Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

[jillio]

......Me too!

And you can do the same!

 

[jillio]

Cloggy,

You got it, this is what they have been doing for years going all the way back to Harlan Lane. They label your child "lucky", a "special case", "one of the very few", etc. and once done, then they no longer have to deal with your child. However, as you and I know, our children are very similar to many other kids with cochlear implants.

So no matter how hard they try to marginalize them, it never works.
Rick

Once again, marginalization occurs from dominant soiciety to non-dominant society.

 

[rick48]

And you can do the same!

Although it is probably the more attractive end, nevertheless, I will pass.

 

[rick48]

Once again, marginalization occurs from dominant soiciety to non-dominant society.

And once again, for years Deaf Militants have been attempting to marginalize children who have benefited from their cochlear implants.

 

[deafdyke]

And once again, for years Deaf Militants have been attempting to marginalize children who have benefited from their cochlear implants.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick, if you think jillo and I are militants, you've NEVER met a Deaf Militant.
Acknowledging that deaf kids get mixed results from CIs, is essentially the same as a deaf activist saying that dhh (for there are some hoh kids who don't benifit from HA) kids get a wide range of help from HA. How is that any different?
YES, in the past a lot of Deaf people claimed that CI didn't work accross the board. It's changed a lot.

 

[rick48]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick, if you think jillo and I are militants, you've NEVER met a Deaf Militant.
Acknowledging that deaf kids get mixed results from CIs, is essentially the same as a deaf activist saying that dhh (for there are some hoh kids who don't benifit from HA) kids get a wide range of help from HA. How is that any different?
YES, in the past a lot of Deaf people claimed that CI didn't work accross the board. It's changed a lot.

I should have been more precise: Some Deaf Militants and some who oppose cochlear implants for children.....

 

[Cloggy]

Once again, marginalization occurs from dominant soiciety to non-dominant society.

WIKI

Marginalisation or marginalization (US) refers to the overt or covert trends within societies whereby those perceived as lacking desirable traits or deviating from the group norms tend to be excluded by wider society and ostracised as undesirables.

Wing Leung describes a marginal person as "...one who does not belong. . . . [T]he marginal man...[dwells] at the margin of two cultures and two societies...[and possesses] a marginal mentality...[with its] unresolved identity crises."[1]

The idea was also amply expressed by Louis Wirth speaking of minority groups thus: "A group of people who, because of their physical or cultural characteristics, are singled out from the others in the society in which they live for differential and unequal treatment, and who therefore regard themselves as objects of collective discrimination."[2]

In this respect, what is apparent first is a distinctive social group, with their own characteristic features, then the singling out or victimization by the more numerically dominant members of the host society, and hence the subsequent unequal treatment leading to acts of discrimination, social ostracism, etc. This is the essence of marginalisation.

Within the Developed World, racial, or ethnic minority groups, stand out as being the most marginalized social groups. This also includes the poor, the elderly, the sick, the disabled, the obese, teenage mothers, homosexuals and lesbians. All these groups tend to suffer from some forms of marginalization and a typical host of social ills; poverty, unemployment, poor education and poor health. They each tend to be ostracised and so suffer various forms of social exclusion. In fact, much of the progressive reform of the last century has been driven by the need for societies to mitigate damaging internal unrest, by a deliberate reversing of previous trends that engendered political and social marginalisation of racial and political minorities, and to a certain degree, women.

 

[shel90]

This is a paper written by a deaf student with a CI about the BIBI approach

I got permission from one of my friends who has a CI to paste his paper here.

