Israel Vows to Expand Gaza Airstrikes as Death Toll Passes 200

[Jiro]

This link: World Tribune — Hamas says new air defense system kept Israeli helicopters at bay could explained why Israel retaliating by force. This was in March 2008. What is more is that the rockets had reached deeper into Israel: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/world/middleeast/01rockets.html (showing a picture of a hole in the classroom ceiling). I can see why Israel want to nip the problem in the bud.

you want to nip this in the bud? maybe do something about Iran and Syria? According to article you provided -

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss intelligence matters, said that Hamas appeared to have relied on a combination of black-market entrepreneurs and help from its longtime patrons Iran and Syria to procure rocket parts.

and

The officials said the extent to which Iran and Syria directly supplied Hamas was murky because arms shipments were difficult to track. Yet they generally agree about the smuggling route: by land across the Sinai Peninsula, often aided by Bedouin tribes, and through the warren of tunnels under Egypt’s border into Gaza.

And... after all.. this is probably another same old 9/11 tactic. You scare people into justifying the military strikes by saying - they have sophisticated weapons... they have supply routes from Iran & Syria... they are trained by Iranian camps... etc..

 

[Buffalo]

what about the fact that they refused to leave their homeland that have been in their generations for many years.... and that was forcibly taken away by Israelis. Do you bet your ass that you will fight to death if UN choose to remove Ontarian residents out to Ontario to somewhere else in Canada/America/Alaska/British Colombia to make more space for Quebec people?

same thing

That is exactly what happened to the original Israel. It was taken over by the Romans and many of the Jewish people were expelled. Arab countries have expelled Jewish people as well. Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries - Middle East Quarterly

 

[Jiro]

That is exactly what happened to the original Israel. It was taken over by the Romans and many of the Jewish people were expelled. Arab countries have expelled Jewish people as well. Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries - Middle East Quarterly

ok but that was ancient time. this is modern time. this is not a way to do it. beside - who in the right mind would settle in the country surrounded by countries who do not like you?

 

[BradB08]

People tend to forget that we're talking about 21st Century Israel and Palestine, not 11th Century Israel and Palestine.

 

[Reba]

As mentioned previously

That quote was from 1953, so he's not even discussing the same territories that have been fought over since then.

That 1953 generation of Arabs had lived in the lands that were divided into Israel and Jordan. They were allowed to stay in their home areas until they began to foment rebellion in Jordan, and terrorism in Israel. Then they became personae non gratae throughout the area. The Arabs who assimilated in their countries are still there. The ones who didn't assimilate called themselves Palestinians, rebelled and got kicked out.

 

[Reba]

and here's a video of Israeli IDF conversation with Palestinians. It's captioned but you need a good eye to see it.

I watched it, and it's interesting on a personal level but it's not a justification for either side.

 

[Buffalo]

what's the matter? Are you shy to use Israelis' hateful comments along with Iranian/Syrian Presidents and Hamas? I'll help you there.

Quote:
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
--Prime Minister of Israel David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

27 July 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We have never wanted to dispossess the Arabs [but] because Britain is giving them part of the country which had been promised to us, it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion” David Ben-Gurion - Wikiquote

Quote:
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

She spoke the truth. There never was a state of Palestine. I will let Joseph Farah explain more on this in this link: Palestinian people do not exist

Quote:
"Among ourselves, it must be clear that there is no place in the country for both peoples together. With the Arabs we shall not achieve our aim of being an independent people in this country. The only solution is Eretz-Israel, at least the west part of Eretz-Israel, without Arabs . . . And there is no other way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries. Transfer all of them, not one village or tribe should remain . . ."
–Joseph Weitz, entry in his diary for 1940 (quoted in his article: ‘A solution to the Refugee Problem: An Israeli State with a small Arab Minority’, published in Davar, 29 September, 1967.

He didn't say about killing them but transferring them. I already post a link where the Muslims was involved in killing Jewish people during the Holocaust.

