When a Child Says No

shel90

shel90

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I know of this situation regarding a 10 year old who is profoundly deaf in both ears. She was exposed to speech therapy as a baby/toddler..didnt work so she is fluent in ASL. Literacy skills are fine. She has a great concept of the world around her and learns new concepts easily. Very happy and social with her friends both deaf and hearing.

Ok..for some reason, her parents decided to get her a CI so she is scheduled to get one soon. At first, she was excited until she saw the pics of the actual surgery and understood that she will need intensive speech therapy afterwards. She has been begging her parents about not getting one and been really crying a lot about it. She begged us deaf adults to convince her parents to cancel it. It seems she doesnt want it but the parents, like many of the parents here, say it is their decision. Now, I really think that is wrong cuz in the 10 years, they have never really bothered to learn more than a few basic signs and keep saying they are too busy and dont have time. This girl is very very bright and her knowledge is so advanced considering she is from a hearing family and having been language deprived in the first few years of her life due to AVT therapy. Once she was placed in an ASL program, she just took off. It is apparent that she is happy with who she is so I think it is selfish of the parents to say that they are doing it because they want her to learn to speak so they can communicate with her. I was really disgusted by that..I mean, why now? If she is happy as she is, leave it! That's my opinion.

If a child says no, is it her right or the parents' rights to their decisions?

This is not a statement to bash other parents here but a new situation and an interesting one that I have never thought of when debating about "Letting the Child Decide"
 
Shel90,

You know it should be child right to have this done not the parents. If the child say no then the parents should respect that. I agreed with you that is not fair that the parents never learn sign langauage in 10 yrs. if she is happy the way she is then there is no reason for her to have a ci. you should do something fast like maybe you should report to cps because child should have right when it comes to big decison that like this has no turn back.

Lisa
 
Good thread, shel.

I feel the same way as you do. It should be the child's decision if she doesn't want to have a CI, not her parents or anyone else! If she is happy with who she is then leave her alone!
 
child's parents are fault? NO!!! i believe who is Hearing Clinic because whoever is doctor want offer to child's parents and told child that can hear better and learn more speech than full deaf that is why parents believe and think come true. that is BULLSHIT! many parents dont know much about Deaf. i knew it, 3 of my friends had CI but damn FAILED!!:mad2: 3 of them cant talk well for over 7 years.
come on all parents must go any schools for the deaf first check all students in classes whatever then parents can right ask few students how they feel about CI? students can warning to parents about how is dangerous effect/ cause damages also didnt help hear better. all parents will more understand than any Doctors before right decision... got it......:deal: :deal: AM I RIGHT HUH?
 
Shel... it is very good thread.... it is in a form of child abuse if a child is forced to have CI..... It is child s right to say no... she knows she will not successful learning to speak... she did tried in the past... should report to the social worker.... she has every right to say no to CI.. she knows the speech threrapy will not successful for her... due to her past experiences... let her be happy with ASL.... she feels comfortable with it...
 
starship winger said:
child's parents are fault? NO!!! i believe who is Hearing Clinic because whoever is doctor want offer to child's parents and told child that can hear better and learn more speech than full deaf that is why parents believe and think come true. that is BULLSHIT! many parents dont know much about Deaf. i knew it, 3 of my friends had CI but damn FAILED!!:mad2: 3 of them cant talk well for over 7 years.
come on all parents must go any schools for the deaf first check all students in classes whatever then parents can right ask few students how they feel about CI? students can warning to parents about how is dangerous effect/ cause damages also didnt help hear better. all parents will more understand than any Doctors before right decision... got it......:deal: :deal: AM I RIGHT HUH?
Click to expand...

In this situation, the drs are not at fault cuz the parents are the ones who wanted the CIs against the drs advice so they went to another CI center in which the approval was granted. That's why I think the parents are at fault this time for being stubborn.

Anyways, to other ADers..cant report to CPS cuz getting an implant is, in their eyes or criteria, is not considered child abuse. Remember, many CPS workers have the "hearing" view and more likely to see CIs as a cure for deafness.
 
Shel,

I thought all child candidates and their families have to talk to a social worker. If the social worker asked the child if they wanted the CI and the child said no wouldn't that be reason for the social worker not to recommend the child gets a CI? The parents of this child also have unrealistic expectations which should be another reason not to recommend a CI.
I hate to think what the parents are going be like if in fact the child does not learn to speak.

