Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[Jiro]

I just wanted to suggest you consider re-wording the phrase. "excuse" is a loaded word.

well I used your words - reason/explanation

 

[Daredevel7]

Who said anything about lazy? I said parents use excuses not to learn it. Not the same thing at all.

Like I said, it is nothing more than an excuse for not putting forth the effort.

Not unreasonable to say lazy = "not putting forth the effort".

Anyway, I would say for most of the parents, their "excuses", as you call em, are more likely for the benefit of their child, not the parents, as some may believe. The disagreement is simply what the actual benefits are.

 

[shel90]

The grocery store is an uncontrolled hearing enviroment. It has quite a bit of backgroud noise.

But in school she would have an FM that would put the teacher's voice directly into her CI and hearing aid.

what he meant was during a stimuleanous conversations especially as the child gets older and the subjects are more complex...


So if the FM only transmits the teacher's voice to her CI only, what about being able to learn from classroom discussions or debates? She would need to hear and understand what is being said around her not just from the teacher...

 

[faire_jour]

Not unreasonable to say lazy = "not putting forth the effort".

Anyway, I would say for most of the parents, their "excuses", as you call em, are more likely for the benefit of their child, not the parents, as some may believe. The disagreement is simply what the actual benefits are.

Exactly! The parents want their children to be suceessful in life. They just measure it in a different way than you do. They disagree with the way to get them the things we all want children to have.

 

[KarissaMann05]

I just wanted to suggest you consider re-wording the phrase. "excuse" is a loaded word.

Well, I was told by common comments from parents. They are just not happy with kids' deafness... That explains why Melika's child's school is happened right there.

Don't get me wrong... I saw some more kids with CI around my area... :shrug:

For various and unreasonable intentions! ={

 

[Jiro]

The grocery store is an uncontrolled hearing enviroment. It has quite a bit of backgroud noise.

but this is between you and your daughter. what about your daughter and other people? (such as strangers).

But in school she would have an FM that would put the teacher's voice directly into her CI and hearing aid.

again - a controlled variable (teacher) in a controlled environment (classroom). Your daughter would not be carrying around FM system to give to stranger in real world, isn't she? Would your daughter be able to understand any random conversation from stranger without knowing the context of the conversation? I cannot understand any conversation if I do not know the context of it.

It's hard to understand but things change a LOT when your daughter gets older and the limitation will become very noticeable especially in teen year.

 

[faire_jour]

what he meant was during a stimuleanous conversations especially as the child gets older and the subjects are more complex...


So if the FM only transmits the teacher's voice to her CI only, what about being able to learn from classroom discussions or debates? She would need to hear and understand what is being said around her not just from the teacher...

I have never once considered putting my child in a mainstream class, so I have not investigated what they would do. I really am not the one to ask, also, she's in kindy, not a lot of in-depth debate going on.

 

[shel90]

Exactly! The parents want their children to be suceessful in life. They just measure it in a different way than you do. They disagree with the way to get them the things we all want children to have.

I wish the world was such a rosy place in regards to this topic...

U have no idea how much I wish for that. The truth is among the hundreds of my friends and the hundreds of children I have met in my 10 plus years in the deaf community, a majority of their parents never had the desire to learn ASL mostly because of the reasons similiar to my parents...

Sure there are a few that do learn ASL or have the reasons that u stated but almost all of my friends' parents look down on ASL as the language for lower functioning people.

 

[jillio]

The grocery store is an uncontrolled hearing enviroment. It has quite a bit of backgroud noise.

But in school she would have an FM that would put the teacher's voice directly into her CI and hearing aid.

If you think that an FM system is going to overcome all of the background noise and distraction in a classroom full of kids, you are kidding yourself.

And the grocery store with you is not an uncontrolled environment. She has you, and no one else, to pay attention to. You are keeping her focused on you and you only. It is very much a controlled environment with that type of 1 on 1 interaction. And that type of 1 on 1 interaction is not the norm in a classroom.

 

[jillio]

Not unreasonable to say lazy = "not putting forth the effort".

Anyway, I would say for most of the parents, their "excuses", as you call em, are more likely for the benefit of their child, not the parents, as some may believe. The disagreement is simply what the actual benefits are.

There are any number of reasons that parents don't put forth the effort. Laziness is but one possibility, and not the most frequent.

 

[jillio]

Exactly! The parents want their children to be suceessful in life. They just measure it in a different way than you do. They disagree with the way to get them the things we all want children to have.

