Yesterday at the post office ...

Rollover

Member
..
no.
No.
and NO.

We're blind, not retarded. I can find a door by myself, thank you. Dogs are nothing more than feedback tools. YOU control THEM. Without O&M skills, a blind person is just a lost man with a dog.

OKay... you got me! Now I'm really confused! The blind can not see where the doors or steps are so the service dog job is to guide the person? How does the blind person see where the door is to control the dog?
Unfortunately I've never encountered a blind person to know and wished I did.
 

Rollover

Member
Lol, I know what you mean cuz my local ATM DRIVE-THRU has Braille stamped on it!


Yeah it's funny!
Has anyone notice themselves in the elevator searching for the floor buttons that even through we see, we fumble which button to press the first time?
I do it all the time and yes, I see the braille and wonder if it's hard for the
blind too.
 

GraysonPeddie

Eye/Hear/Speech Impaired
Premium Member
A blind person uses his cane to gather information from the ground and that the tip of the cane lets the blind know when s/he reaches the wall or a door.

A guide dog (that can see) is suppose to help the blind person better but to each their own.
 

GraysonPeddie

Eye/Hear/Speech Impaired
Premium Member
Why's that, Grayson? Would you rather trip and fall than to have a dog helping you?

I'm blind with my left eye, but my right eye has vision and I can see where I'm going. I don't have any cataracts or gloucoma or anything since my right eye doesn't have any "artifacts" however my right eye can't move in any direction.
 

Hear Again

New Member
Yeah it's funny!
Has anyone notice themselves in the elevator searching for the floor buttons that even through we see, we fumble which button to press the first time?
I do it all the time and yes, I see the braille and wonder if it's hard for the
blind too.

I'm totally blind and sometimes have trouble locating the correct elevator button, but this has more to do with the fact that the buttons themselves are always in a different configuration from one elevator to the next.

For example, on one elevator, the buttons may be on the left panel and on another elevator, they may be on the right.

Another difference is in the way the buttons are arranged. Depending on how many floors a building has, there may be a single vertical row of buttons or a horizontal row of two or more buttons.

Finally, the shape of the buttons themselves can also differ from one elevator to the next. Some buttons are square while others are round. Some buttons are concave while others are convex.

If I have particular difficulty finding the floor I need, I'll just ask for sighted assistance. Works everytime. :)
 
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Hear Again

New Member
OKay... you got me! Now I'm really confused! The blind can not see where the doors or steps are so the service dog job is to guide the person? How does the blind person see where the door is to control the dog?
Unfortunately I've never encountered a blind person to know and wished I did.

A blind person uses environmental sounds (such as the sound of traffic or echolocation), landmarks, scents and the ground underneath their feet to know where they are.

For example, if they are near the entrance of a grocery store but don't know exactly where the door is, they can listen for the sound of people entering/leaving the store or the automatic door to guage where the entrance might be.

If the blind person is using a dog, they will instruct it to "find the door" or give it commands such as "left" or "right" in order to get themselves within the general vicinity of the door.

If a blind person has been to a particular location before, but ends up veering (walking too far to the left or right), they may encounter landmarks that will give them a clue as to where they are.

For example, the blind person might encounter a bicycle stand on a sidewalk which would tell them that they've veered and need to stop and move slightly to the left or to the right to maintain their orientation.

Does this help clarify?
 
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Hear Again

New Member
I believe the blind service dog should go to the post office because how can
the blind person find the door or step without the dog? The dog guides the way, right?

Not all blind people use guide dogs. In fact (if I remember correctly), only 3% of the blind population uses dogs.

As for how a blind person can find the door or step, they do so with good O&M (orientation and mobility)/cane skills.

By the way, the dog guides the way, but it is the blind person who is in control.
 

Hear Again

New Member
I know. It's just the concept of a written sign intended for blind people that gets me. You think they'd have it better worded. :giggle:

I don't think this sign was directed towards blind guide dog users because they already know that their dogs are allowed in public establishments under the ADA and are given small booklets which contain laws of all 50 states regarding this.

