Why my wife and I want our children to hear and speak a little.

I was raised oral, speak English fluently and trained as an accountant after college. I always found work but I felt I couldn't reach my potential because of not being able to use the phone. So I only took roles that didn't need much phone work.

Accountancy is a very communication based role and using a TTY would have been difficult for clients to handle or get used to. So I specialised in large corporations where communication is almost 100% internal.

I always found for the most part that recruiters really wanted to help me but had I been able to use the phone I would have had a much wider choice for sure. There were some jerks but fortunately few and far in between - most hearies in the workplace were really nice. Actually I found more hearie jerks working at a deaf charity, which amazed me as I would have thought they would be better educated.

So I guess what I'm saying is that yes, being able to communicate face to face is a big plus but if phone use is not possible then job hunting may still be difficult. I have heard of positive stories of CI users being able to use the phone whereas before with hearing aids they could not but it's not a guarantee. I will be interested to see what happens in my case but I am keeping my expectations realistic.
 
R2D2 said:
I was raised oral, speak English fluently and trained as an accountant after college. I always found work but I felt I couldn't reach my potential because of not being able to use the phone. So I only took roles that didn't need much phone work.

Accountancy is a very communication based role and using a TTY would have been difficult for clients to handle or get used to. So I specialised in large corporations where communication is almost 100% internal.

I always found for the most part that recruiters really wanted to help me but had I been able to use the phone I would have had a much wider choice for sure. There were some jerks but fortunately few and far in between - most hearies in the workplace were really nice. Actually I found more hearie jerks working at a deaf charity, which amazed me as I would have thought they would be better educated.

So I guess what I'm saying is that yes, being able to communicate face to face is a big plus but if phone use is not possible then job hunting may still be difficult. I have heard of positive stories of CI users being able to use the phone whereas before with hearing aids they could not but it's not a guarantee. I will be interested to see what happens in my case but I am keeping my expectations realistic.
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Exactly, vocal communication without reading lips is important if you want to explore ANY careers.

My wife has moderate hearing loss and is able to carry conversations with anybody over the phone with her hearing aids. Our children simply has role models from each worlds to learn directly from :D
 
What a great thread!!!!! Is your kid going to an oral school or an oral program? Make sure that the program your kid is in, has well trained teachers and is specifcly for dhh kids. General Early Intervention programs(like HeadStart) don't really cut it most of the time. You could opt for a split placement option.....like divided between an oral program and a more traditional Deaf ed program.
Family Bond is more important than child/dorm mother/dad bond or none because they are herded like sardine in tinbox. Going to Public School, child get to experience the world more than ever. I have had lots of adventures during my childhood here in Tucson when I was day student at ASDB. I explored the city myself which those kids at ASDB are stuck in dorms.

I am grateful for mainstreaming too... even a total inclusion (no interpreters or self-contained classroom for deaf) just sit in class with all hearing peers and reading teacher's lip all day plus reading notes on overheads, copying them down as teacher write at the same time lecture us.

vp, any future children of mine happens to be deaf, I'll put them in mainstreaming instead.. I have been thru all kinds of school.. I prefer mainstreaming as well as oral deaf school but residential deaf school no thanks.
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Oh I don't know.....I think sometimes the importance of family is a little overrated. Not saying it ISN"T important, but just that not every family is a mine of emotional resources.
I think it's important to keep an open mind as to educational placement. Not all mainstream sittuions are ALL THAT.
I got lumped in with the "Who's President Reagan/Bush/Clinton types, I got refused really good accomondations and so struggled.....I had to deal with teachers who weren't trained to teach dhh kids.......I might mainstream my kids, but I would ALSO give them a chance at other types of schooling to find the best kind!
 
Fragmenter said:
Thank you, I'm flattered :)

It was pretty shocking for everybody involved MOSTLY because they knew how much I didn't like cochlear implant LOL.

After everybody absorbed the news and settled down, they were receptive to our reasons and wishes. They understood exactly why we wanted it for him. My parents gave us their support because of their love for us and they have faith in our judgement.

Basically, the first ten minutes on videophone was tough but after that, love and wisdom took over and everybody is at peace with the decision.
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You're a lucky man with such a caring and understandin family around you.
Hold on tight.
 
Limiting yourself to one language is like putting a high school diploma on your job resume and leaving the rest blank... especially when the language is ASL.

There is nothing wrong with ASL, it's just that you need to have the ability to communicate with the hearing people efficiently to boost chances of being successful.
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Nice excuse since hearing teacher taught those kids without ASL after all they taught SEE all those years.. Stop blaming ASL itself alone..

