUT jillo meant that there are insistutions/organizations that really push AVT.
Jackie, SOME of the oral insistions have gotten a little less extreme, but I mean it seems like JTC has not changed. Its so obvious simply b/c of the language and PR that they use on their site and in their promotional materials.
I know too that my friends(of young kids) who have experianced JTC say that while its gotten a little more moderate, it STILL isn't as Sign/ any methodology besides hearing and talking friendly, as it could be!
Most pro oral orgs STILL push the "Sign should just be used early on if the kid's an oral failure" philosophy........they still push oral as the be all and end all of a dhh kid's existance.
If more oral orgs pushed what they taught as more "aqurring" a useful skill, rather then the be all and end all of a dhh kid's life, then you'd see a LOT less Deaf people being against oral education and the aqqustion of oral skills!
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Right, dd. No one here is against the acquisition of oral skills. What I am against, and I believe many others, is the exlusion of sign in the deaf child's environment, especially when it is excluded on the myth that it will interfere with the development of oral skills, and that the child will be further "hadicapped" by it's use.
 
Well, that is still a B+ average overall, which is still in the above average range. Her class rank is 268? 268 out of how many?
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But Jillo! Wittle Smashlie will never be able to get into an Ivy League college with those grades and that class rank!
Jackie the special education system should not be something used by overprivilaged suburban parents trying to give their kids an edge.
Your daughter's doing B+ work...........B+ work compared to HEARING kids!
Oh and Jackie, we here are all aware that while a lot of places are nominally OK with Sign (eg they don't bash Sign like they did in the old days), they are still VERY audist "spoken English is best" mentality.
It's very insistuited.
Oh, and jackie, the reason we are against oral only is simple. How would you achieve if the focus of your education was an area where you were weak? Yes, you should work to strenghen that area............but why should it be the focus of someone's education?
 
deafdyke said:
But Jillo! Wittle Smashlie will never be able to get into an Ivy League college with those grades and that class rank!
Jackie the special education system should not be something used by overprivilaged suburban parents trying to give their kids an edge.
Your daughter's doing B+ work...........B+ work compared to HEARING kids!
Oh and Jackie, we here are all aware that while a lot of places are nominally OK with Sign (eg they don't bash Sign like they did in the old days), they are still VERY audist "spoken English is best" mentality.
It's very insistuited.
Oh, and jackie, the reason we are against oral only is simple. How would you achieve if the focus of your education was an area where you were weak? Yes, you should work to strenghen that area............but why should it be the focus of someone's education?
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:gpost::gpost:
 
deafdyke said:
But Jillo! Wittle Smashlie will never be able to get into an Ivy League college with those grades and that class rank!
Jackie the special education system should not be something used by overprivilaged suburban parents trying to give their kids an edge.

How many times have I had to explain to you that we do not come from an overprivilaged family. I come from a working class family. I am the first in my family to graduated from college.

Your daughter's doing B+ work...........B+ work compared to HEARING kids!
Oh and Jackie, we here are all aware that while a lot of places are nominally OK with Sign (eg they don't bash Sign like they did in the old days), they are still VERY audist "spoken English is best" mentality.
It's very insistuited.
Oh, and jackie, the reason we are against oral only is simple. How would you achieve if the focus of your education was an area where you were weak? Yes, you should work to strenghen that area............but why should it be the focus of someone's education?
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It should be our focus because it our deicision how we raised our daughter.
 
Jillo you mention that if my comments got to court system we will lose or weaken our case, I am not sure which you said. Please go right ahead forward these comments. I am very comfortable in what I have said. So please do. Also if you feel that I am such awful teacher, please also contact my empoyers maybe you get me fired along with making us lose our case, if you think that you have that kind of power.
 
DD you have mention several times that I have not respond to your questions. I do not know how many times I have to explain to you that we come from a working class family. Or is it that you are on your hight horse and cannot understand the facts.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
It should be our focus because it our deicision how we raised our daughter.
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And here we go with the contradictions again. Several posts back, someone stated, I think it was jag, that you and rick were working class people. You relplied to that post stating that actually, you were a above working class, and have made more than one post about the size of your house and the fact that it is too big for your family. So which is it, jackie....working class or not?

And there you have admitted it: speech skills are the most important thing to you, by choice. Well, then, education often takes a back seat when speech is the most important thing. You chose it, you are responsible for the consequences.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
Jillo you mention that if my comments got to court system we will lose or weaken our case, I am not sure which you said. Please go right ahead forward these comments. I am very comfortable in what I have said. So please do. Also if you feel that I am such awful teacher, please also contact my empoyers maybe you get me fired along with making us lose our case, if you think that you have that kind of power.
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You know jackie, it will not be necesary for me to forward anything tothe court system. They ahve the records of your daughter's performance in hand. That speaks for itself. And, if you are called to testify, I have no doubt that you will look as foolish as you have right here, as well as in the other forum. You can't keep your story straight when you have a written record to refer to. How the heck will you remember what you said, and not contradict yourself without a written record?