The approach of second language instruction I had experienced was Rational Orientation. I learned American Sign Language from a friend that I met at summer youth camp. Before that, I only used spoken language to communicate and I had thought that was the only language I will use growing up. I met that Deaf person who was fluent in ASL so I became fascinated with the language. From that moment, I acquired my second language by the Natural Approach.
The Natural Approach was how I acquired the language using comprehensible input from a person signing and listening (receptively). The teacher used pre-production using a visual approach such as pictures, pointing to things, taking us on field trips, then signing each. During early production, I was able to respond using one or two words based on the questions the teacher asked. I was able to sign out the words, such as yes, no and so on. Using the very basic vocabulary expressions, I started acquiring ASL as second language. As time went on, I moved to the next level, which was speech emergence where I started expressing myself in sentences using ASL. That was when I was 8 or 9 years old. Yes, I was delayed in language development after my mother discovered that I was an “oral failure” according the public school that I was put in. At last, at the age of 12, I was able to express myself at the intermediate level in ASL, in which I was able to use my thoughts and ideas to the questions the teacher asked. From then on, I knew ASL was my preferenced language choice to use to expressively and receptively myself due to 100% access to comprehension.
Sociopsycholinguistic Orientation is the appropriate approach for bilingual education for the Deaf due several reasons. First, the language input is exposed to the child based on location such as the home, community, and school setting. The child acquires the language by interacting with family, peers, or the people in the community in which is described as an individual psychology development that Piaget suggested. On another hand, Vygotsky believed that the child acquired and developed the language in a more formal method being taught by adults. A Zone of Proximal Development theory that Vygotsky developed was an approach to the Deaf child using what she/he can do alone and what she/he can do with help from an adult.
In the bilingual education setting, the students develop their L1 language using ASL and once they mastered it, the teacher will draw from their L1 language to teach English in the printed form. Once the students have mastered both languages, the teachers stimilately use ASL for communication in the air such as presentations, plays, or debates while using English for written reports. This method uses the CALP since it requires a higher level of cognitive skills. The students communicate using ASL with peers for socialization, which is using BALP due to the decreased need for cognitive thinking. It is very important that deaf students internalize their L1 language and be able to express themselves using CALP instead of BALP. If the students are at the BALP level with their L1 language, their ability to internalize is very restricted.
Growing up, with spoken language, I felt unable to draw out my inner emotions or to put my thoughts conceptuality making reading and writing extremely difficult for me to learn. Once I became fluent in ASL, reading and writing became so easier for me due to the ability to internalize naturally. I felt that the BiBi approach is what enabled me to get to this point of my life.

Thank u
Author's name witheld

 

[jillio]

And once again, for years Deaf Militants have been attempting to marginalize children who have benefited from their cochlear implants.

As Deaf Militants are non-dominant culture, they cannot marginalize. Please, educate yourself on the usage of sociological and anthropological terminology. However, oralists, such as yourself, have marginalized Deaf individuals as a group since the 18th century, and continue to do so. Those who hold philosophies such as the ones you subscribe to are responsible for creating the stigma of disabled for an entire community of people. Of course, I don't expect you to understand this, as those who subscribe to your philosphies also are completely incapable of empathy and critical analysis.

 

[jillio]

Although it is probably the more attractive end, nevertheless, I will pass.

While very attractive, it is definately not the most attractive end. However, I am grateful that you have decline, as I fear catching your ignorance through contact.

 

[jillio]

WIKI

You need to find a source other than Wikipedia. It is very unreliable. Cite it in a research paper and you will be laughed out of the academic community. Please, use a library, or another source that would increase your credibility. And as well, look for contextal in a sentence, not simply the first dictionary definition you come to.

 

[jillio]

WIKI

#1-- If you would like to appear to be credible, you are going to have to find a source other than Wikipedia. It is notoriously unreliable. Use it s a source in a research project, and you will be laughted out of the academic community.

#2--Please read what you have written. You have validated my point. Dominant group=hearing; non-dominant group (marginalized)=deaf/Deaf.

 

[shel90]

The idea was also amply expressed by Louis Wirth speaking of minority groups thus: "A group of people who, because of their physical or cultural characteristics, are singled out from the others in the society in which they live for differential and unequal treatment, and who therefore regard themselves as objects of collective discrimination."[2]

In this respect, what is apparent first is a distinctive social group, with their own characteristic features, then the singling out or victimization by the more numerically dominant members of the host society, and hence the subsequent unequal treatment leading to acts of discrimination, social ostracism, etc. This is the essence of marginalisation.