Quote:
"We must do everything to ensure they (the Palestinian refugees) never do return."
– David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948

this quote talked about exchanged of the lands: "In July 1937, the Peel Commission recommended partition of Palestine into two states: a Jewish state to comprise 15 percent of the territory west of the Jordan River and an Arab state, to be united with Transjordan, itself carved from eastern Palestine in 1921. To prevent friction between the two communities, the commission suggested "a transfer of land and, as far as possible, an exchange of population" between the Jewish and the Arab states. The idea was not to transfer either community outside the bounds of Palestine but rather to the territories of the respective Arab and Jewish states, nor even to transfer the Jewish state's entire Arab population." Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited: The Post-Zionist Critique - Middle East Quarterly

Here's an Israeli that sympathized with Palestine

Quote:
"Let us not today fling accusations at the murderers. Who are we that we should argue against their hatred? For eight years now they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their very eyes, we turn into our homestead the land and the villages in which they and their forefathers have lived."
– Moshe Dyan, 1953, quoted by Uri Avneri in Israel without Zionists, p. 134. "

You didn't included the rest of his quote....
"We should demand his blood not from the Arabs of Gaza but from ourselves...Let us make our reckoning today. We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and gun barrel, we shall not be able to plant a tree or build a house." IMEU: What leading Israelis have said about the Nakba It doesn't sound like that Dayan was sympathizing with Palestine. Did you know that Moshe Dayan was involved in 4 wars. Yes he was also involved with peace talks with Palestinians. Moshe Dayan

I wish you would included the link to your posts so I don't have to google for them. I thought the rule in here is whatever you quote, you need to include the link.

 

[Buffalo]

so you never been there? well then.... you don't know Middle East any more than I do... I plan on visiting Middle East someday... my former college roommate is a relative of Bahrain's oil ministry family. He's been meaning to invite him over to his mansion. :-o

Ah, so you have been getting information on Middle East issues from your former roommate just like you complained that DLOP_024 is getting his information from his mother.

 

[DLOP_024]

if you're basing your view solely on what you hear from your mom & dad and you didn't bother learning about two sides on this issue for yourself... and you didn't know about matrilineal lineage... well.... yea... jillio does know a little more than you....

sorry. it doesn't hurt to pick up something and read about it. for now - try

Why Israel Can't Win

Can Israel Survive Its Assault on Gaza?

I already asking all my familys and they SUPPORT ISRAEL WAR!!! SHUT UP!!!!

Hamas is damn TERRORISTS!!! HAMAS GO TO HELL!!!

 

[DLOP_024]

People tend to forget that we're talking about 21st Century Israel and Palestine, not 11th Century Israel and Palestine.

YES!!! what I am talking about damn 21st Century but Jiro kept bring all the past, Jiro sound like he is not white, he is arab! he is a muslim! he should know better, Israel is already exist and everything WON'T CHANGE!!! Let Jews live there and let Jews be happy!!! I did talk with many Palestinians who is NOT Muslim and they are Christian, they said THEY HATE HAMAS!!! they have no problem with Israel, Only Hamas do have a problem! Jiro really a Terrorists? I should report to CIA about Jiro, he could be terrorist! I don't care, I want World to stay SAFE! all TERRORISTS GO TO DEATH!!!!!!

Stop Arab Muslim push Jews to be suffer, This is ENOUGH!!! I did talking with my mom and my familys who is Jewish, they said Jews is Oldest Religious than Christian and Muslim (Islam) .... do you know who did created Christian? By Jews and do you know who did created Islam Muslim? By Jews!

I don't understand why Jews created everything but everything make Jews down!

Remember ... who did try side with Gaza for Hamas mean who are SUPPORT Hamas as Terrorists! who are part of Terrorists, everybody better be careful!

 

[Maria]

YES!!! what I am talking about damn 21st Century but Jiro kept bring all the past, Jiro sound like he is not white, he is arab! he is a muslim! he should know better, Israel is already exist and everything WON'T CHANGE!!! Let Jews live there and let Jews be happy!!! I did talk with many Palestinians who is NOT Muslim and they are Christian, they said THEY HATE HAMAS!!! they have no problem with Israel, Only Hamas do have a problem! Jiro really a Terrorists? I should report to CIA about Jiro, he could be terrorist! I don't care, I want World to stay SAFE! all TERRORISTS GO TO DEATH!!!!!!

Stop Arab Muslim push Jews to be suffer, This is ENOUGH!!! I did talking with my mom and my familys who is Jewish, they said Jews is Oldest Religious than Christian and Muslim (Islam) .... do you know who did created Christian? By Jews and do you know who did created Islam Muslim? By Jews!

