Yesterday at the post office ...

Rollover

Member
I went to the local post office yesterday for stamps. While
opening the door I saw a printed sign that says:
NO DOGS ALLOWED BUT SERVICE SEEING EYE DOG

I thought how unfair this really is to the deaf. Then I asked
for stamps but I did not fully understand the price, made a
mistake with 50 cents - 15 cents. Lipreading- it's looks just
about the same. So I told her "I'm sorry
Im deaf" and she just smiled at me like it's okay and gave me
35 cents change for my error.

I wonder if she will think of the door sign and the deaf people.
Thought I would share this with you.
 

akoutsourais

New Member
I went to the local post office yesterday for stamps. While
opening the door I saw a printed sign that says:
NO DOGS ALLOWED BUT SERVICE SEEING EYE DOG

I thought how unfair this really is to the deaf. Then I asked
for stamps but I did not fully understand the price, made a
mistake with 50 cents - 15 cents. Lipreading- it's looks just
about the same. So I told her "I'm sorry
Im deaf" and she just smiled at me like it's okay and gave me
35 cents change for my error.

I wonder if she will think of the door sign and the deaf people.
Thought I would share this with you.

I've noticed a similar sign at my PO. But it said something like "No dogs except for assistance dogs".
 

Interpretrator

Crime fighter
Premium Member
I wonder if she will think of the door sign and the deaf people.

Probably not since a dog would not have been able to help you with the lipreading error.

I believe the laws include ANY service dog (for the deaf, blind, and various medical conditions); the signs just date back to when either people weren't as aware of the various kinds of service dogs, or there weren't as many different kinds. I highly doubt if you went to a PO with a service dog for the deaf you would get any trouble if it had the appropriate clothing or uniform or whatever they call it on a dog.
 

VamPyroX

bloody phreak from hell
You could simply remind them to remove "Seeing Eye" so that it's only "Service Dogs" instead. That would make more sense.

Remember, not everyone is 100% aware of the appropriate way to display rules and not everyone can think of everything.

We don't have that sign at my post office. If dogs were becoming an issue, then they would probably do it. In your case, they probably had dog problems and decided to put up a sign without realizing that there are also other kinds of service dogs.

Even though I'm aware that there are different kinds of service dogs, the first thing that came to my mind was "Seeing Eye Dogs"... until I went to RIT. At RIT, there was a guy who was in a wheelchair and had a service dog for that. There was a woman who also got a service dog. (A few other women had service dogs and I thought they didn't deserve those dogs, but that's another story.) Now, when I think about service dogs... I think about all the possibilities. It comes from education and/or experience.

Give them a chance. Try talking to their supervisor and point it out. :)
 

Dixie

Farting Snowflakes
Premium Member
For one, how would a hearing dog assist you in the PO???

Dont get me wrong I think hearing dogs for the deaf are wonderful - IF USED FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

If I lived by myself yes I would absolutely consider having a service dog to alert me to the door, alarms, and other things in the home. But out and about around town?? You just have to be more aware of your surroundings. a hearing dog cannot be trained to alert you to an ambulance running hot on code 3 behind you and approaching at 60 mph in a 45 mph zone. For one sirens tend to scare the crap out of most dogs, secondly repeated exposure to sirens for training purposes kinda makes the dog deaf...... so then you'll need a service dog for your service dog for you. :giggle:

Back to seriousness - I once again agree with service dogs but you have to use them for the right reasons, not just a free house trained pet that can do a few tricks that you can also take with you to wal-mart. (Sadly there are people out there that do just that).

The best place for a hearing dog to truly function is in the home (including the yard, alerting when someone drives in the driveway) and some cases in an office setting.

You dont need a hearing dog to get pick up your mail - the blind do - especially those that live in bigger cities with high traffic and those that are deafblind. A person with severe epilepsy needs a service dog to alert them to a possible seizure, a seizure can happen at the PO. A person with certain forms of dementia may need one in case they become disoriented and the dog needs to be commanded to lead the person outdoors so they can regain their bearings. (IE a person that happens to have panic attacks in places with lots of people), a person with a muscular problem that can walk but also falls frequently needs a 'paw' in getting back on their feet, a wheelchair bound person that has limited mobility of the upperbody to reach down to pick up things and to manuever. These would be right reasons to have a service dog in the PO.