The only thing about the sign I don't like are the words "seeing eye" dog. The correct term is "guide dog" or "dog guide." Technically speaking, using the term "seeing eye" dog is a copyright infringement based on the fact that there is a school in Morristown, NJ called The Seeing Eye. Only dogs trained by this school can be officially referred to as Seeing Eye dogs.
 

Hear Again

New Member
Lol, I know what you mean cuz my local ATM DRIVE-THRU has Braille stamped on it!

What is so strange about that? Did you ever consider the fact that blind people take taxis (or may be driven to the bank by family or friends) and may want privacy while conducting an ATM transaction?
 

Hear Again

New Member
And you know what got me--people would see the student in the ahllway, or outside on campus, and would say' "Hi, Freddie" to the dog, but never bother to say "Hi, Matt" to the blind student! How rude can you get? Does disability make peole so nervous that they are comfortable interacting with the animal, but not the person?!!

I'm a deafblind dog guide user (I'm currently working with my second guide dog) and the same thing has happened to me. :( I don't know how many times I've said to people, "You know, there *is* a human being on the other end of this leash."

I've also had people pet my dog without permission. I used to have a sign on my dog's harness which read, "Do not pet me. I am working" but I finally removed it because people constantly ignored the sign. (I've even had sighted friends tell me that people would read the sign, look at me and then pet my dog. Grrr!)

Sometimes I wonder if these people think they can get away with petting my dog because I'm blind. Even after I catch them in the act and request that they stop petting my dog, I've had people say things like, "You're blind. How do you know I'm petting your dog?" at which time I'll reach out, grab their hand or arm and say, "This is how I know."

What they fail to realize is that I can tell my dog is being pet by her reaction both on leash and in harness (it's no different than a sighted person getting to know the behavioral habits of their pet dog), but oftentimes I do not have the time nor the patience to explain this to every person who wishes to pet her.
 

GraysonPeddie

Eye/Hear/Speech Impaired
Premium Member
"You're blind. How do you know I'm petting your dog?"

Wow! I find it insulting when they say things like that... That's downright rude...

I'm thinking that saying "this is how I know" sounds more former and kindly than saying "please don't insult me like that," but you did the right thing by saying "this is how I know" and that people of any kind should not suppose to pet service dogs.

I might be thinking that maybe someone will need to publicly broadcast through the radio and TV about "service dog awareness," but having signs in service dogs are as far as they can do to let everyone know about not petting service dogs and I'm not sure but could be very expensive to broadcast it--but I'm not so sure about that. :p
 

Hear Again

New Member
Wow! I find it insulting when they say things like that... That's downright rude...

I'm thinking that saying "this is how I know" sounds more former and kindly than saying "please don't insult me like that," but you did the right thing by saying "this is how I know" and that people of any kind should not suppose to pet service dogs.

I don't believe in calling unecessary attention to myself because that just gives sighted people a bad impression about the blind and it doesn't help the situation.

I find that when you educate members of the public politely, 90% of the time they'll listen to what you have to say and respect your request (in this case, not petting my dog).


I might be thinking that maybe someone will need to publicly broadcast through the radio and TV about "service dog awareness," but having signs in service dogs are as far as they can do to let everyone know about not petting service dogs and I'm not sure but could be very expensive to broadcast it--but I'm not so sure about that. :p

I think that's a good idea, but as you said, campaigns like that do tend to be very expensive. :(
 

jillio

New Member
I'm a deafblind dog guide user (I'm currently working with my second guide dog) and the same thing has happened to me. :( I don't know how many times I've said to people, "You know, there *is* a human being on the other end of this leash."

I've also had people pet my dog without permission. I used to have a sign on my dog's harness which read, "Do not pet me. I am working" but I finally removed it because people constantly ignored the sign. (I've even had sighted friends tell me that people would read the sign, look at me and then pet my dog. Grrr!)