I don't understand why Jews created everything but everything make Jews down!

Remember ... who did try side with Gaza for Hamas mean who are SUPPORT Hamas as Terrorists! who are part of Terrorists, everybody better be careful!

FYI, Jiro is Korean.

 

[DLOP_024]

FYI, Jiro is Korean.

he is korean? no wondering! Thanks

 

[Maria]

he is korean? no wondering! Thanks

You're welcome.

 

[Jiro]

I wish you would included the link to your posts so I don't have to google for them. I thought the rule in here is whatever you quote, you need to include the link.

the quotes are found in any links that shows up in google thus no need to link it. I usually include link for information/paragraph/etc.

 

[Jiro]

Ah, so you have been getting information on Middle East issues from your former roommate just like you complained that DLOP_024 is getting his information from his mother.

actually no. I'm referring to DLOP's negative issue about Muslims

 

[Jiro]

I already asking all my familys and they SUPPORT ISRAEL WAR!!! SHUT UP!!!!

Hamas is damn TERRORISTS!!! HAMAS GO TO HELL!!!

YES!!! what I am talking about damn 21st Century but Jiro kept bring all the past, Jiro sound like he is not white, he is arab! he is a muslim! he should know better, Israel is already exist and everything WON'T CHANGE!!! Let Jews live there and let Jews be happy!!! I did talk with many Palestinians who is NOT Muslim and they are Christian, they said THEY HATE HAMAS!!! they have no problem with Israel, Only Hamas do have a problem! Jiro really a Terrorists? I should report to CIA about Jiro, he could be terrorist! I don't care, I want World to stay SAFE! all TERRORISTS GO TO DEATH!!!!!!

Stop Arab Muslim push Jews to be suffer, This is ENOUGH!!! I did talking with my mom and my familys who is Jewish, they said Jews is Oldest Religious than Christian and Muslim (Islam) .... do you know who did created Christian? By Jews and do you know who did created Islam Muslim? By Jews!

I don't understand why Jews created everything but everything make Jews down!

Remember ... who did try side with Gaza for Hamas mean who are SUPPORT Hamas as Terrorists! who are part of Terrorists, everybody better be careful!

look - I have never said I supported Hamas. I said PALESTINIANS. Like I said - this is UNNECESSARY and EXCESSIVE retaliatory strikes that have resulted in numerous of Palestinians deaths. You want to win the hearts and minds of Palestinians to work with Israel? then stop this bombards.

As long as you do this to Palestinians - they will support anybody who can hurt Israelis. They don't care about politics. They simply want REVENGE. You kill their family... they will support anybody who can kill your family too. simple as that.

 

[SeanB]

Israeli government should keep in mind that those mindless extremists does not run the country. It's the IDF's aggressive response that fueled Palestinians/Arabs' anger which empowered the mindless extremists to "speak" for them. You think Palestinians care about politic? You think they care about who did what? No. No. No. They only care about making some living and bringing food to home. If you make it difficult for them - they will hate you. Stop making Palestinians' lives difficult.

Simple as that. As Sun Tzu said - "A ruler cannot mobilize his armies in a rage; a commander cannot incite a battle in the heat of the moment. Move if it is to your advantage; bide your time if it is not. The enraged and passionate can be restored to good humor, but the dead cannot be brought back to life."

That's how you win the hearts and minds of people.

I understand the plight of the CIVILIAN population, though I'm talking about the EXTREMISTS, which is what Reba and I have been pointing out. Otherwise, this site is definitely the wrong place to discuss this sort of thing! LOL

 

[SimpleMan]

I am not about about read through the 300+ posts on this thread, but I did read a few posts on the first page and the whole last page. As I have stated before, I would never condone war, and I am just like (hopefully) every other person on the planet in believing that war sucks. However, from my knowledge, Hamas has launched thousands of missiles into Isreal, with only a decreased number of missiles daily during the cease fire most of last year. While I am opposed to war, once again, as with Iraq, sometimes it is inevitable.

Isreal deserves as much to exist as the USA does. Hamas is a terrorist organization of radical Palistinians no better than Al-Qaeda that has vowed to destroy Isreal and blatantly defies any attempts at peace as proven by their actions. Isreal has every right to defend themselves, and their people from Hama's attacks, therefore their current offensive is completely justified and their people are grateful.