The answer is READ READ READ and WRITE WRITE that has nothing to do with our ears. Jeez! I know hearing people cannot write because they dont bother to read and read.. Thats why!!! I m so sick of listening all that BS.

Sighs! What a bigotry!
 
Fragmenter said:
Limiting yourself to one language is like putting a high school diploma on your job resume and leaving the rest blank... especially when the language is ASL.
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In case you forgot, most hearing people in the US only learn one language.

Also, Sweetmind and I aren't against English. We're just against the way it's usually taught to deaf children.

Fragmenter said:
There is nothing wrong with ASL, it's just that you need to have the ability to communicate with the hearing people efficiently to boost chances of being successful.
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There are multiple ways to communicate with hearing people--jaw-flapping isn't the only one. Why not teach hearing kids to sign too? If both are taught both, then maybe we'd have fewer communication problems. Most kids are fascinated by sign languages, even hearing kids.
 
Nice excuse since hearing teacher taught those kids without ASL after all they taught SEE all those years.. Stop blaming ASL itself alone..
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His is NOT blaming ASL as usual you misunderstood..


Fuzzy
 
Why not teach hearing kids to sign too? If both are taught both, then maybe we'd have fewer communication problems. Most kids are fascinated by sign languages, even hearing kids.
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Maybe you are unaware of it but actually quite many regular schools have brief classes about deaf pple and ASL. Some children learn a few signs, a few letters of the hand alphabet. My daughter happened to have it in elementary school.

But you MUST REALISE the deaf is so minority, that it is not worth to learn ASL just for the sake of it. If you never use what do you need it for?
Wake up man.


Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Maybe you are unaware of it but actually quite many regular schools have brief classes about deaf pple and ASL. Some children learn a few signs, a few letters of the hand alphabet. My daughter happened to have it in elementary school.

But you MUST REALISE the deaf is so minority, that it is not worth to learn ASL just for the sake of it. If you never use what do you need it for?
Wake up man.


Fuzzy
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Well said - that would be like demanding we all learn french, spanish, korean, japanese, german, etc simply because there are people here who speak those as their first languages.
 
Forcing the hearing people to learn sign language is like forcing the world to stop using stairs because you want everybody to use ramps.

It makes no sense.

Dear Sweetmind, you missed my point completely. Have you clicked on the link in the first post? Read through that. I imagine if they had some oral communications skills, they'd be doing better.

Glinuxman, hearing kids being fascinated with sign language is just that - a fascination.
 
gnulinuxman said:
There are multiple ways to communicate with hearing people--jaw-flapping isn't the only one.
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ef·fi·cient

Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.


There are no other way to communicate with the hearing EFFICIENTLY other than speech and hearing. Get that through your thick skull.

Yes, there are other ways to communicate with the hearing but you ain't gonna be able to hold a nice job if you do that. :deal:

That is the point of this thread. You have officially been schooled by me :ugh2:
 
Audiofuzzy said:
...
But you MUST REALISE the deaf is so minority, that it is not worth to learn ASL just for the sake of it. If you never use what do you need it for?
Wake up man.
Fuzzy
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Yep, so true. That is why I never learned it myself after being assimilated into the hearing world. You either use it or lose it.

Fragmenter said:
...
Glinuxman, hearing kids being fascinated with sign language is just that - a fascination.
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Indeed...just because a few are doing it doesn't make for an absolute trend either.
 
Fragmenter said:
ef·fi·cient

Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.


There are no other way to communicate with the hearing EFFICIENTLY other than speech and hearing. Get that through your thick skull.

Yes, there are other ways to communicate with the hearing but you ain't gonna be able to hold a nice job if you do that. :deal:

That is the point of this thread. You have officially been schooled by me :ugh2:
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#1. I can't believe you guys prefer being forced to use the hardest method of communication for you instead of fighting for equal rights. It's sad....

#2. I didn't say EFFICIENT. I just said jaw-flapping isn't the ONLY way.

#3. How could you think that speech is more efficient for the deaf person? It wastes a lot of time that could be better spent on improving literacy.

#4. There are deaf people in high-paying jobs who don't use their voices. Haven't you heard of interpreters?

#5. There's no need for personal attacks.
 
Fragmenter said:
Forcing the hearing people to learn sign language is like forcing the world to stop using stairs because you want everybody to use ramps.

