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chelle23

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Hi all:wave:, I am an Australian Uni student and was deaf for a period of time when I was 8 years old due to illness. As a result, deafness and related issues have been an interest to me. I have been reading many of the posts on this site and it is fascinating to read the discussions on the various topics.

I am currently doing a bioethics subject and we have been discussing the 2002 case in the US of a lesbian couple who selected a sperm donor with a strong family history for deafness so that there would be a high chance that their child would be deaf. As you can imagine the discussion was quite heated, however I felt like I could not offer an informed opinion as I myself am not deaf. I cannot stop thinking about the class and wanted to find out the opinion of deaf people. Is it ethical for deaf couples to have the right to select for deafness in their child?

I read the "ATTN: Those who wants to do interviews/questions/surveys - Please read this FIRST" post and to clarify I am just really interested in this issue as I am also studying genetics. I don't know any deaf people to ask opinions of so here is the next best thing! What do you guys think?

Any opinions/thoughts would be most welcome, I love trying to understand both sides of the picture!

Thanks:P

oh, and if anyone is interested, hear is a link to a newspaper article about it that I found, as you can tell, this has really gotten to me! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1916462.stm:hmm:
 
Some people choose sperm donors with high IQs, athletic donors, donors with blue eyes, etc. Why not deafness?
 
Is it acceptable to weed out deaf because they view us as a terrible genetic disorder.

Deaf people are fine being deaf, otherwise they wouldn't choose a deaf child if they wish they were hearing. I would pick a deaf gene in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't dare weed out hearing gene (that's just as bad as weeding out deaf gene) so I rather let nature take it's course.

Let's put it this way, how would you feel if a deaf person wanted to know if her child is hearing (by checking the gene to see if their child is deaf) and if not, she quietly abort the baby? Terrible, huh? for a deaf person to discriminate her child because she is hearing. I feel the same way when people forbid us from having deaf children.

There was an article somewhere where a mother was furious that the doctor didn't screen deaf genes She did not want a deaf child. I feel as long as hearing people get to pick and choose, so should deaf people. Rather you like it or not.
 
test tube deaf

if i understand you right the lez couple are looking to "make" a deaf kid. that is SICK. nothing wrong with adopting a kid that is deaf already, but to bring a kid into the world just so your get your jollies by having a deaf kid goes too far. what's next? pick out a baby sperm donor so the baby will have no arms or legs so you can collect government funds on the thing? i am deaf, i am ok with being deaf, but to create a deaf? that couple should be sent back to the hellhole they grew up in.
 
If you feel that way, then don't get mad if someone tell you that you ought to be sterilize because deaf people breed deaf children, and deaf people can't raise children because they are incapable (you make it seem like deaf people are just too handicapped to live in this world, and beside everyone have something wrong with them and they need others)

The only thing I disagree with choosing diseases that give people a very short and painful lives.

Everything else, no harm is done. But personally, I don't think we really should be doing this at all. Our population is too high enough.
 
it is not about deaf people having a normal baby that is deaf. read the OP. this is about a TEST TUBE baby that is manufactured to be deaf. how can a sane person want to grow a diseased baby???? that is the same as wanting to grow a deaf baby. 2 deaf people have a deaf child of " their own " is not the same in any shape or form as picking a certain gene out of a sperm bank and matching it to another gene so that it will become deaf.
 
I remmy this case.
While I think that people need to take nature take its course or adopt dhh babies there's also the fact that being dhh is relatively benign. A baby can ADAPT to being dhh. It's not like Tay Sachs or something very serious.
 
sorry, some people don't see deaf as diseased like you do. Remember, they are deaf themselves and they live with it and being deaf never prevented them from communicating (unless someone forbid to... like "NO ASL" allowed)
 
you can not predict how a kid will react to being deaf. some do better than others. what if the one growing in the test tube is not going to be able to handle deafness as well as the new parents expect? there is no gene to pick that will make the kids deal with deafness easily. what if the kid from the test tube gets hit by a car because the kid was deaf? it is a "physical" abnormality you are going to burden a kid by your choice and your decision. if i were a test tube baby that was made deaf i would hate my parents
 
Wow guys, thanks for the responses!!

It is interesting how you commented:

deafgal001 said:
Let's put it this way, how would you feel if a deaf person wanted to know if her child is hearing (by checking the gene to see if their child is deaf) and if not, she quietly abort the baby? Terrible, huh? for a deaf person to discriminate her child because she is hearing. I feel the same way when people forbid us from having deaf children.
Click to expand...

because I read an article where a deaf couple wanted a deaf child, had a genetic test and apparently then went to a different clinic to abort the fetus when they found out it would be a hearing child. This, just like aborting a potentially deaf child is not right in my opinion.

I agree that deafness isn't a disease and that a fetus's life should not depend on whether it can hear or not. Genetic tests don't really seem necessary for such things when there are so many more serious and painful diseases that reduce the quality of life.

What I struggle to understand is the deaf 'culture' that is often used as an argument for the selection of deaf children. What defines deaf culture, aside from the obvious strong social connection made through the similar experience of being deaf.

Also, as commented "Some people choose sperm donors with high IQs, athletic donors, donors with blue eyes, etc. Why not deafness?" I feel like IQs and eye colour etc are not a sense. These features don't affect how you interpret the world, yeah, they may affect how you are related to by society, but then so does deafness I would assume. What gives you a right to decide how a child/individual interprets the world? It seems a little selfish, but then I am no longer deaf so thats why I don't feel like I can fully comment upon this. Should blind people be aloud to select for blind babies? These are the arguments/concepts I want to gain a different understanding about.:hmm:
 
chelle23 said:
Also, as commented "Some people choose sperm donors with high IQs, athletic donors, donors with blue eyes, etc. Why not deafness?" I feel like IQs and eye colour etc are not a sense. These features don't affect how you interpret the world, yeah, they may affect how you are related to by society, but then so does deafness I would assume. What gives you a right to decide how a child/individual interprets the world?
Click to expand...