I dont need to talk to someone to obtain my mail at my PO box - 99% of the time I buy my stamps from the machine, and if I do have to send a package over the counter I can write out what I want and me and the clerk can write back and forth. USPS is very accomodating to the deaf IMO. They have been known to hire deaf people to work for them, I dont see this as a discrimination but perhaps there is a blind person that has a guide dog that uses your PO and another person saw them with their guide dog and thought it would be OK to bring Fido into the PO then the next person sees Fido then they have to bring their Fluffy and it goes on and before you know it everyone is bringing their dog to the PO and they are leaving a mess behind and it gets out of hand. So the postmaster has to post a sign but like aforementioned, probably did not consider the other service dogs out there when he wrote the sign, and was not intentionally discriminating.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate tonight but thats my humble opinion on the whole.
 

VamPyroX

bloody phreak from hell
For one, how would a hearing dog assist you in the PO???

Dont get me wrong I think hearing dogs for the deaf are wonderful - IF USED FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

If I lived by myself yes I would absolutely consider having a service dog to alert me to the door, alarms, and other things in the home. But out and about around town?? You just have to be more aware of your surroundings. a hearing dog cannot be trained to alert you to an ambulance running hot on code 3 behind you and approaching at 60 mph in a 45 mph zone. For one sirens tend to scare the crap out of most dogs, secondly repeated exposure to sirens for training purposes kinda makes the dog deaf...... so then you'll need a service dog for your service dog for you. :giggle:

Back to seriousness - I once again agree with service dogs but you have to use them for the right reasons, not just a free house trained pet that can do a few tricks that you can also take with you to wal-mart. (Sadly there are people out there that do just that).

The best place for a hearing dog to truly function is in the home (including the yard, alerting when someone drives in the driveway) and some cases in an office setting.

You dont need a hearing dog to get pick up your mail - the blind do - especially those that live in bigger cities with high traffic and those that are deafblind. A person with severe epilepsy needs a service dog to alert them to a possible seizure, a seizure can happen at the PO. A person with certain forms of dementia may need one in case they become disoriented and the dog needs to be commanded to lead the person outdoors so they can regain their bearings. (IE a person that happens to have panic attacks in places with lots of people), a person with a muscular problem that can walk but also falls frequently needs a 'paw' in getting back on their feet, a wheelchair bound person that has limited mobility of the upperbody to reach down to pick up things and to manuever. These would be right reasons to have a service dog in the PO.

I dont need to talk to someone to obtain my mail at my PO box - 99% of the time I buy my stamps from the machine, and if I do have to send a package over the counter I can write out what I want and me and the clerk can write back and forth. USPS is very accomodating to the deaf IMO. They have been known to hire deaf people to work for them, I dont see this as a discrimination but perhaps there is a blind person that has a guide dog that uses your PO and another person saw them with their guide dog and thought it would be OK to bring Fido into the PO then the next person sees Fido then they have to bring their Fluffy and it goes on and before you know it everyone is bringing their dog to the PO and they are leaving a mess behind and it gets out of hand. So the postmaster has to post a sign but like aforementioned, probably did not consider the other service dogs out there when he wrote the sign, and was not intentionally discriminating.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate tonight but thats my humble opinion on the whole.
I agree with you.

That's part of what I meant when I mentioned that some of the gals I know here in Rochester that use hearing service dogs.

I think they just want a dog as a companion that they can take anywhere.

I've seen them spoil their dog to a point where their dogs become lazy. They feed these dogs table scraps, candy, take them out to the mall and let people play with it, pet it, etc.

I've actually taken the time to watch these people with these dogs for a while and never actually seen these dog do anything that would benefit the owners. They don't alert the owner of anything in any way. They just walk around... and around... and around. That's it.

You're right. Hearing service dogs are best for the home environment. If you're out of the house, you definitely can deal with things without the dog.

With seeing dogs, that's reasonable for taking it out with you. But with hearing dogs, what for?
 

sara1981

Well-Known Member
mostly stores have policy for not bring to pets in the stores dues respectives as policy i know Post Office have any policy for not bring pets in Post Offices for reasons!

I know Petsmart and petco can allowed bring pets as cats and dogs inside as free dues stores policy some any stores of pets not allowed bring to the stores for reasons but im sure the owners wanted bring pets all the times than nothing.
 

Silentwolfdog

New Member
Other than watching Sue Thomas FBE, I have never seen deaf person with a service dog, so I don't know what their actually function are. I would think for once it's nice to let your guard down in public environment because you have a service dog with you instead of being on guard or alert all the time. I have to do this so I won't cause problem in public or being startled by something because you did not hear it coming (especially car coming behind you in parking lot! I hated that!). After all we only have 180 degree vision, not 360 degree.

