Writing in asl syntax / grammar

cjg

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
I have a serious question regarding folks that write in asl syntax or grammar.

Why do you do it ?


If you can read and understand regular english syntax / grammar well enough to read and understand these forums , why write text using such an imprecise style?

Honestly , without the context of a face , and the actual gestures , it can get confusing as to what someone is trying to say.

Please don't take this as being insulting or trying to start a flame war or argument. I am just trying to understand.
 

caz12

New Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
9,292
Reaction score
5
is asl your first langage it bsl for me but theory the same.some use asl grammer smitre best to explain it
 

BecLak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
58
Wirelessly posted

Why not? This is a Deaf forum after all.
 

cjg

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Its just that its obvious that those that post here can understand and can read normal english grammar / syntax.

Why write your text in such an imprecise way , it can be very easily be misinterpreted.

its just that it looses SO MUCH when written. To me , it can get frustrating when trying to figure out exactly what someone is REALLY trying to say.
 

rockin'robin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
24,434
Reaction score
544
Its just that its obvious that those that post here can understand and can read normal english grammar / syntax.

Why write your text in such an imprecise way , it can be very easily be misinterpreted.

its just that it looses SO MUCH when written. To me , it can get frustrating when trying to figure out exactly what someone is REALLY trying to say.

Well, would you rather those that don't have/type/read "normal" grammar/syntax to just go away?....Gotta admit that the reason why a lot of deafies don't come around is that they feel their English would be made fun of....And they, too, have their opinions, feelings and what-not...just have a problem expressing it in normal English. But kudos to them that at least try!

No one is perfect....look above at ur post...lots of grammar errors....
 

Bottesini

Old Deaf Ranter
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
43,648
Reaction score
504
Exactly as a French Speaker may understand reading English, bit still have definite clues of French grammar structure in their writing.
 

Bottesini

Old Deaf Ranter
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
43,648
Reaction score
504
Its just that its obvious that those that post here can understand and can read normal english grammar / syntax.

Why write your text in such an imprecise way , it can be very easily be misinterpreted.

its just that it looses SO MUCH when written. To me , it can get frustrating when trying to figure out exactly what someone is REALLY trying to say.

Oh, Grau. You misspell like a hearing person.....
 

cjg

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Ok .. just forget I even asked the question.

Its obvious this is going to degrade into some sort of arguments.

I am simply trying to understand , and its already devolved into insults.
 

Bottesini

Old Deaf Ranter
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
43,648
Reaction score
504
Ok .. just forget I even asked the question.

Its obvious this is going to degrade into some sort of arguments.

I am simply trying to understand , and its already devolved into insults.

No insults at all. We just point out the problem of being critical of others.

A person who doesn't know the difference between looses and loses when it is an essential word in a statement they are making is hard to take seriously.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
54,906
Reaction score
1,515
I think the problem is, writing in ASL syntax is incomplete. The word order is there, and the words are there, but the non-manual markers are not there. Unless someone actually types in descriptions of what the eyebrows, nostrils, shoulders, tongue, etc., are doing, and whether or not the words are repeated (noun/verb, quantity), or show the direction (from me-to you), then some of the meaning is lost.

It's the same problem in reverse when a hearing person, newbie signer, knows sign vocabulary but strings it together without non-manual markers or facial expression. You can get the gist of it (that is, the general meaning) but you can't get the full meaning with all its richness and detail. It also can be confusing, such as was it a question statement, was it a continuous action, was it serious, etc.

As to why someone writes in ASL, well, that's personal. Each person who does that has to give his or her own reasons. No one can answer for another on that.
 

Lau2046

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
417
Its just that its obvious that those that post here can understand and can read normal english grammar / syntax.

Why write your text in such an imprecise way , it can be very easily be misinterpreted.

its just that it looses SO MUCH when written. To me , it can get frustrating when trying to figure out exactly what someone is REALLY trying to say.

I agree. It's like studying Russian in Moscow and deciding that you actually hate the language, but you think the vocab is interesting, so you merge it with Romanian, using their word order...and you expect it to make sense. Then one day you're sitting in an Internet cafe that's a Russian equivalent of "Starbucks" and someone on a blog you frequent says "I can't understand what you write in Russian. What is your primary language?" Do I tell them to go to Hell, because I don't write for them anyway, or do I want to open my posts to others so they can understand it?

Helen Keller's writing was quite stirring and she was beyond amazing, so it's not like people can't learn grammar if they don't hear. If there are those in the deaf community that choose to exclude hearing people - that's their prejudice.