Thank you Cloggy for the definition...this is what was happened to me when I was placed in a mainstreamed school with all hearing people without any other deaf people present or a visual language provided. As a result, I was singled out, treated unequal, discriminated against and ostraced from social groups...did I ask for that? No, the specialists thought because I could speak so well, they made that decision in which influenced my mom to follow suit. No wonder I prefer to socialize or be with my deaf friends or with hearing people who have respect for Deaf people and our needs. I dont need to be marginalized again...I have had enough of it from growing up so oppressed.

 

[jillio]

The idea was also amply expressed by Louis Wirth speaking of minority groups thus: "A group of people who, because of their physical or cultural characteristics, are singled out from the others in the society in which they live for differential and unequal treatment, and who therefore regard themselves as objects of collective discrimination."[2]

In this respect, what is apparent first is a distinctive social group, with their own characteristic features, then the singling out or victimization by the more numerically dominant members of the host society, and hence the subsequent unequal treatment leading to acts of discrimination, social ostracism, etc. This is the essence of marginalisation.

Thank you Cloggy for the definition...this is what was happened to me when I was placed in a mainstreamed school with all hearing people without any other deaf people present or a visual language provided. As a result, I was singled out, treated unequal, discriminated against and ostraced from social groups...did I ask for that? No, the specialists thought because I could speak so well, they made that decision in which influenced my mom to follow suit. No wonder, I prefer to socialize or be with my deaf friends or with hearing people who have respect for Deaf people and our needs. I dont need to be marginalized again...I have had enough of it from growing up so oppressed.

Once again, my point is validated.

 

[dreama]

I got permission from one of my friends who has a CI to paste his paper here.

The approach of second language instruction I had experienced was Rational Orientation. I learned American Sign Language from a friend that I met at summer youth camp. Before that, I only used spoken language to communicate and I had thought that was the only language I will use growing up. I met that Deaf person who was fluent in ASL so I became fascinated with the language. From that moment, I acquired my second language by the Natural Approach.
The Natural Approach was how I acquired the language using comprehensible input from a person signing and listening (receptively). The teacher used pre-production using a visual approach such as pictures, pointing to things, taking us on field trips, then signing each. During early production, I was able to respond using one or two words based on the questions the teacher asked. I was able to sign out the words, such as yes, no and so on. Using the very basic vocabulary expressions, I started acquiring ASL as second language. As time went on, I moved to the next level, which was speech emergence where I started expressing myself in sentences using ASL. That was when I was 8 or 9 years old. Yes, I was delayed in language development after my mother discovered that I was an “oral failure” according the public school that I was put in. At last, at the age of 12, I was able to express myself at the intermediate level in ASL, in which I was able to use my thoughts and ideas to the questions the teacher asked. From then on, I knew ASL was my preferenced language choice to use to expressively and receptively myself due to 100% access to comprehension.
Sociopsycholinguistic Orientation is the appropriate approach for bilingual education for the Deaf due several reasons. First, the language input is exposed to the child based on location such as the home, community, and school setting. The child acquires the language by interacting with family, peers, or the people in the community in which is described as an individual psychology development that Piaget suggested. On another hand, Vygotsky believed that the child acquired and developed the language in a more formal method being taught by adults. A Zone of Proximal Development theory that Vygotsky developed was an approach to the Deaf child using what she/he can do alone and what she/he can do with help from an adult.
In the bilingual education setting, the students develop their L1 language using ASL and once they mastered it, the teacher will draw from their L1 language to teach English in the printed form. Once the students have mastered both languages, the teachers stimilately use ASL for communication in the air such as presentations, plays, or debates while using English for written reports. This method uses the CALP since it requires a higher level of cognitive skills. The students communicate using ASL with peers for socialization, which is using BALP due to the decreased need for cognitive thinking. It is very important that deaf students internalize their L1 language and be able to express themselves using CALP instead of BALP. If the students are at the BALP level with their L1 language, their ability to internalize is very restricted.
Growing up, with spoken language, I felt unable to draw out my inner emotions or to put my thoughts conceptuality making reading and writing extremely difficult for me to learn. Once I became fluent in ASL, reading and writing became so easier for me due to the ability to internalize naturally. I felt that the BiBi approach is what enabled me to get to this point of my life.