Sometimes I wonder if these people think they can get away with petting my dog because I'm blind. Even after I catch them in the act and request that they stop petting my dog, I've had people say things like, "You're blind. How do you know I'm petting your dog?" at which time I'll reach out, grab their hand or arm and say, "This is how I know."

What they fail to realize is that I can tell my dog is being pet by her reaction both on leash and in harness (it's no different than a sighted person getting to know the behavioral habits of their pet dog), but oftentimes I do not have the time nor the patience to explain this to every person who wishes to pet her.

Matt would always be very firm with other students who tried to pet and play with Freddy. I haven't had that much experience with service dogs, but I do know the difference between a service dog and a pet. The only time I petted Freddy was at the times that I was perhaps reading and scribing a test for him, and after we had finished up, I would ask permission first, and then give Freddy a quick pat on the head to thank him for being so patient. But when walking with Matt across campus or inside the building, I acted as if Freddy were not a separate being from Matt, just part of who Matt was. I hoped that the other students would learn from my example.
 

Dixie

Farting Snowflakes
Premium Member
Hear Again, I love your response to "How do you know Im petting your dog?"

I think that is very appropriate, especially if they ignored the sign about not petting your dog.

As for the blind finding doors, they feel for the edges of the doorway if they know they are within vincinity of the door or they take in other environmental clues such as sounds, the ground, and or smells.

Spend a day with a blind person you would be surprised how well they are able to get around. Just because they are blind doesnt mean they cant get around well. Guide dogs help them get around at a faster pace from what I am told.
 

Hear Again

New Member
Hear Again, I love your response to "How do you know Im petting your dog?"

I think that is very appropriate, especially if they ignored the sign about not petting your dog.

As for the blind finding doors, they feel for the edges of the doorway if they know they are within vincinity of the door or they take in other environmental clues such as sounds, the ground, and or smells.

Spend a day with a blind person you would be surprised how well they are able to get around. Just because they are blind doesnt mean they cant get around well. Guide dogs help them get around at a faster pace from what I am told.

Dixie,

Yes, in many instances, that's true. Although I consider myself to be a good cane traveler, I get from point A to point B *much* faster with my guide dog than my cane.

I like your statement about blind people and how they get around. :) If truth be told, some blind people have better travel/mobility skills than some sighted people I know! :)
 

Hear Again

New Member
Matt would always be very firm with other students who tried to pet and play with Freddy. I haven't had that much experience with service dogs, but I do know the difference between a service dog and a pet. The only time I petted Freddy was at the times that I was perhaps reading and scribing a test for him, and after we had finished up, I would ask permission first, and then give Freddy a quick pat on the head to thank him for being so patient. But when walking with Matt across campus or inside the building, I acted as if Freddy were not a separate being from Matt, just part of who Matt was. I hoped that the other students would learn from my example.

jillio,

We need more people like you in this world! :D
 

Rollover

Member
[
Spend a day with a blind person you would be surprised how well they are able to get around. Just because they are blind doesnt mean they cant get around well. Guide dogs help them get around at a faster pace from what I am told.[/QUOTE]


This would be a wonderful learning experience! I am one of those who are
not educated or fortunate to know blind people and their ways.
That you all for your input here.
 

Rollover

Member
About people petting the service dogs, what can I say? You know they are animal lovers and not animal abusers. Sure it's wrong but their first instinct is to show affections toward the animal.
 

Tousi

Well-Known Member
What is so strange about that? Did you ever consider the fact that blind people take taxis (or may be driven to the bank by family or friends) and may want privacy while conducting an ATM transaction?


Hadn't thought of that Hear Again and I wasn't being mean when I made that quip and I apologize if you were offended. Absent that and other rare circumstances, it's pretty funny, isn't it? I think the manufacturers of these machines have Braille on them as a matter of course, irregardless of where they are placed.
 
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