It makes no sense.
[...]
Glinuxman, hearing kids being fascinated with sign language is just that - a fascination.
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#1. I did NOT say "force hearing people to only use sign language". I said to teach it as another language. You need to start reading my posts more carefully before assuming things like that because you keep putting words on my fingertips. ;) (Well, I don't type with my tongue!!)

#2. If someone is fascinated by something, that's often a strong motivator to become good at it.

#3. Signing has its benefits--long-distance communication across the room (no need to yell at someone across the room), ability to communicate with people behind windows (and no audio system), ability to describe things visually (I find it hard to explain certain visual things in English because of all the words needed, for example), ability to communicate without making noise (like in a library), ability to communicate underwater (like in scuba diving and snorkeling), etc, etc, etc....
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Maybe you are unaware of it but actually quite many regular schools have brief classes about deaf pple and ASL. Some children learn a few signs, a few letters of the hand alphabet. My daughter happened to have it in elementary school.
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I was more referring to language classes than to "Teach a few signs here and there".

Audiofuzzy said:
But you MUST REALISE the deaf is so minority, that it is not worth to learn ASL just for the sake of it. If you never use what do you need it for?
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ASL does have an artistic appeal to it, like ASL poetry and signed songs. ASL jokes are cool too because the humor is so different from the same ol' oral puns...
 
gnulinuxman said:
...
#2. If someone is fascinated by something, that's often a strong motivator to become good at it.
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Not necessarily...there is such a thing as the "Being cool" or "The latest thing to do"

#3. Signing has its benefits--long-distance communication across the room (no need to yell at someone across the room), ability to communicate with people behind windows (and no audio system), ability to describe things visually (I find it hard to explain certain visual things in English because of all the words needed, for example), ability to communicate without making noise (like in a library), ability to communicate underwater (like in scuba diving and snorkeling), etc, etc, etc....
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While that is true, most hearing aren't in that situation and sign doesn't work in the dark, around corners, though office 'cubes and etc. Sign isn't private plus the hearing generally don't like to broadcast to the world everything they say either.

BTW - In the library, people do whisper...works for me.
 
gnulinuxman said:
#1. I can't believe you guys prefer being forced to use the hardest method of communication for you instead of fighting for equal rights. It's sad....

#2. I didn't say EFFICIENT. I just said jaw-flapping isn't the ONLY way.

#3. How could you think that speech is more efficient for the deaf person? It wastes a lot of time that could be better spent on improving literacy.

#4. There are deaf people in high-paying jobs who don't use their voices. Haven't you heard of interpreters?

#5. There's no need for personal attacks.
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Speech isn't hard at all if you've been doing it all your life which is the case for my children. I didn't say jaw-flapping in the first place but you twisted it into that.

Literacy? Why do most deaf people that didn't waste their time with speech training struggle with literacy?

If you want to talk about jobs, then click on the link in my first post and come back here. I'm lucky to hold a nice job myself and I know I worked twice as hard as the next hearing person for that opportunity. I still work twice as hard to keep it.

About the personal attacks, isn't "jaw-flapping" a put down? This is not a one-way street, you peabrain.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy
Maybe you are unaware of it but actually quite many regular schools have brief classes about deaf pple and ASL. Some children learn a few signs, a few letters of the hand alphabet. My daughter happened to have it in elementary school.
I was more referring to language classes than to "Teach a few signs here and there".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy
But you MUST REALISE the deaf is so minority, that it is not worth to learn ASL just for the sake of it. If you never use what do you need it for?
ASL does have an artistic appeal to it, like ASL poetry and signed songs. ASL jokes are cool too because the humor is so different from the same ol' oral puns...[/QUOTE]


Sorry man but you seem to be living in some fairy land.
Why would I want to learn ASL if I don't need it? So if I accidently happen upon some deafie once in my say 80+ life I will be able to sing to him this one time ? God forbid he would exhaust himself trying to communicate with ME..

As for ASL artistry it may very well be, but since I can choose from a whole range of artistic epxression - music, film, theater, paintings, literarture, dance etc I preffer to have a free choice in that matter.


Yes it could be nice if more hearing pple would learn how to communicate with deaf pple but it also would be very nice if they learned Chinese, Spanish etc, learned about other disabilities, and many other things.
Unfortunately it create too big a burden on hearing pple to attend to everyone's needs.

Those who have to because for example they have someone with disability in their family is a different matter. That makes sense for them to learn anything they can about disability and ways of communication. The rest of world though have minimal chances to be involved with these things.


Fuzzy
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