Laura
 

cjg

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Thank you reba and laura , you seem to understand the question I am asking.

It would be great to hear from someone that writes in asl grammar to explain why exactly they decided to write the way that they do. Especially when they have already shown that they can understand normal english grammar. After all , this forum is mostly written using english grammar.

Is it because its easier ? is it an attempt to exclude hearing people ? Its it just to be different ?
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
54,906
Reaction score
1,515
I agree. It's like studying Russian in Moscow and deciding that you actually hate the language, but you think the vocab is interesting, so you merge it with Romanian, using their word order...and you expect it to make sense. Then one day you're sitting in an Internet cafe that's a Russian equivalent of "Starbucks" and someone on a blog you frequent says "I can't understand what you write in Russian. What is your primary language?" Do I tell them to go to Hell, because I don't write for them anyway, or do I want to open my posts to others so they can understand it?
I don't think your analogy fits the situation of writing English in ASL syntax. Most people who happen to write English in ASL syntax aren't doing it out of some kind of hatred for English, or creative experiment of mixing languages for fun. It's usually a person who lives comfortably in one language expressing himself or herself not so comfortably in a second language. It happens not just with deaf people. It happens with people who speak more than one language, too.

Helen Keller's writing was quite stirring and she was beyond amazing, so it's not like people can't learn grammar if they don't hear. If there are those in the deaf community that choose to exclude hearing people - that's their prejudice.
Oh, please! :roll:
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
54,906
Reaction score
1,515
Thank you reba and laura , you seem to understand the question I am asking.

It would be great to hear from someone that writes in asl grammar to explain why exactly they decided to write the way that they do. Especially when they have already shown that they can understand normal english grammar. After all , this forum is mostly written using english grammar.
Just because someone understands what is written in English doesn't mean that they can write equally well in English. Most people who learn a second language are better skilled in one mode than another. That is, some English-speaking people can understand spoken Spanish but can't speak it. Some hearing people can sign ASL like the wind but have lousy receptive skills. Even hearing people communicating in English can often read and comprehend at a higher level than what they can themselves can write. It's nothing peculiar to just Deaf people using ASL.

Is it because its easier ? is it an attempt to exclude hearing people ? Its it just to be different ?
Should I be asking you why you are lazy about capitalization, spacing, word choice, and punctuation? Or are you just trying to be different, like e.e. cummings?
 

Accepting

New Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
Dyslexia

Might also consider some on here could be dyslexic. Tho, they read well enough to understand, but writing can be an issue still. May have nothing to do with deaf people using ASL
 

cjg

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Just because someone understands what is written in English doesn't mean that they can write equally well in English. Most people who learn a second language are better skilled in one mode than another. That is, some English-speaking people can understand spoken Spanish but can't speak it. Some hearing people can sign ASL like the wind but have lousy receptive skills. Even hearing people communicating in English can often read and comprehend at a higher level than what they can themselves can write. It's nothing peculiar to just Deaf people using ASL.


Should I be asking you why you are lazy about capitalization, spacing, word choice, and punctuation? Or are you just trying to be different, like e.e. cummings?

I think I understand what you are saying. And I do see evidence of this in other situations then just this forum. It is just very frustrating at times. It can be VERY hard to understand someone with all of the clues. Its often as if half the meaning is missing, and then I am forced to work and try to understand. Perhaps if someone was to come up with a standard way to convey the non manual markers in text form. Is there any sort of conventions ? I have seen QQ used to signify question before , but I haven't seen any of the other markers. Or at least anything that I thought made sense.


Thank you for mentioning me in the same sentence as him. I really am not worthy of that. He was an artist. I am just a lazy deaf guy that clicks the submit button before a complete and proper proof read. :D
 

impaired

New Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
263
Reaction score
1
Isn't ASL a "sign" language? If one is to write in ASL, wouldn't they "draw" some form of symbols and add contextual information relating to the inclusion of body movement, rather than translating to English?
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
54,906
Reaction score
1,515
Isn't ASL a "sign" language? If one is to write in ASL, wouldn't they "draw" some form of symbols and add contextual information relating to the inclusion of body movement, rather than translating to English?
The equivalent of a written form of ASL is the video recording. Written coded versions are for educational or research purposes only.

No, ASL is not a "sign" language in the sense that you're using. Good grief, it's not semaphore!
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
54,906
Reaction score
1,515
I've said my piece of explanation. I'm not going to get involved with any discussion that leans towards denigrating ASL as a language, or that criticizes others in their language choices. Serious linguistic discussion is one thing. Condescending insinuations are another.

:iough:
 
Top