For those who suport NCLB..take a hard look at this cartoon

KristinaB said:
If you are referring to the 2nd girl I mentioned, she has absolutely no speech skills at all and it is due to birth related issues. She was the product of a drug addicted parents and the mother was beaten numerous times. She is being raised by her Aunt. She is very proficient at reading and writing and I have seen samples and was amazed. Her mannerisms are at a 10 y/o level as is her ASL skills.
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Ah ah. Thanks for the clarification. Her speech is not related to her deafness then?
 
My thoughts:

All subjects that don't EXPLICITLY REQUIRE the reading of English (stuff like math, science, social studies, etc.) should be presented in the child's native language (the one they're most fluent in/use most often), no matter what that language is.

Tests that, in America, require English compreshension (literature, reading comprehension, grammar/conventions [that test where you have to point out which section of the sentence is wrong]) should be presented in English.

The child's native language should be used to help with the acquisition of the second language (in this example, English).

I don't care how many tests there are, as long as each child passes the last one with the skills they need to graduate, and they posess the knowledge to understand how to apply them to real life.

IMO, I don't think I passed the last criterion I just mentioned. I can pass tests like there's no tomorrow, but I don't have any knowledge of how to apply the skills I know to my life. I believe this is 99% because of the fact that my dad and (ex) stepmom didn't want accomodations for me, even though my mom and the school wanted to provide some (therefore, I didn't get any). But that's another story for another thread.
 
technically - No Child Left Behind

also known as Leave No Child a Dime
 
Can we please, please, please, not get back into talking about one and another's children? It's one thing for a poster to mention their own child, but totally another thing for a poster asking for something that is irrelevant.

I will honestly admit, I have one child who can speak with difficulty, cannot spell worth a darn, handwriting is atrocious and hates to read. My other child, can speak beautifully and very articulately, spells at a high college level, handwriting is atrocious and loves to read. Both are hoh, one mild, one moderate/severe. Neither wear HA's and will never get a CI. One who has never completed a state required exam for NCLB and the other who at the school received gold medals due to the high scores. The scores were the highest in that school district. That was for grades 2,3,4, & 5. Took one here in FL and the score was perfect, so they gave this child the one for 12th graders and it was a perfect score. The child who hates to read, can tell you all about most anything in American history you bring up.

Now, I willingly gave that info, but for everybody's sake, stop asking about another's children unless the said person willingly talks about their child regularly.
 
KristinaB said:
Can we please, please, please, not get back into talking about one and another's children? It's one thing for a poster to mention their own child, but totally another thing for a poster asking for something that is irrelevant.

I will honestly admit, I have one child who can speak with difficulty, cannot spell worth a darn, handwriting is atrocious and hates to read. My other child, can speak beautifully and very articulately, spells at a high college level, handwriting is atrocious and loves to read. Both are hoh, one mild, one moderate/severe. Neither wear HA's and will never get a CI. One who has never completed a state required exam for NCLB and the other who at the school received gold medals due to the high scores. The scores were the highest in that school district. That was for grades 2,3,4, & 5. Took one here in FL and the score was perfect, so they gave this child the one for 12th graders and it was a perfect score. The child who hates to read, can tell you all about most anything in American history you bring up.

Now, I willingly gave that info, but for everybody's sake, stop asking about another's children unless the said person willingly talks about their child regularly.
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Sorry but they cannot have it both ways, he and several others went out of their way to try and use my child to make a point, so now as far as I am concerned, their parenting decisions are fair game.
 
rick48 said:
Sorry but they cannot have it both ways, he and several others went out of their way to try and use my child to make a point, so now as far as I am concerned, their parenting decisions are fair game.
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:confused:
 
Deafguy25 said:
I can't believe that people are celebrating the demise of literacy! :eek3: Just because there are factions within pop culture that celebrate ignorance, doesn't mean that we should accept it.
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What you see as the demise of literacy I see as the redefinition of literacy.

Being able to read and write alone does not a person either literate or illiterate. Or to put it another way one critic said of a novel, "Its only redeeming quality is that the kind of person who would enjoy reading it, one hundred years ago would not have been able to read."

Just as Shakespeare was once a pop cultural phenomenon whose low brow humor showed the ignorance of the audience he catered too -- so does the reading of the plays by "literate" people today.

You see Shakespeare was meant to be watched on stage to be fully understood.

Whether you accept it or not a play signed in ASL is truer to the meaning of the original bard than a sit down reading of it in English in a classroom.

Deafguy25 said:
I can't believe that someone actually just said that being able to read and right is "overrated" and "outdated".
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The written language is over rated because it is considered to be superior to spoken/signed languages -- And it is not. Simply because it is virtually impossible to convey the full meaning of what is said/signed using the written word alone.

Being able to read and write is handy, it is useful, and it is fun -- But being able to do it does not increase one's intelligence, knowledge, or abilities one whit.

It was NOT the invention of the written language that augmented humanities ability to store and distribute knowledge. It was technology -- The invention of the printing press which made the ability to read and write a useful skill worth having.

Now we have NEW technology wherein the ability to pass videos with pictures, sounds -- and SIGNS to vast numbers of people even faster than the printed word. And with this new technology knowledge can be gained quicker, easier, faster, and more completely than with the printed word.