Do CI centers ever check with a childs teacher to get a recommendation from them?
 
That's so wrong!!! They should leave the child alone. I always wanted to ban against the parent's decision for CI on children.
 
I am wondering what's the law in area where the child live. That might play a role in child not getting a surgery. It various from state to state I think.

This is a tough position child is being putted in.
 
set2 you took the words right out of my mouth.I dont think they would get past the social worker.From what Ive heard you have to be really willing to work hard with your CI.If this poor child tells them she's refusing to work at it and doesnt want it that I would think should put a stop to it.there is a difference between being afraid of the surgery and flat out not wanting the thing and a good s.w. should be able to tell the difference.Shame on those parents for not being willing to learn to communicate better with their daughter!
 
I am training to be a social worker, so I might ask some of my professors about this situation. I am curious to see what action can be taken. But as I recall in one of my class, it is really up to the law. If the law say that it's parent's decision then the child have no choice. It's same with some situations where doctor can't give children blood to save child's life because of parents' religion. Sometimes social worker would step in and do something different, sort of like "bend the rule" and allow doctor do it for limited period of time. Medical social worker really got it tough. Situations like this is really complex. Because to some people, it looks like parents are doing a right thing by give a child CI to help the child. To other side, it looks like they are doing the harm to the child because it is against child's wish.

If it was me, I would follow child's wish because child is the one who will be affect by the outcome, not the parent, not anyone else. So why make the child suffer, since it doesn't really hurt the child by not having a CI or save child's life.

shel90 Can I copy and paste this situation and show it to my professor? You brought up a good question, and something I might have to come across during my social work career. I want to be prepared for it.
 
I experienced my friends´s feeling toward their parents about CI issues what and how they were being pulled by their parents to surgery when they were 9 to 12 years old. I posted my friends´s experiences here since 2004 to last year.

I will repeat my friend´s experiences here later.

All what I want to say is the parents who pulled their children without see their feeling is the SELFISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That´s why I support children´s choice. Children´s happiness is mainly matter to me.
 
shel.. good thread.. however i'm aware that most clinic require to have physicology (sp?) to see if they really want to have it implanted or not.. so i believe ( if that clinic requires it) talk to her.. and find out she doesn't want it then they will decline it and not implant her...

the main purpose to implant people is if they're willing to do the work and willing to face the risk, and willing to face the expections.

this is what i have done with i was trying out for candidate.
 
shel90 said:
I know of this situation regarding a 10 year old who is profoundly deaf in both ears. She was exposed to speech therapy as a baby/toddler..didnt work so she is fluent in ASL. Literacy skills are fine. She has a great concept of the world around her and learns new concepts easily. Very happy and social with her friends both deaf and hearing.
Click to expand...

My opinion based on what you have described is that she is only likely to get limited benefit from a CI anyway - she has passed that window where her auditory system could respond from the input of a CI. At best she would probably only get environmental sounds and that's if she doesn't experience headaches etc.

Considering this situation, she would require intensive therapy and commitment to get benefit from a CI. It would be a waste of time for the parents to go ahead with the CI, considering that she is very opposed to it and will be resentful from the start. She will not be motivated to take part in it. The research I recently posted from Gallaudet said that people implanted when adolescents or near have the worst results with CIs and have the most negative feelings about it.

I think that 10 years old is old enough for parents to listen to their child's feelings and indeed they should. However, when we have debated this before, we were discussing much younger children, who are unable to make such a decision. Usually, when a CI is implanted on a child, it usually takes place much younger than 10 years of age.

I also think it's another argument that if you are going to do a CI, the younger the better because it avoids the stress and worry that older children feel when they see graphic pictures, hear exaggerated stories and so on. I"m sure that we've all felt more scared about going to the dentist after sharing stories about "the great big needle" with our school friends.
 
yeah......older then age five should be decision made by both kid AND parents.
 
shel90 said:
If a child says no, is it her right or the parents' rights to their decisions?
Click to expand...