The dog would have let you know when it's your turn right? That would be nice in my opinion.
 

Rollover

Member
Each and every one of you have a great point / principal!

One thing = Post office = Government = Double Standards ?

Do all the government signs come out of the same print shop? Just kidding! :cool:
 

Aleser

New Member
For one, how would a hearing dog assist you in the PO???

Dont get me wrong I think hearing dogs for the deaf are wonderful - IF USED FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

If I lived by myself yes I would absolutely consider having a service dog to alert me to the door, alarms, and other things in the home. But out and about around town?? You just have to be more aware of your surroundings. a hearing dog cannot be trained to alert you to an ambulance running hot on code 3 behind you and approaching at 60 mph in a 45 mph zone. For one sirens tend to scare the crap out of most dogs, secondly repeated exposure to sirens for training purposes kinda makes the dog deaf...... so then you'll need a service dog for your service dog for you. :giggle:

Back to seriousness - I once again agree with service dogs but you have to use them for the right reasons, not just a free house trained pet that can do a few tricks that you can also take with you to wal-mart. (Sadly there are people out there that do just that).

The best place for a hearing dog to truly function is in the home (including the yard, alerting when someone drives in the driveway) and some cases in an office setting.

You dont need a hearing dog to get pick up your mail - the blind do - especially those that live in bigger cities with high traffic and those that are deafblind. A person with severe epilepsy needs a service dog to alert them to a possible seizure, a seizure can happen at the PO. A person with certain forms of dementia may need one in case they become disoriented and the dog needs to be commanded to lead the person outdoors so they can regain their bearings. (IE a person that happens to have panic attacks in places with lots of people), a person with a muscular problem that can walk but also falls frequently needs a 'paw' in getting back on their feet, a wheelchair bound person that has limited mobility of the upperbody to reach down to pick up things and to manuever. These would be right reasons to have a service dog in the PO.

I dont need to talk to someone to obtain my mail at my PO box - 99% of the time I buy my stamps from the machine, and if I do have to send a package over the counter I can write out what I want and me and the clerk can write back and forth. USPS is very accomodating to the deaf IMO. They have been known to hire deaf people to work for them, I dont see this as a discrimination but perhaps there is a blind person that has a guide dog that uses your PO and another person saw them with their guide dog and thought it would be OK to bring Fido into the PO then the next person sees Fido then they have to bring their Fluffy and it goes on and before you know it everyone is bringing their dog to the PO and they are leaving a mess behind and it gets out of hand. So the postmaster has to post a sign but like aforementioned, probably did not consider the other service dogs out there when he wrote the sign, and was not intentionally discriminating.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate tonight but thats my humble opinion on the whole.


I disagree. Part of keeping any service dog, no matter it's function, trained means constantly exposing it to different working situations. Hearing dogs, like all service dogs, are helpful anywhere. As the law allows for any and ALL dogs that mitigate a disability to be taken anywhere, we should not attempt to draw a line because of how "helpful" or the like. I wouldn't -need- a guide dog to get my mail, and no blind person does. That's why you go O&M. The fact that I don't require it doesn't take away from the fact that I am legally entitled to it.

--

As an added thought, many have mentioned people not fully "working" their dogs or spoiling them/ treating them like a pet. That is wrong, and not using a service dog as it should be. In that case the person should be instructed on what to do, to stop the dog from going out of training, and reminded that it's not a pet, it's a working animal.
 

pek1

New Member
Other than watching Sue Thomas FBI, I have never seen deaf person with a service dog, so I don't know what their actually function is.

I have seen the show a few times, but in order to gainfully understand what the hearing dog is doing for Sue, the camera needs to zoom in on the dog; right now, they just show Sue's reaction to the dog.
 

pek1

New Member
I agree with you.

That's part of what I meant when I mentioned that some of the gals I know here in Rochester that use hearing service dogs.

I think they just want a dog as a companion that they can take anywhere.

I've seen them spoil their dog to a point where their dogs become lazy. They feed these dogs table scraps, candy, take them out to the mall and let people play with it, pet it, etc.

I've actually taken the time to watch these people with these dogs for a while and never actually seen these dog do anything that would benefit the owners. They don't alert the owner of anything in any way. They just walk around... and around... and around. That's it.

You're right. Hearing service dogs are best for the home environment. If you're out of the house, you definitely can deal with things without the dog.

With seeing dogs, that's reasonable for taking it out with you. But with hearing dogs, what for?


