why not aspire to speak?

shel90 said:
Still the attitudes and views are still there by not being a part of the Deaf community.

I think any organization should represent all members of the deaf/hoh community anyway.
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That's why I am involved with Hands & Voices!!!
 
faire_jour said:
That's why I am involved with Hands & Voices!!!
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I know you arent a pure AGBeller...

just trying to explain to you why many of us distrust that organization.

This may be a bad analogy..it is like if someone creates an organization with Hilter's name but dont practice the same beliefs as he does. It still would kinda turn people who have been hurt by Hilter's practices and ideology off no matter what.
 
shel90 said:
I know you arent a pure AGBeller...

just trying to explain to you why many of us distrust that organization.

This may be a bad analogy..it is like if someone creates an organization with Hilter's name but dont practice the same beliefs as he does. It still would kinda turn people who have been hurt by Hilter's practices and ideology off no matter what.
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Not a bad analogy.
 
shel90 said:
I know you arent a pure AGBeller...

just trying to explain to you why many of us distrust that organization.

This may be a bad analogy..it is like if someone creates an organization with Hilter's name but dont practice the same beliefs as he does. It still would kinda turn people who have been hurt by Hilter's practices and ideology off no matter what.
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I agree. I would never join them or give them my money, but I will use their expertise to help my child.
 
Hands & Voices
Hands & Voices is a nationwide non-profit organization dedicated to supporting families and their children who are deaf or hard of hearing, as well as the professionals who serve them. We are a parent-driven, parent/professional collaborative group that is unbiased towards communication modes and methods. Our diverse membership includes those who are deaf, hard of hearing, and hearing impaired and their families who communicate orally, with signs, cue, and/or combined methods. We exist to help our children reach their highest potential.
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inspirabull said:
Hands & Voices? By the way this thread and others like it help understanding so much thanks to all of you!
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Google them. They are the best. They have a quote that is something along the lines of "Whatever works for your child is what makes the decision right"
 
netrox said:
What's wrong with learning to speak and write well?
What's wrong with having an organization like AGB that rewards deaf people who have great speaking skills despite their deafness?

Deaf organizations always award deaf people based on their ASL skills and their talents but not once did I hear of a contest where deaf people are awarded for their excellent speech skills.

AGB is NOT qualified to make decisions on their signing abilities just as NAD is NOT qualified to make decisions based on their speaking skills.
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Got a question...something about this statement in bold is bothering me.

Are you implying that if one doesnt speak well, one cant write well?

Or are you implying that culturally Deaf people dont aspire to write well?
 
shel90 said:
Got a question...something about this statement in bold is bothering me.

Are you implying that if one doesnt speak well, one cant write well?

Or are you implying that culturally Deaf people dont aspire to write well?
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Yeah, that bothered me too. I'm sure it was a mistake...(I hope)
 
faire_jour said:
Google them. They are the best. They have a quote that is something along the lines of "Whatever works for your child is what makes the decision right"
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I hope the parents are using the right tool for their child in order to prepare them to communicate and socialize with bigger population, not the tool that works for only parents and their child.
 
Jiro said:
who taught the concept of oralism?

Just because we had segregation laws enacted by government back in old day doesn't mean the government wasn't at fault for black people's mistreatment/abuse/death by the society. Blame the racist people, not government, right?
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Right. But can blame organizations that continues to support the old beliefs.
 
Problem is:

If a person is oral enough even the best intentioned hearing person will forget and treat them as hearing. Turn their back on them while still speaking, etc.

If a hearing person isn't going to go out of their way to meet an obviously deaf person why should they go out of their way meet someone half way who looks and acts just like a hearie?

If I were Deaf I would learn to read lips, but I would never use anything but ASL -- Cut out the chaff quick and find the people who are worth spending my time knowing.
 
shel90 said:
Got a question...something about this statement in bold is bothering me.

Are you implying that if one doesnt speak well, one cant write well?

Or are you implying that culturally Deaf people dont aspire to write well?
Click to expand...


This bothers me as well.

My ex BF had no oral skills at all yet his written English is better than mine and >>I<< speak well enough to pass for hearing. I am wondering if Netrox is implying that good speech and good writing skills go together? If so, I can cite one classmate of mine who used to be in the oral program with me who had excellent speech skills but his writing skills weren't great.


I've met many culturally Deaf people who want to write well. I do not believe that speech and writing skills go together. I know quite a few who can write well even though they have limited to no speech skills at all.
 
netrox said:
What's wrong with learning to speak and write well?

What's wrong with having an organization like AGB that rewards deaf people who have great speaking skills despite their deafness?

Deaf organizations always award deaf people based on their ASL skills and their talents but not once did I hear of a contest where deaf people are awarded for their excellent speech skills.

AGB is NOT qualified to make decisions on their signing abilities just as NAD is NOT qualified to make decisions based on their speaking skills.
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with learning to speak and write well. In America reading and writing are actually subjects taught in school. (Yes, Deaf people get education too.) Deaf people are also bombarded with vocal lessons. From an audiological viewpoint there are varying degrees of "hearing loss". A Deaf person who is profoundly Deaf would not benefit from vocal instruction. However, this DOES NOT mean that Deaf people can't read.

Being Deaf has nothing to do with reading. Deaf people can learn to read. Deaf people communicate just as well as hearing people whether they are oral or not.

The view that hearing, speech, and communication are all the same thing and are all necessary components to reading and writing well is at the heart of audism, a form of discrimination. Deaf people are tired of speech being deified. When a Deaf girl is presented as being someone who has overcome a handicap and has become "normal" it tends to set Deaf people off. There is a long history of oppression behind it.

The thing that Deaf people have been trying to tell the hearing world for ages is basically these things:

1) SPEECH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH READING. Phonics is not necessary to learn to read.