Thank u
Author's name witheld

for sharing.

 

[jillio]

I got permission from one of my friends who has a CI to paste his paper here.

The approach of second language instruction I had experienced was Rational Orientation. I learned American Sign Language from a friend that I met at summer youth camp. Before that, I only used spoken language to communicate and I had thought that was the only language I will use growing up. I met that Deaf person who was fluent in ASL so I became fascinated with the language. From that moment, I acquired my second language by the Natural Approach.
The Natural Approach was how I acquired the language using comprehensible input from a person signing and listening (receptively). The teacher used pre-production using a visual approach such as pictures, pointing to things, taking us on field trips, then signing each. During early production, I was able to respond using one or two words based on the questions the teacher asked. I was able to sign out the words, such as yes, no and so on. Using the very basic vocabulary expressions, I started acquiring ASL as second language. As time went on, I moved to the next level, which was speech emergence where I started expressing myself in sentences using ASL. That was when I was 8 or 9 years old. Yes, I was delayed in language development after my mother discovered that I was an “oral failure” according the public school that I was put in. At last, at the age of 12, I was able to express myself at the intermediate level in ASL, in which I was able to use my thoughts and ideas to the questions the teacher asked. From then on, I knew ASL was my preferenced language choice to use to expressively and receptively myself due to 100% access to comprehension.
Sociopsycholinguistic Orientation is the appropriate approach for bilingual education for the Deaf due several reasons. First, the language input is exposed to the child based on location such as the home, community, and school setting. The child acquires the language by interacting with family, peers, or the people in the community in which is described as an individual psychology development that Piaget suggested. On another hand, Vygotsky believed that the child acquired and developed the language in a more formal method being taught by adults. A Zone of Proximal Development theory that Vygotsky developed was an approach to the Deaf child using what she/he can do alone and what she/he can do with help from an adult.
In the bilingual education setting, the students develop their L1 language using ASL and once they mastered it, the teacher will draw from their L1 language to teach English in the printed form. Once the students have mastered both languages, the teachers stimilately use ASL for communication in the air such as presentations, plays, or debates while using English for written reports. This method uses the CALP since it requires a higher level of cognitive skills. The students communicate using ASL with peers for socialization, which is using BALP due to the decreased need for cognitive thinking. It is very important that deaf students internalize their L1 language and be able to express themselves using CALP instead of BALP. If the students are at the BALP level with their L1 language, their ability to internalize is very restricted.
Growing up, with spoken language, I felt unable to draw out my inner emotions or to put my thoughts conceptuality making reading and writing extremely difficult for me to learn. Once I became fluent in ASL, reading and writing became so easier for me due to the ability to internalize naturally. I felt that the BiBi approach is what enabled me to get to this point of my life.

Thank u
Author's name witheld

This is excellent, shel. Very eloquently explains the issues of acquisition and internalization that are ultimately so important in literacy and reading comprehension. I'm personally not a huge Vygotsky fan, although I have to admit he does have some valid and supportable theories--but I do think that Piaget was a genius!

 

[shel90]

This is excellent, shel. Very eloquently explains the issues of acquisition and internalization that are ultimately so important in literacy and reading comprehension. I'm personally not a huge Vygotsky fan, although I have to admit he does have some valid and supportable theories--but I do think that Piaget was a genius!