It should be the child's decision, not the parents. You know I always believe in individual choice, my answer stays the same and it'll always will. :thumb:

Parents should respect the child's choice, it's the child's ears for gawd sake.
 
shel90 said:
In this situation, the drs are not at fault cuz the parents are the ones who wanted the CIs against the drs advice so they went to another CI center in which the approval was granted. That's why I think the parents are at fault this time for being stubborn.

Anyways, to other ADers..cant report to CPS cuz getting an implant is, in their eyes or criteria, is not considered child abuse. Remember, many CPS workers have the "hearing" view and more likely to see CIs as a cure for deafness.
Click to expand...

I'm going to open this debate up.....

WHile I do think that the parents and child should be getting some consuling prior to making this decision may I ask where you got the information that should basically be concidered private?

How do you know that one clinic disapproved implantation and the 2nd on approved?

Did the parents tell you? the child?

Just curious since I believe that it is a private medical matter and should not be bandied about on the internet just because you disagree with the parents.

I also find that the 'first the child agreed' "At first, she was excited until she saw the pics of the actual surgery and understood that she will need intensive speech therapy afterwards. She has been begging her parents about not getting one and been really crying a lot about it. She begged us deaf adults to convince her parents to cancel it" also since you know so much about the whole thing who gave her the information? a friend? a deaf adult? her parents? (whom you say cannot adequetly communicate with her since they aren't fluent in ASL?) a social worker at the clinic? was it presented so she would understand it by someone nutral in the whole issue or was it presented by a fellow deaf person who is anti ci?

hey if we're going to rip some parents apart maybe we need to have an indepth discussion on who is telling the child what? JMO of course. have at it. I for one hope the child and her parents talk to someone who is knowledgable and neutral, who will interpet issues to the child truthfully and not emotionally on the issue and they can make the appropriate decision for her. Ci's aren't for everyone but having read some posts here it really sounds at times like the anti's can be just as bad as the pros, there is so much misinformation that can be used to scare a child into thinking that she doesn't want it. sigh.

good luck to the child and her family and really I do find it very disturbing that personal information is being talked about being presented to a professer in a class about a minor child whom the person presenting it would have no personal knowledge or right to talk about. The person starting this thread does NOT have the right to grant permission for this child to be discussed in a classroom discussion.
 
set2 said:
Shel,

I thought all child candidates and their families have to talk to a social worker. If the social worker asked the child if they wanted the CI and the child said no wouldn't that be reason for the social worker not to recommend the child gets a CI? The parents of this child also have unrealistic expectations which should be another reason not to recommend a CI.
I hate to think what the parents are going be like if in fact the child does not learn to speak.

Do CI centers ever check with a childs teacher to get a recommendation from them?[/QUOTE]


I am a teacher and as far as I know, we have no contact nor collaboration with the CI centers. My work is trying to set one up with John Hopkins but so far there is a strong resistance because we are ASL-orienated even though we have changed our program to both ASL and oral. I dont know why there is a resistance...would be nice if they contact the teachers. This child is not a student at our school. I have many friends who work in the deaf programs at the public schools and at other deaf schools and I was told of this situation by my friend cuz she wanted my opinion. I am not sure what to make of this.
Click to expand...
 
Silentwolfdog said:
I am training to be a social worker, so I might ask some of my professors about this situation. I am curious to see what action can be taken. But as I recall in one of my class, it is really up to the law. If the law say that it's parent's decision then the child have no choice. It's same with some situations where doctor can't give children blood to save child's life because of parents' religion. Sometimes social worker would step in and do something different, sort of like "bend the rule" and allow doctor do it for limited period of time. Medical social worker really got it tough. Situations like this is really complex. Because to some people, it looks like parents are doing a right thing by give a child CI to help the child. To other side, it looks like they are doing the harm to the child because it is against child's wish.

If it was me, I would follow child's wish because child is the one who will be affect by the outcome, not the parent, not anyone else. So why make the child suffer, since it doesn't really hurt the child by not having a CI or save child's life.

shel90 Can I copy and paste this situation and show it to my professor? You brought up a good question, and something I might have to come across during my social work career. I want to be prepared for it.
Click to expand...


Sure, u can copy and paste it. Yea, it is interesting and one I have never encountered before. Heck, many of the students who go to my school are starting to want CIs to be like their friends who have CIs. They are begging their parents to get one. LOL!
 
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