2) DEAF PEOPLE CAN READ. Consequently Deaf people can write as well. An example would be all of the Deaf people here at AllDeaf.com.


Again, there is nothing wrong with aquiring speech. The agenda behind the display is what is wrong. Because 3) DEAF PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID. This assumption is usually made by the hearing world, not the Deaf world. Deaf people already know they aren't stupid. However they constantly have to deal with these inaccurate portrayals. The "look at the girl who overcame her disability!" approach breeds a lot of misunderstanding and hatred.
 
deafskeptic said:
This bothers me as well.

My ex BF had no oral skills at all yet his written English is better than mine and >>I<< speak well enough to pass for hearing. I am wondering if Netrox is implying that good speech and good writing skills go together? If so, I can cite one classmate of mine who used to be in the oral program with me who had excellent speech skills but his writing skills weren't great.


I've met many culturally Deaf people who want to write well. I do not believe that speech and writing skills go together. I know quite a few who can write well even though they have limited to no speech skills at all.
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Not only that..there are thousands, if not millions of hearing people who are illiterate.
 
faire_jour said:
Are you saying that you actually *hope* that children end up failing and being language delayed and mentally and emotionally hurt, so you can feel better and say "I told you so!"????

That is sick....
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You misunderstood me. I understand you do not want your deaf child to be alike me and others. It is sad. You and my mother are no difference in those belief but I forgave her and thank her for helping those deaf adults who were worst off than me. I know many deaf oralists and they are no difference from me . I never said I told you so. I had a big dream for those deaf children with ASL do well in this world. Only people who stopped us from having those big dream come true is AGBers and others who are against ASL. They are the one who destroyed our lives. To me they are true evil doers.


Now you have met me very deaf person who is limited to 4 th grader writer and this alldeaf forum is full of bright people here who write very well. Not many deaf adults with poor writing skills come here and made posts here, many of them were forced to learn to speak first before learn sign language. Now u think you understand me and what I am saying here? No cuz I have to stop come here and make posts because every time I make posts here and I am getting tired from them who misunderstood me. Anyway good luck with your daughter, I hope she gets straight A's in public school and be successful but do not use her as an example for other parents of deaf child. I am done with you.
 
Tujae said:
There's nothing wrong with learning to speak and write well. In America reading and writing are actually subjects taught in school. (Yes, Deaf people get education too.) Deaf people are also bombarded with vocal lessons. From an audiological viewpoint there are varying degrees of "hearing loss". A Deaf person who is profoundly Deaf would not benefit from vocal instruction. However, this DOES NOT mean that Deaf people can't read.

Being Deaf has nothing to do with reading. Deaf people can learn to read. Deaf people communicate just as well as hearing people whether they are oral or not.

The view that hearing, speech, and communication are all the same thing and are all necessary components to reading and writing well is at the heart of audism, a form of discrimination. Deaf people are tired of speech being deified. When a Deaf girl is presented as being someone who has overcome a handicap and has become "normal" it tends to set Deaf people off. There is a long history of oppression behind it.

The thing that Deaf people have been trying to tell the hearing world for ages is basically these things:

1) SPEECH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH READING. Phonics is not necessary to learn to read.

2) DEAF PEOPLE CAN READ. Consequently Deaf people can write as well. An example would be all of the Deaf people here at AllDeaf.com.


Again, there is nothing wrong with aquiring speech. The agenda behind the display is what is wrong. Because 3) DEAF PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID. This assumption is usually made by the hearing world, not the Deaf world. Deaf people already know they aren't stupid. However they constantly have to deal with these inaccurate portrayals. The "look at the girl who overcame her disability!" approach breeds a lot of misunderstanding and hatred.
Click to expand...

:gpost: Phonics has never been my forte in English. I have no idea how to pronounce many of the words I know.

One hearing person thought I didn't know anything about fashion because I thought the name Chanel was pronounced like you would pronounce channel. :roll: Granted, I am not extremely knowledge about it.
 
deafskeptic said:
:gpost: Phonics has never been my forte in English. I have no idea how to pronounce many of the words I know.

One hearing person thought I didn't know anything about fashion because I thought the name Chanel was pronounced like you would pronounce channel. :roll: Granted, I am not extremely knowledge about it.
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I am the opposite of you...I have always been good with phonics..I dont know why that happens! Weird! lol

However, despite being good at phonics, I cant get my writing to the level like you and many other deaf people who grew up with ASL.
 
shel90 said:
Got a question...something about this statement in bold is bothering me.

Are you implying that if one doesnt speak well, one cant write well?

Or are you implying that culturally Deaf people dont aspire to write well?
Click to expand...

True culturally Deaf people who does not speak well write far better than me. :)
 
jazzy said:
You misunderstood me. I understand you do not want your deaf child to be alike me and others. It is sad. You and my mother are no difference in those belief but I forgave her and thank her for helping those deaf adults who were worst off than me. I know many deaf oralists and they are no difference from me . I never said I told you so. I had a big dream for those deaf children with ASL do well in this world. Only people who stopped us from having those big dream come true is AGBers and others who are against ASL. They are the one who destroyed our lives. To me they are true evil doers.


Now you have met me very deaf person who is limited to 4 th grader writer and this alldeaf forum is full of bright people here who write very well. Not many deaf adults with poor writing skills come here and made posts here, many of them were forced to learn to speak first before learn sign language. Now u think you understand me and what I am saying here? No cuz I have to stop come here and make posts because every time I make posts here and I am getting tired from them who misunderstood me. Anyway good luck with your daughter, I hope she gets straight A's in public school and be successful but do not use her as an example for other parents of deaf child. I am done with you.
Click to expand...

:gpost: :gpost:
 
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