Deaf teachers losing jobs because of English

zerodog said:
I strong to believe that we should have some kind program under federal program; US Department of Education. It doesn't include as "DEAF" Education for another program which is my concerned because my question. Are they aware about it?

Here the link, National Dissemination Center for Children with Disabilities, but I felt it not enough source for parent/teacher/school get benefit information.
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Yes, the US Dept of Education is aware of Deaf education but it is under the category of special ed and usually that means it is approached from a medical model perspective.
 
shel90 said:
Wishful thinking...most parents dont know sign language let alone to be able to advocate for their children for their rights to having educators who are fluent in it.

As u already seen, two parents here in this thread seemed more concerned with the English aspect than the ASL aspect. That's the impression I got.
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It is more important to be able to read and write fluently than to sign well. Sorry. The truth is that 99% of the people that my child will encounter in life will be using English. Therefore she needs to be fluent in that language. In this case, reading and writing. This should be the focus of her education. Yes, ASL will be the means, but English should be the priority. It is her connection to information everywhere.
 
faire_jour said:
It is more important to be able to read and write fluently than to sign well. Sorry. The truth is that 99% of the people that my child will encounter in life will be using English. Therefore she needs to be fluent in that language. In this case, reading and writing. This should be the focus of her education. Yes, ASL will be the means, but English should be the priority. It is her connection to information everywhere.
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If a teacher doesnt sign well, then the students are not likely be able to learn good English. I have seen it happen way too often. If u dont believe it, that's your perogative.
 
faire_jour said:
It is more important to be able to read and write fluently than to sign well. Sorry. The truth is that 99% of the people that my child will encounter in life will be using English. Therefore she needs to be fluent in that language. In this case, reading and writing. This should be the focus of her education. Yes, ASL will be the means, but English should be the priority. It is her connection to information everywhere.
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No offence, but spoken and written language goes hand in hand. Spoken English is NOT the language of the Deaf, but rather ASL. English, French, or whatever language of the majority should be the written language. However most education pertaining to English is done aurally. Written English should be taught through lectures done in ASL.

Yes, reading and writing should be priority, but the debate focusing on the children's education is based on HOW they should be taught. Believe me, it is HARD to teach written English without being able to communicate with the child in the first place. My grandmother should know, she taught me how to read and write when I was a toddler long before I got hearing aids or learned how to speak at the age of 8. It was hard on her.

The only reason why I am changing my position is because I didn't know there are questions that test your aural skills on the exams.
 
shel90 said:
How can they if they cant understand their teachers in the first place?

Like I and Deafbajalgal said before, we know a few teachers who have brought their students' reading and writing skills up to par but were unable to pass these tests themselves. Also, I know peoeple who cant teach worth of shit who have passed this test.

It is all about one's ability to teach the content and motivating the students rather than having perfect English skills.
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and put the love of learning in the students!

Can you point me to an example of Praxis English test? I haven't really able to find one. I want to see what was it that made it so hard. Thanks!
 
shel90 said:
If a teacher doesnt sign well, then the students are not likely be able to learn good English. I have seen it happen way too often. If u dont believe it, that's your perogative.
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This is a problem in other fields of science, too, like climate and evolution/creationism. 85 percents of researchers blame human acitivity for climate changes, while only 49 percent of americans do the same. What scientist and average joe understand is often quite different.

The oralist movement, who belive oral and english skills are much more important than ASL is a typical example of scientists and ordinary people disagreeing. The arguments from the oralist movement are also striking similar to those who oppose evolution and climate, like "there is no proof", and climate researchers keep on pulling up proof after proof.

Could be interesting with a survey checking if oralists are more prone to belive in creationism and oppose climate changes than those who favor real bilingual education.
 
flip said:
This is a problem in other fields of science, too, like climate and evolution/creationism. 85 percents of researchers blame human acitivity for climate changes, while only 49 percent of americans do the same. What scientist and average joe understand is often quite different.

The oralist movement, who belive oral and english skills are much more important than ASL is a typical example of scientists and ordinary people disagreeing. The arguments from the oralist movement are also striking similar to those who oppose evolution and climate, like "there is no proof", and climate researchers keep on pulling up proof after proof.

Could be interesting with a survey checking if oralists are more prone to belive in creationism and oppose climate changes than those who favor real bilingual education.
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I don't see any correlation there at all.
 
Buffalo said:
and put the love of learning in the students!