VamPyroX,

The biggest problem I have is that people do everything and anything to either distract the dog or want to pet it . . . all the time! If I say 'no,' I get a funny look by people. If I say 'yes,' I get the 50 questions . . . questions that some are actually none of their business for asking. If we, with hearing dogs, say that, people give us hassle. Security is called, the police is called . . . the whole nine yards. Touching my dog, especially without permission, is equivalent to molesting me. NO, YOU CANNOT PET MY DOG!

I've also seen people distract my dog to the point that I had to tell the people, "I am NOT responsible for dog bites!" You would not believe what some people do and I view them as nothing more than a lawsuit waiting to happen. If and when I say something, I get the "fuck you" look from them. I'm generally pretty nice about allowing people pet Snickers, but I am also seeing people who pet her without asking me, especially when she has her blaze orange cape on. I get the gawks and stares, as well as the rude questions to boot.
 

pek1

New Member
You don't need a hearing dog to get pick up your mail - the blind do - especially those that live in bigger cities with high traffic and those that are deafblind. A person with severe epilepsy needs a service dog to alert them to a possible seizure, a seizure can happen at the PO. A person with certain forms of dementia may need one in case they become disoriented and the dog needs to be commanded to lead the person . . . so they can regain their bearings (ie a person that happens to have panic attacks in places with lots of people), a person with a muscular problem that can walk but also falls frequently needs a 'paw' in getting back on their feet, a wheelchair bound person that has limited mobility of the upperbody to reach down to pick up things and to manuever. These would be right reasons to have a service dog in the PO.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate tonight but that's my humble opinion on the whole.

Dixie,

And allow me to be equally pragmatic, if you please. A seizure alert dog's job is precisely what you said, but it doesn't necessarily mean being led outdoors. The dog's job, just like a police officer, is NOT to be interrupted under any circumstance. A seizure is for a short amount of time and the dog is to remain next to the handler. If the person needs to go to the hospital, the dog rides along, regardless.

An acquaintance of mine had a seizure alert dog and, when in ER, the dog was going nuts. The dog was summoned immediately to the handler in ER and settled down once reunited.

As for being the "devil's advocate:" My audiologist told me, with regard to Snickers, my hearing dog, being with me at all times, "Every little bit helps." With that said, I don't recall seeing you in the office when she told me this or a memo being sent to you with me receiving the cc portion of it. In YOUR opinion is just that: Your opinion. My dog has been trained by me and the only "table scraps" she receives is pizza and popcorn, as well as french fries when I go to McDonald's. Those are the only people food she has.

No smiley face for you today.
 

pek1

New Member
As an added thought, many have mentioned people not fully "working" their dogs or spoiling them/ treating them like a pet. That is wrong, and not using a service dog as it should be. In that case the person should be instructed on what to do, to stop the dog from going out of training and reminded that it's not a pet, it's a working animal.

I concur. But, how do you tell people not to pet your dog? Take a look at my earlier comments.
 

Aleser

New Member
Does the dog wear a cape or jacket that -clearly- states you shouldn't pet it? I think that might be helpful, if it's currently only wearing identification as a service dog, or has a smaller (thus harder to notice) notice not to touch.

On the other hand, being consistent in the "don't pet him/her" is also important- it doesn't allow people to get the impression that petting your dog is okay, so petting ALL service dogs is okay.

I think it's mostly a matter of educating others. Most people still seem to be under the impression that all service dogs are "seeing eye dogs" so they don't really understand how to act around them.
 

Dixie

Farting Snowflakes
Premium Member
Dixie,

And allow me to be equally pragmatic, if you please. A seizure alert dog's job is precisely what you said, but it doesn't necessarily mean being led outdoors. The dog's job, just like a police officer, is NOT to be interrupted under any circumstance. A seizure is for a short amount of time and the dog is to remain next to the handler. If the person needs to go to the hospital, the dog rides along, regardless.

An acquaintance of mine had a seizure alert dog and, when in ER, the dog was going nuts. The dog was summoned immediately to the handler in ER and settled down once reunited.

As for being the "devil's advocate:" My audiologist told me, with regard to Snickers, my hearing dog, being with me at all times, "Every little bit helps." With that said, I don't recall seeing you in the office when she told me this or a memo being sent to you with me receiving the cc portion of it. In YOUR opinion is just that: Your opinion. My dog has been trained by me and the only "table scraps" she receives is pizza and popcorn, as well as french fries when I go to McDonald's. Those are the only people food she has.

No smiley face for you today.