And it should be measured from the perspective of the deaf, since that is who and what the child is. Not from the perspective of the hearing.

 

[Daredevel7]

but this is between you and your daughter. what about your daughter and other people? (such as strangers).


again - a controlled variable (teacher) in a controlled environment (classroom). Your daughter would not be carrying around FM system to give to stranger in real world, isn't she?

It's hard to understand but things change a LOT when your daughter gets older and the limitation will become very noticeable especially in teen year.

But...... can a native ASL child even talk to a "stranger in a real world"? If she gets lost, can she even say her own name? If a deaf 4 year old child can speak her own name...... I would think she'd do better than a native ASL child who just signs.

 

[faire_jour]

but this is between you and your daughter. what about your daughter and other people? (such as strangers).


again - a controlled variable (teacher) in a controlled environment (classroom). Your daughter would not be carrying around FM system to give to stranger in real world, isn't she? Would your daughter be able to understand any random conversation from stranger without knowing the context of the conversation? I cannot understand any conversation if I do not know the context of it.

It's hard to understand but things change a LOT when your daughter gets older and the limitation will become very noticeable especially in teen year.

The fm is designed for classroom use so that the kids don't miss out.

Yes, I believe that in the next three years she will be able to carry on a conversation with a stranger and understand everything that was said, especially if it is one on one.

And yes, in the teen years I expect that she will be using an interpreter.

 

[Jiro]

But...... can a native ASL child even talk to a "stranger in a real world"? If she gets lost, can she even say her own name? If a deaf 4 year old child can speak her own name...... I would think she'd do better than a native ASL child who just signs.

Well we're specifically talking about an ASL child who can talk. A 100% deaf child isn't going to be able to communicate with hearing anyway. Pen + Paper will have to.

 

[shel90]

I have never once considered putting my child in a mainstream class, so I have not investigated what they would do. I really am not the one to ask, also, she's in kindy, not a lot of in-depth debate going on.

The younger ages, nope there is not a lot of in-depth debates or discussions in the classroom.That starts to happen around 3rd grade when the children are entering the pychological stages for critical thinking skills...that's when so many children in that age range get referred to the Deaf schools...


I am talking about in general..I should have stated that instead of referring to your child. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[shel90]

But...... can a native ASL child even talk to a "stranger in a real world"? If she gets lost, can she even say her own name? If a deaf 4 year old child can speak her own name...... I would think she'd do better than a native ASL child who just signs.

remember, most, if not all, are proposing giving every child both.

Nobody here has advocated for ASL only without any opportunities for oral language develoment.


Besides, I know so many deaf people who have no oral skills who have learned skills to interact with heairng people just fine.

 

[jillio]

But...... can a native ASL child even talk to a "stranger in a real world"? If she gets lost, can she even say her own name? If a deaf 4 year old child can speak her own name...... I would think she'd do better than a native ASL child who just signs.

Native ASL users don't "just sign". You are assuming that because a child is a native ASL user, they can't use spoken language at all. My son is a native ASL user. He can and does, use speech when necessary, and has since he was a child. At the age of 4, he could state not just his name, but my name, our telephone number, and our address just in case it was ever necessary for him to do so. You are buying into those old stereotypes and myths perpetrated by the oralists.

 

[Daredevel7]

Sure there are a few that do learn ASL or have the reasons that u stated but almost all of my friends' parents look down on ASL as the language for lower functioning people.

I have this deaf friend who went to a residental school and college for the deaf. Although he does speak, he primarily signs. I practice my ASL with him. I asked him if he does PSE or ASL since he does talk while signing. He said that he does do mostly PSE but does ASL if he talks to "low functioning" people. I was... shocked..... TOTALLY did not expect that... I guess some Deaf people think this also???

 

[Jiro]

The fm is designed for classroom use so that the kids don't miss out.

Yes, I believe that in the next three years she will be able to carry on a conversation with a stranger and understand everything that was said, especially if it is one on one.

I see... one on one? what about group setting? party setting? in car at night? noisy hallway? I'm assuming your daughter's hanging out with mostly hearing groups.

And yes, in the teen years I expect that she will be using an interpreter.

cool

 

[faire_jour]

Well we're specifically talking about an ASL child who can talk. A 100% deaf child isn't going to be able to communicate with hearing anyway. Pen + Paper will have to.

I contend that a child who is an ASL school and home enviroment will not become a fluent spoken language user. If they don't have practice and exposure it just won't happen.