Can you point me to an example of Praxis English test? I haven't really able to find one. I want to see what was it that made it so hard. Thanks!
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I will see what I can dig up...Right now, I am using pager
 
flip said:
This is a problem in other fields of science, too, like climate and evolution/creationism. 85 percents of researchers blame human acitivity for climate changes, while only 49 percent of americans do the same. What scientist and average joe understand is often quite different.

The oralist movement, who belive oral and english skills are much more important than ASL is a typical example of scientists and ordinary people disagreeing. The arguments from the oralist movement are also striking similar to those who oppose evolution and climate, like "there is no proof", and climate researchers keep on pulling up proof after proof.

Could be interesting with a survey checking if oralists are more prone to belive in creationism and oppose climate changes than those who favor real bilingual education.
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I think I see what you mean...it took me a while to think it thru but I do think I get what you are saying. LOL!
 
shel90 said:
Yes, the US Dept of Education is aware of Deaf education but it is under the category of special ed and usually that means it is approached from a medical model perspective.
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so.. their educational put as category as special ed as medical model to Deaf community? Where is the Deafhood?
 
Reba said:
I don't see any correlation there at all.
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Ok, I was a bit unclear. Let me explain again.

Some people here don't get it when Shel90, a scholar of modern deaf education, try to explain how ASL and english skills are connected in deaf ed. It's perhaps not totally accurate, but I will label those who disagree with Shel09 as "oralist" for simplificy. Proof supporting what Shel90 is saying here, have been pulled up houndreds of times, perhaps thousands, on alldeaf. Still oralists here claim this is false, because they see and belive something else. Research on deaf ed is getting more correlative for each year, pointing in the direction that Shel90 is explaining here.

We see the same thing happening when climate researchers try to explain the average american that they got evidence, and 90 percent of researchers agree with each other, showing human activities are the reason the climate is changing. Still, less than half of the americans belive this to be true, no matter how many pages of proof researchers pull up.

Oralist refusing to listen to bilingual research is a typical problem in science, showing the challenge of informing average joe about findings in science. Sciences of medicine, physics, religion, psychology, health etc etc battle with the same challenges.
 
flip said:
Could be interesting with a survey checking if oralists are more prone to belive in creationism and oppose climate changes than those who favor real bilingual education.
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You're funny!!!
 
Usually there's "proof" on both ends. In your example, there's proof that the climate is changing due to Americans. But there's also proof that the climate is changing as normal as it has been for the past eons.

That's why we fight, because the "proof" is not enough to overcome the the other sides' "proof".
 
flip said:
Some people here don't get it when Shel90, a scholar of modern deaf education, try to explain how ASL and english skills are connected in deaf ed. It's perhaps not totally accurate, but I will label those who disagree with Shel09 as "oralist" for simplificy. Proof supporting what Shel90 is saying here, have been pulled up hundreds of times, perhaps thousands, on alldeaf. Still oralists here claim this is false, because they see and belive something else. Research on deaf ed is getting more correlative for each year, pointing in the direction that Shel90 is explaining here.
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And the oralists refused to listen to the deaf people who was on the receiving end of deaf education.

You got a good analogy to what is going on with Deaf Education.

I think Reba didn't get it because she is very religious and most likely believe in Creationism over Evolutionism.
 
flip said:
:) Hope you got my idea right. LOL
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:D

I have seen more than enough in the 10 plus years in the field of deaf ed from oral only programs, TC, and BiBi...

I would rather have a teacher who is fluent in both languages than not being fluent in just one language but with the crappy pay and burn out rate that comes with being a teacher, I dont think we will get to see too many teachers who are fluent in both. That's why I said if u want the standards so high, then ante up the pay and we will see more people interested in the field of deaf ed who possess these skills.
 
shel90 said:
If a teacher doesnt sign well, then the students are not likely be able to learn good English. I have seen it happen way too often. If u dont believe it, that's your perogative.
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I was talking about the student, not the teacher. I would rather have a student who's sign is ok, and is a fluent reader and writer, than someone who signs brilliantly and struggles to read.
 
faire_jour said:
I was talking about the student, not the teacher. I would rather have a student who's sign is ok, and is a fluent reader and writer, than someone who signs brilliantly and struggles to read.
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I get the impression that the oralists want the deaf kids to be really great at speaking and listening, nevermind their English/reading/academia skills.
 
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