Do you feel that hearing teachers restrict Deaf children in learning?

rockdrummer said:
I can't speak for everyone and would only suggest they may be frustrated due to the inability to communicate. Just as a deaf person may become frustrated with a hearing person that fingerspells everything.
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Even if the deaf person has good oral skills?
 
shel90 said:
.................................................................................. I really would love to be a consultant for the mainstreamed programs and help educators who have no training in deaf ed effectively teach deaf/hoh chidlren but I dont think I will get the funding for that anytime soon due to the bad economy and budget cuts. I am seriously thinking of working for the dept of special ed on the federal level. I just need to take more classes on policy making and all that. Just takes time to build the experience and skills to get qualified to work at that level.
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I think that is an outstanding way to reach those deaf kids that are lumped into special ed programs. Take it to them instead of relying on parents and schools to ensure the deaf kids are in good DHH programs instead of special ed programs.
 
shel90 said:
Even if the deaf person has good oral skills?
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Shel, I can't speak for all situations and I obviously can't argue with the experieces of others. I can only say that there is frustration that I am sure of. To play devils advocate here I do recall posts from some deaf folks that suggested they should not have to ask a hearing person to speak clearly and face them when they speak. As much as it seems obvious there are ignorant people out there that simply don't understand and need to be asked. Now having said that I do agree that if you have good oral skills and have politely asked the person to speak clearly and face you there should not be any problems. But if a deaf person just expects that from everyone then I can see where there might be some problems.
 
rockdrummer said:
I think that is an outstanding way to reach those deaf kids that are lumped into special ed programs. Take it to them instead of relying on parents and schools to ensure the deaf kids are in good DHH programs instead of special ed programs.
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Yea, I just have to do more research on what creditials I would need.


*bad thing about it..no more summers off!*:aw:
 
Lighthouse77 said:
Simple, We don't have to worry about those hearing people. They are more likely the people who don't really want to take their time to communicate with you Verbally if you are a oral deaf anyway. Pen and paper always seem to be the answer to people like them anyway.
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You have missed the point.
 
rockdrummer said:
Shel, I can't speak for all situations and I obviously can't argue with the experieces of others. I can only say that there is frustration that I am sure of. To play devils advocate here I do recall posts from some deaf folks that suggested they should not have to ask a hearing person to speak clearly and face them when they speak. As much as it seems obvious there are ignorant people out there that simply don't understand and need to be asked. Now having said that I do agree that if you have good oral skills and have politely asked the person to speak clearly and face you there should not be any problems. But if a deaf person just expects that from everyone then I can see where there might be some problems. I
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This is coming from my own family because FJ talked about deaf chidlren needing to communicate with their families or sharing their language. Well, I did what they wanted me to...developed good oral skills but yet, I still get comments like these or get left out completely. I dont care about other hearing strangers..I expect that from them but from my own family? that is the point I am trying to make with FJ..too many of us grew up left in the dark or get treated like that because it is too much work for them to deal with us as Lighthouse referred to.

Many of my deaf friends and many deaf children I have worked with all complained about the same thing about their families except for those whose families learned ASL or deaf families.
 
rockdrummer said:
You have missed the point.
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no I didn't . People get frustrated with us easily as we do with them rather we speak or sign. Pen and paper is the answer. My son's doctor was trying to ask me a question. I couldn't hear or understand what he was trying to ask. So he got frustrated with me and snapped at me because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted.

The only good thing about using my voice is commanding people : I want this. I want that. Do this and do that. (because that's the only thing I can do if there's no ease of flow of conversation)
 
shel90 said:
This is coming from my own family because FJ talked about deaf chidlren needing to communicate with their families or sharing their language. Well, I did what they wanted me to...developed good oral skills but yet, I still get comments like these or get left out completely. I dont care about other hearing strangers..I expect that from them but from my own family? that is the point I am trying to make with FJ..too many of us grew up left in the dark or get treated like that because it is too much work for them to deal with us as Lighthouse referred to.

Many of my deaf friends and many deaf children I have worked with all complained about the same thing about their families except for those whose families learned ASL or deaf families.
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That is just sad and I don't know how to respond to that other than to say I am sorry that happens. I also appreciate your sharing these things because it gives me something to be considerate of.

No matter how you slice it it's a difficult situation and the inaiblity to communicate is in my view a huge part of the problem.
 
Wanted to add

Also, despite having good oral skills, I still encountered those comments at school, sat in the classroom totally lost, and dealt with stress of trying to keep up with what everyone was saying.

That's why I feel it should be a given right for all deaf/hoh children to learn ASL and be exposed to a community like them so they wont experience isolation (even with good oral skills) constantly and have a place to go to to feel connected somehow or get full access to communication.
 
rockdrummer said:
That is just sad and I don't know how to respond to that other than to say I am sorry that happens. I also appreciate your sharing these things because it gives me something to be considerate of.