If you don't believe me go to sites like Khan Academy and RichKidSmartKid.com - Give your children a financial education head start! and DCMP.org :: Home
 
purplewowies said:
My thoughts:

All subjects that don't EXPLICITLY REQUIRE the reading of English (stuff like math, science, social studies, etc.) should be presented in the child's native language (the one they're most fluent in/use most often), no matter what that language is.

Tests that, in America, require English compreshension (literature, reading comprehension, grammar/conventions [that test where you have to point out which section of the sentence is wrong]) should be presented in English.

The child's native language should be used to help with the acquisition of the second language (in this example, English).

I don't care how many tests there are, as long as each child passes the last one with the skills they need to graduate, and they posess the knowledge to understand how to apply them to real life.

IMO, I don't think I passed the last criterion I just mentioned. I can pass tests like there's no tomorrow, but I don't have any knowledge of how to apply the skills I know to my life. I believe this is 99% because of the fact that my dad and (ex) stepmom didn't want accomodations for me, even though my mom and the school wanted to provide some (therefore, I didn't get any). But that's another story for another thread.
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Yes, this.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Seriously, I do think we should have testing to measure progress of education. While it technically makes sense that learning English is not needed, you can say that about ANY subject really. I mean come on, math? Do you REALLY need to know it nowadays? Everyone has a calculator on their phone and can easily do tips or divide to figure out who owes what. Science? Who the hell cares what genus an oyster is? History.. it happened, get over it.

So when you start questioning about learning English in the first place, you really are questioning on whether we should learn anything other than the basics of living. If people wanna know more, then so be it, there's books, internet, etc., but why should we be forced to learn most of the crap we learned in middle/high school that we never use for the rest of our lives?
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RIGHT!

When I was a kid all I ever wanted to know about was how to be a writer -- A subject I was never really taught. I was told there was plenty of time to learn that in college if I were ever smart enough to get there.

When I was interested in more advanced math I was told I was too young to know about such things. And was punished for using decimal fractions when other kids were doing regular fractions.

When I was in school a kid was punished for wasting his school time drawing pictures instead of studying.

When my wife was a girl all she wanted to learn was cooking. Fortunately for her they still taught home ec classes. Now they dropped those because of the budget cuts. So some future Rachel Ray, Paula Deen, or Paul Prudhomme is out there suffering through school waiting for his/her chance to master the art of cooking.

When my wife was in school there was a real trouble maker who fought with the teachers every day -- Why? Because the ONLY thing he wanted to do was to drive cat. The only thing he ever learned in school was to hate education and to hate teachers. To see the schools as a prison. When he escaped he earned a good living doing the one thing he loved. Drive cat.

So let me state what I think SHOULD be DONE in school.

Each child should be encouraged to find that which interests and excites them. Then they should be schooled in that including those things appertaining to it. For example you do not need to know trigonometry to cook but you do need to know proportions, buying, pricing, and how to read a recipe.

If they outgrow that subject and want to change to another or want to add a subject, then do so. Thus the student will be allowed to grow and change in their own way.

As for those children who have not found something to interest them, then yes some form of standard curriculum would probably be best.

I would suggest the history of freedom, the history of math, the history of language, the history of science and technology, dancing and tumbling, art and music, and how to share your toys.
 
Berry said:
RIGHT!

When I was a kid all I ever wanted to know about was how to be a writer -- A subject I was never really taught. I was told there was plenty of time to learn that in college if I were ever smart enough to get there.

When I was interested in more advanced math I was told I was too young to know about such things. And was punished for using decimal fractions when other kids were doing regular fractions.

When I was in school a kid was punished for wasting his school time drawing pictures instead of studying.

When my wife was a girl all she wanted to learn was cooking. Fortunately for her they still taught home ec classes. Now they dropped those because of the budget cuts. So some future Rachel Ray, Paula Deen, or Paul Prudhomme is out there suffering through school waiting for his/her chance to master the art of cooking.

When my wife was in school there was a real trouble maker who fought with the teachers every day -- Why? Because the ONLY thing he wanted to do was to drive cat. The only thing he ever learned in school was to hate education and to hate teachers. To see the schools as a prison. When he escaped he earned a good living doing the one thing he loved. Drive cat.

So let me state what I think SHOULD be DONE in school.

Each child should be encouraged to find that which interests and excites them. Then they should be schooled in that including those things appertaining to it. For example you do not need to know trigonometry to cook but you do need to know proportions, buying, pricing, and how to read a recipe.

If they outgrow that subject and want to change to another or want to add a subject, then do so. Thus the student will be allowed to grow and change in their own way.

As for those children who have not found something to interest them, then yes some form of standard curriculum would probably be best.

I would suggest the history of freedom, the history of math, the history of language, the history of science and technology, dancing and tumbling, art and music, and how to share your toys.
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I think she was actually disagreeing with you. She was saying that it IS all important, and that kids should learn all of it, including English.
 
Deafguy25 said:
I think she was actually disagreeing with you. She was saying that it IS all important, and that kids should learn all of it, including English.
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Umm, not really. She was lumping English with the other crap we learn in school as children.
 
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