Well darn it, I guess I'll have to go with the frowny face for today, :lol:

I think you misread my post - I did not say that a seizure alert do was to supposed to lead the person outside, the dog simply alerts the person that they need to get into a seizure ready position and wait. You see these dogs typically associated with people who have grand mal seizures - the croppy floppers so to speak.

When I said for people with certain forms of DEMENTIA if they become disoriented with their surroundings or have severe panic attacks the dog is to lead the person outside. I do know of one man that has amnesia, he had his first episode when he left his home one evening to take an evening walk - he was missing for nearly 30days and has no clear recollection of that time. All he remembers is that he woke up one morning and realized who he was and had to figure out how to get back home. He survived by eating out of trash bins and swiping ketchup packets from mcdonalds. Now that he has been properly diagnosed he carrys a cell phone with GPS embedded in it along with having a guide dog that should he become disoriented again the dog is to have him sit down and he is to press the 911 button on his phone and the police come and take him and his dog to a hospital. The dog is there to keep him from wandering the streets aimlessly. He often trains the dog by pretending to become disoriented and they go through the drill of what is supposed to happen should he have another amnesiac attack.

There are people that are known to have strokes and TIAs (trans ischemic attacks aka - mini-stroke). If the person becomes suddenly unconscious the dog has a special phone with a large button on it that is a direct dial to an ambulance service. IF the person is out in public - the dog stays with the owner.

There are people with certain mental disabilities where they have a service dog to keep them within a certain range, the dog is trained to NOT go beyond a certain point, this helps the person with limited skills to become somewhat independent but will never be totally independent and this frees up would be home health workers to help other people.

I think you got your dementia and your epilepsy confused, they are different though may present similar symptoms in some cases especially in petite mal seizures.
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
Wait, lets think this way, sometimes service dogs are good for deaf when in car, that way dog can alert of anything surround and alert the deaf driver. That is good reason, okay here is the problem...

Suppose it is summer and the sun is high noon beautiful day and damn hot... Is it OK to leave that poor dog in the car while PO disallow the service dog in the air conditioned office? Just think about it...

There are plenty of reason that we do not see at all, and assume the wrong idea.


For one, how would a hearing dog assist you in the PO???

Dont get me wrong I think hearing dogs for the deaf are wonderful - IF USED FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

If I lived by myself yes I would absolutely consider having a service dog to alert me to the door, alarms, and other things in the home. But out and about around town?? You just have to be more aware of your surroundings. a hearing dog cannot be trained to alert you to an ambulance running hot on code 3 behind you and approaching at 60 mph in a 45 mph zone. For one sirens tend to scare the crap out of most dogs, secondly repeated exposure to sirens for training purposes kinda makes the dog deaf...... so then you'll need a service dog for your service dog for you. :giggle:

Back to seriousness - I once again agree with service dogs but you have to use them for the right reasons, not just a free house trained pet that can do a few tricks that you can also take with you to wal-mart. (Sadly there are people out there that do just that).

The best place for a hearing dog to truly function is in the home (including the yard, alerting when someone drives in the driveway) and some cases in an office setting.

You dont need a hearing dog to get pick up your mail - the blind do - especially those that live in bigger cities with high traffic and those that are deafblind. A person with severe epilepsy needs a service dog to alert them to a possible seizure, a seizure can happen at the PO. A person with certain forms of dementia may need one in case they become disoriented and the dog needs to be commanded to lead the person outdoors so they can regain their bearings. (IE a person that happens to have panic attacks in places with lots of people), a person with a muscular problem that can walk but also falls frequently needs a 'paw' in getting back on their feet, a wheelchair bound person that has limited mobility of the upperbody to reach down to pick up things and to manuever. These would be right reasons to have a service dog in the PO.

I dont need to talk to someone to obtain my mail at my PO box - 99% of the time I buy my stamps from the machine, and if I do have to send a package over the counter I can write out what I want and me and the clerk can write back and forth. USPS is very accomodating to the deaf IMO. They have been known to hire deaf people to work for them, I dont see this as a discrimination but perhaps there is a blind person that has a guide dog that uses your PO and another person saw them with their guide dog and thought it would be OK to bring Fido into the PO then the next person sees Fido then they have to bring their Fluffy and it goes on and before you know it everyone is bringing their dog to the PO and they are leaving a mess behind and it gets out of hand. So the postmaster has to post a sign but like aforementioned, probably did not consider the other service dogs out there when he wrote the sign, and was not intentionally discriminating.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate tonight but thats my humble opinion on the whole.
 
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