Perhaps I should just show your employers an example of your grammar.
 
rick48 said:
Pete, I know you would like to become a lawyer but one of the first things a good trial attorney learns is that you never make a statement before a judge or a jury that you cannot back you with facts.

So please Pete, show me the post wherein I "trashed" deaf children and/or supported the "trashing" of deaf children.

Try and remember the fact that I am the parent of a deaf child.

And try to understand the nuance in the difference between the fact that Jackie's statements about Riverside are based on her personal experiences wherein Jillio's statements about JTC are not.

Rick

PS If you are ever going to be a successful attorney then you better come up with a more compelling and cogent argument then "Busted Dude", especially when it makes no sense to the underlying facts.
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Rick,

So you're not deaf yourself, but yet you think jackie's method is better? She's been asked several times for proof of her research. Now, the last time I checked, "proof" is defined here Definition of proof - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary . I'm deaf/hoh, are you telling me that you know better than I do for what I need? Are you telling me that you know what's better for all kids that are deaf/hoh without weighing in on everything? Jackie is still one sided and research shows the results of both sides. What's happened to shel and I, in the school system of mainstreaming, cannot continue as it is. Way too many deaf/hoh kids are being left behind and, by the way, isn't that what the president said he didn't want, or did it just pertain to hearing children only? That statement in itself would be enough to have a jury side with me; did you not read the last line of the pledge of allegiance, where it says, " . . . with liberty and justice for all!" It wasn't pertaining to white kids only or white kids who can hear, it said "ALL."
 
pek1 said:
Rick,

So you're not deaf yourself, but yet you think jackie's method is better? She's been asked several times for proof of her research. Now, the last time I checked, "proof" is defined here Definition of proof - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary . I'm deaf/hoh, are you telling me that you know better than I do for what I need? Are you telling me that you know what's better for all kids that are deaf/hoh without weighing in on everything? Jackie is still one sided and research shows the results of both sides. What's happened to shel and I, in the school system of mainstreaming, cannot continue as it is. Way too many deaf/hoh kids are being left behind and, by the way, isn't that what the president said he didn't want, or did it just pertain to hearing children only? That statement in itself would be enough to have a jury side with me; did you not read the last line of the pledge of allegiance, where it says, " . . . with liberty and justice for all!" It wasn't pertaining to white kids only or white kids who can hear, it said "ALL."
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Exactly Pete. It all comes back to that ethnocentric attitude of hearing believing that they know better what the deaf need than the deaf do themselves. Why do they hold that belief? Because inherent in that attitude is also the belief that hearing is superior to deafness, and that the more a deaf person is able to mimic a hearing way of communication, the less deaf they will be, and therefore, the more superior they will be. :rl:
 
Oh, and I would like to share some good news. One of the students I work with...CI but still sign based and uses a terp in class...referred him an internship program through the VA. They had some grant money, and he fulfilled the stipulations inthe grant, so he was hired for a paid internship through the grant funding. He just came into my office to tell me that starting Oct. they will be putting him on staff and he is going to be making $33,000/yr. Not bad for a signing college sophomore, huh? Oh, and he is also teching sign classes at the VA to vets who have been adventitiously deafened.

Success story!
 
jillio said:
You know jackie, it will not be necesary for me to forward anything tothe court system. They ahve the records of your daughter's performance in hand. That speaks for itself. And, if you are called to testify, I have no doubt that you will look as foolish as you have right here, as well as in the other forum. You can't keep your story straight when you have a written record to refer to. How the heck will you remember what you said, and not contradict yourself without a written record?

Perhaps I should just show your employers an example of your grammar.
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Please do
 
jillio said:
And here we go with the contradictions again. Several posts back, someone stated, I think it was jag, that you and rick were working class people. You relplied to that post stating that actually, you were a above working class, and have made more than one post about the size of your house and the fact that it is too big for your family. So which is it, jackie....working class or not?

And there you have admitted it: speech skills are the most important thing to you, by choice. Well, then, education often takes a back seat when speech is the most important thing. You chose it, you are responsible for the consequences.
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It really is none of your business or anyone else's but I will explain. I am from a working class family. I am actually the first in both of our families to finish college. My husband did not finish high school.

We do have a large house for us it is the biggest home we have ever lived in. My husband works really hard and puts in a lot of overtime. We are able to afford our home for now because of a funny mortgage we have. As a teacher and because I have taken all of the college classes I can, I am at the end of the education side.

Right now if you look at our bank account yeah it would look like we are currently working class family. If you look at my home then we would be middle class.

I am from a working class family and all of my extended family is working class. And I do not expect my kids to go an Ivy League college. We are thinking Cal State or UC system.

I am so sorry that both my husband and I have worked so hard to try to get out of the working class. It is like we have one foot in and one foot out.
 
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