No matter how you slice it it's a difficult situation and the inaiblity to communicate is in my view a huge part of the problem.
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Matters were made worse by keeping me in an oral-only enivornment 24/7 really was stressful. If I had ASL and the Deaf community, I wouldnt have self-esteem issues. My brother had that so he didnt have to deal with isolation 24/7.

That's why so many of us fight for rights to ASL and full access to communication and language without any barriers because it is a human right to have. Why do a lot of hearing people or society argue with us that ASL is not needed for every deaf child? If the child grows up and decides not to make ASL a part of their lives, at least they have that choice to make.
 
shel90 said:
Matters were made worse by keeping me in an oral-only enivornment 24/7 really was stressful. If I had ASL and the Deaf community, I wouldnt have self-esteem issues. My brother had that so he didnt have to deal with isolation 24/7.

That's why so many of us fight for rights to ASL and full access to communication and language without any barriers because it is a human right to have. Why do a lot of hearing people or society argue with us that ASL is not needed for every deaf child? If the child grows up and decides not to make ASL a part of their lives, at least they have that choice to make.
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There is alot of discussion about LRE (least restrictive environment) that I think makes sense. My guess is that the LRE would vary depending on how deaf someone is and for those that have useful hearing perhaps sign language may be restrictive.
 
rockdrummer said:
There is alot of discussion about LRE (least restrictive environment) that I think makes sense. My guess is that the LRE would vary depending on how deaf someone is and for those that have useful hearing perhaps sign language may be restrictive.
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How can sign language ever be restrictive? CODAs use it and still get full access to language and communication via sign language. Spoken English is not fully accessible to deaf children as it is to hearing children.
 
If the child grows up and decides not to make ASL a part of their lives, at least they have that choice to make.
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That's right. In fact there were alot of things I was taught in school that didn't become a part of my life. Some math is one of it. Or history (I can't remember anything I learned in history).. If I choose to use those and make sure I don't lose it, it is because it is important to me.
 
shel90 said:
How can sign language ever be restrictive? CODAs use it and still get full access to language and communication via sign language. Spoken English is not fully accessible to deaf children as it is to hearing children.
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I am talking about deaf people that are able to gain useful hearing either with HA's or CI. If then can hear and understand why would they need ASL in a learning environment.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
That's right. In fact there were alot of things I was taught in school that didn't become a part of my life. Some math is one of it. Or history (I can't remember anything I learned in history).. If I choose to use those and make sure I don't lose it, it is because it is important to me.
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Can't the same be said for any subject including language?
 
rockdrummer said:
I am talking about deaf people that are able to gain useful hearing either with HA's or CI. If then can hear and understand why would they need ASL in a learning environment.
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So then they are hearing children, arent they?

Besides, if they cant hear like hearing children, they still miss out on what is being said especially in large group settings.

I will have to disagree with you on that one.
 
shel90 said:
So then they are hearing children, arent they?

Besides, if they cant hear like hearing children, they still miss out on what is being said especially in large group settings.

I will have to disagree with you on that one.
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I didn't say they are hearing children. They are deaf / HOH children that assisted, have the ability to make use of sounds and are able to use and understand spoken language.
 
rockdrummer said:
I am talking about deaf people that are able to gain useful hearing either with HA's or CI. If then can hear and understand why would they need ASL in a learning environment.
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It depends on people who does not need ASL. But i think SOME of them won't admit due to the society.

My hubby can speak beautifully and can hear with his CI at the most of time. It's MY words because i have witness him. I know he won't admits to me that he sometimes need an interpreter at the big meeting on the miliary base. Everyday, He came home, and ask me not to talk to him for a while or so because his eyes are very tiring of staring/reading people's lips and he gets headache by trying to listen carefully to make sure that he won't misunderstand his coworkers. I feel bad for him! He grew up in a hearing environment and all his life until he first time learns ASL at age 19. He loves it only if he is around with deaf people or interpreters or so. But sad that's how he was raised the way hearing environment he is in. I can't speak for him but i can see that. It's not fair.

One CI user girl at my girl's school, and i witness that she got a ci when she was 2. Her mother does sign pretty good. i watched her talking to other girls and i could tell that she gets all her works by listening to other girls talking and keep focusing on them like not normal to me. It shows me obviously that she works hard to listen repeatly to make sure she won't miss it. Because she was born deaf then got a HA at a few months old and then got a CI at 2 years old. Yet she acts like she has to work harder than normal hearing girl who don't really pay attention but listen so naturally.

I feel bad for her.
 
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