Yes, innocent civilian Palestinians have died. That is one of the most unfortunate consequences of war, but the blame does not lie with Isreal, just as the civilians in Iraq that have died cannot be blamed on the US. The fault lies with the evil that is these fanatical organizations such as Al-Qaeda and Hamas that believe nobody other than their people deserve to live. In this respect, it is once again like another fanatic from history, Adolf Hitler, who believed in his Aryan Race. In the case of WWII, most of the world united to take care of that lunatic, but once again as is the case now, thousands of innocent civilians died (example: carpet bombing of German cities). Can anyone say that 'we' (US, Great Britain, Russia, etc) shouldn't have bombed the crap out of Germany in WWII in attempts to dethrone Hitler?

These lunatics like Al-Qaeda and Hamas exist. Hamas is ferrying their weapons and supplies through tunnels from Egypt and are receiving aid from Iran and Syria. Hamas has not stopped attacking Isreal since even before they occupied the Gaza strip, even during a diplomatically attained cease fire. These are all undisputed facts.

I believe Isreal has every right to defend its people from the Hamas attacks, and believe the news I read/hear of the Isrealis that are thankful that their government is finally doing something to stop the terror they have been in every day since Hamas arrived in Gaza. I do still feel sorry for the innocent Palestinians, just as I feel sorry for the innocent Iraqis, that have died as a result of actions from the fanatical terrorists using them as shields.

In all of this, I am reminded of and grateful for my right to bear arms, so that if there were terrorists in my city, I could do my part in defending myself and showing them they have no right to be here. I only wish the innocent Palestinians and Iraqis had the same opportunities, as then the likes of Saddam, Al-Qaeda, and Hamas would never have been an issue.

 

[Jiro]

I understand the plight of the CIVILIAN population, though I'm talking about the EXTREMISTS, which is what Reba and I have been pointing out. Otherwise, this site is definitely the wrong place to discuss this sort of thing! LOL

they have been fighting for over 60 years. Obviously what Israelis' doing to fight against "terrorists" are not working. the more you fight, the more Palestinians are going to support anybody whose goal is to inflict violence on Israel. A very limited retaliatory strike is what IDF should do. Prolonged war is always unpopular. 700+ dead Palestinians. You tell me if Palestinians are interested in working it out with Israelis peacefully.

 

[Jiro]

Can anyone say that 'we' (US, Great Britain, Russia, etc) shouldn't have bombed the crap out of Germany in WWII in attempts to dethrone Hitler?

we now have missiles with precision capability, advanced surveillance technology, and special ops. That's why it's not necessary to carpet bomb Iraq and Afghanistan like we did on Germany.

These lunatics like Al-Qaeda and Hamas exist. Hamas is ferrying their weapons and supplies through tunnels from Egypt and are receiving aid from Iran and Syria. Hamas has not stopped attacking Isreal since even before they occupied the Gaza strip, even during a diplomatically attained cease fire. These are all undisputed facts.

I believe Isreal has every right to defend its people from the Hamas attacks, and believe the news I read/hear of the Isrealis that are thankful that their government is finally doing something to stop the terror they have been in every day since Hamas arrived in Gaza. I do still feel sorry for the innocent Palestinians, just as I feel sorry for the innocent Iraqis, that have died as a result of actions from the fanatical terrorists using them as shields.

In all of this, I am reminded of and grateful for my right to bear arms, so that if there were terrorists in my city, I could do my part in defending myself and showing them they have no right to be here. I only wish the innocent Palestinians and Iraqis had the same opportunities, as then the likes of Saddam, Al-Qaeda, and Hamas would never have been an issue.

yes but Palestinians have elected Hamas.... a violent hardliner organization... to represent for them. why? because they're fed up with their own political wings who got nothing done for decades. Israelis had plenty of opportunities to settle this peacefully... despite of terrorist attacks. But if you keep retaliating on Palestinian territory that always result in high causality for every terrorist attacks... then it's not going to work. Israelis need to get past this and proceed with extreme prudence if they want to end this decades-old war. After all.... Israelis are the one with big guns, bigger territory, big money, etc... and Palestinians are the one living in shaggy homes with economic sanctions imposed by Israelis... I think we both know who should suck it up and work it out.