His paper explains the importance of having a strong L1 language in order to be able to read and write in simple terms so I thought I would share it. I feel that children with CIs in a oral-only program are not really able to internalize the spoken language. I did a lot of thinking today and I just realized that after learning and becoming fluent in ASL, my ability to write improved. I am able to put my thoughts better on paper. Looking back, it seems like I felt like I was a robot before learning ASL. I hope that makes sense?

 

[jillio]

His paper explains the importance of having a strong L1 language in order to be able to read and write in simple terms so I thought I would share it. I feel that children with CIs in a oral-only program are not really able to internalize the spoken language. I did a lot of thinking today and I just realized that after learning and becoming fluent in ASL, my ability to write improved. I am able to put my thoughts better on paper. Looking back, it seems like I felt like I was a robot before learning ASL. I hope that makes sense?

Yeah, it definately makes sense. We've discussed these internalization issues before. And in another thread (I think, maybe it was this one) I posted regarding the fact that even though spoken English may be the first and only language of an oral deaf individual, they will never use the language like a hearing native speaker even though they have a good command of the mechanics. And language is all about use and inference.

 

[deafdyke]

Those who hold philosophies such as the ones you subscribe to are responsible for creating the stigma of disabled for an entire community of people. Of course, I don't expect you to understand this, as those who subscribe to your philosphies also are completely incapable of empathy and critical analysis.

Exactly! One of the major reasons why i'm not invovled in orgs like AG Bell and SHHH, is b/c they really are responsible for the attitude that Sign is "speshal needs" and a "crutch"
If they were just promoting oral language aquastition as just another useful tool, VERY FEW deaf people would be against them. It's just that they really are extremely pro-mainstream assilimuation. They don't acknowledge the downsides of their methodology. They make it sound like those who have even a superfical grasp of spoken language will magically fit into hearing society, and that Sign is some "crutch" that will prevent that. You know rick, we who speak out against oral only aren't doing so b/c it's fashionable to do so in some deaf studies areas. MANY of us are very pro oral skills! Very few of us are " oh just raise dhh kids ASL only b/c to give them oral skills would be "sleeping with the enemy, and contribuating to their oppression"
I wish more oral therapists and schools saw their role as more giving their students another tool, rather then the " assimunate into the mainstream" attitude that's so prevalent with oral orgs and schools.
We are speaking out against oral only b/c we have experianced the downside of oral only. we feel that pro oral folks really minimize the downsides of oral only!
Shel, that's b/c the gross majority of dhh kids really don't get the "meat and potatos " of oral language. It's very common for oral dhh kids to make signficient grammar and syntax errors, and to have trouble with figures of speech and things like that.

 

[shel90]

Exactly! One of the major reasons why i'm not invovled in orgs like AG Bell and SHHH, is b/c they really are responsible for the attitude that Sign is "speshal needs" and a "crutch"
If they were just promoting oral language aquastition as just another useful tool, VERY FEW deaf people would be against them. It's just that they really are extremely pro-mainstream assilimuation. They don't acknowledge the downsides of their methodology. They make it sound like those who have even a superfical grasp of spoken language will magically fit into hearing society, and that Sign is some "crutch" that will prevent that. You know rick, we who speak out against oral only aren't doing so b/c it's fashionable to do so in some deaf studies areas. MANY of us are very pro oral skills! Very few of us are " oh just raise dhh kids ASL only b/c to give them oral skills would be "sleeping with the enemy, and contribuating to their oppression"
I wish more oral therapists and schools saw their role as more giving their students another tool, rather then the " assimunate into the mainstream" attitude that's so prevalent with oral orgs and schools.
We are speaking out against oral only b/c we have experianced the downside of oral only. we feel that pro oral folks really minimize the downsides of oral only!
Shel, that's b/c the gross majority of dhh kids really don't get the "meat and potatos " of oral language. It's very common for oral dhh kids to make signficient grammar and syntax errors, and to have trouble with figures of speech and things like that.

I agree..programs with this kind of philosophy are just too restrictive for me. I prefer to have both approaches for the children.