I will respond to this section, as it relates to my comments...

I find that it is part of the reproductive cycle. Would you want to procreate with a person you found to be repulsively unattractive? Probably not. That is a choice. Would you want to procreate with a person that was very unintelligent? Probably not.

It is a built in part of all creatures that they want to find a mate that offers the best chance of their offspring's survival. Deafness could be considered a less than desirable issue to some potential parents. I would have no problem with it. To the couple that had a hearing fetus aborted for that reason only, you will have to answer for that decision. It is somewhat frightening to know there are people that would do this. A parent that tries to mold a child into a younger version of themselves will utterly fail. Children need to become an individual person. Parents are to guide them and to love them. If they prefer a deaf child, that is their choice. To refuse a healthy, hearing child? :hmm:
 
DDU said:
you can not predict how a kid will react to being deaf. some do better than others. what if the one growing in the test tube is not going to be able to handle deafness as well as the new parents expect? there is no gene to pick that will make the kids deal with deafness easily. what if the kid from the test tube gets hit by a car because the kid was deaf? it is a "physical" abnormality you are going to burden a kid by your choice and your decision. if i were a test tube baby that was made deaf i would hate my parents
Click to expand...

You are late deafened, So I am not surprised at the typical response such as "hit by a car" from you. I hear about that ALL THE TIME.
 
Also, as commented "Some people choose sperm donors with high IQs, athletic donors, donors with blue eyes, etc. Why not deafness?" I feel like IQs and eye colour etc are not a sense. These features don't affect how you interpret the world, yeah, they may affect how you are related to by society, but then so does deafness I would assume. What gives you a right to decide how a child/individual interprets the world? It seems a little selfish, but then I am no longer deaf so thats why I don't feel like I can fully comment upon this. Should blind people be aloud to select for blind babies? These are the arguments/concepts I want to gain a different understanding about. >>>> so it is more important to have all 5 senses than intelligent? What if someone have a learning disability.

The only thing that give deaf problems is the socializing itself, rarely deafness does not give them problems anywhere else. Just the attitude of hearing people that give them the most problems. To me, lost sense of hearing is the same as lost sense of taste or smell. It doesn't stop you from your daily activity.
 
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One more thing, I wouldn't choose a genetic trait that would cause a person to become late deafened after they developed a language. They usually have a hard time being visual and often grieve for their hearing. Such as Usher (spelling?).
 
chelle23--"It seems a little selfish, but then I am no longer deaf so thats why I don't feel like I can fully comment upon this. Should blind people be aloud to select for blind babies? These are the arguments/concepts I want to gain a different understanding about."
selfish indeed. going to a sperm bank just to "produce/manufacture" a deaf child is the height of ignorance . any parent, straight or gay, who wants to "grow" a deaf child artificially is irresponsible. if they are so desirous of a deaf child there are plenty to adopt, their fate has been chosen for then. suing a sperm bank to "produce" a deaf from their slot machine is to choose a life of deafness for an unsuspecting, defenseless life form. look at this AD web site, how many are HOH??? why are they getting high tech ads and CI"s?? because they want to hear!! you take that choice away from an "unborn"child. that is an example of bad deaf ethics
 
If they are not deaf themselves, it seems like they just want it for a curiosity. Bad idea. What when they get tired of the novelty?
 
The sad thing coming from this discussion are the thoughts and ideas that we deaf are broken or something is wrong with us.......

Mr. Chips M.Ed Deaf Ed.
 
rharryh said:
The sad thing coming from this discussion are the thoughts and ideas that we deaf are broken or something is wrong with us.......

Mr. Chips M.Ed Deaf Ed.
Click to expand...

Generally, I echo your sentiment.
 
DDU said:
chelle23--"It seems a little selfish, but then I am no longer deaf so thats why I don't feel like I can fully comment upon this. Should blind people be aloud to select for blind babies? These are the arguments/concepts I want to gain a different understanding about."
selfish indeed. going to a sperm bank just to "produce/manufacture" a deaf child is the height of ignorance . any parent, straight or gay, who wants to "grow" a deaf child artificially is irresponsible. if they are so desirous of a deaf child there are plenty to adopt, their fate has been chosen for then. suing a sperm bank to "produce" a deaf from their slot machine is to choose a life of deafness for an unsuspecting, defenseless life form. look at this AD web site, how many are HOH??? why are they getting high tech ads and CI"s?? because they want to hear!! you take that choice away from an "unborn"child. that is an example of bad deaf ethics
Click to expand...

you do know there are people with deaf pride and came from many generation of deaf family. They are not always interested in any hearing technologies.(I'm sure there some who are interested). They like being visual and communicate visually. It's usually deaf people who come from hearing family that take interested in techology and cure. Of course not every deaf people feel that way. There are mixture of deaf people and just because you feel that way doesn't mean another person have to.

as far as blind people, you have let them speak for themselves. But I am not going to be the one who tell them although I would not pick a blind baby because I feel they would have struggle with their daily activity and making sure their needs are met (like going store to get groceries)
 
For anyone to wish deafness upon a child is insane. I do see many deaf parents "hoping" to have a deaf child. It is so wrong IMO.

To sit there and actually breed deafness into a child in a test tube and not giving them a "choice" is like how deaf people view CI on a child and not giving them a choice.

Can't have it both ways.
 
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